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  • #16
    Originally posted by SM19
    Folks, please don't mistake quantity at DE for quality. Yes, we have a lot of DEs on the roster, but do you feel comfortable that any of them can get to the quarterback consistently? I certainly don't.
    We still do not know about Kenard lang. He supposedly has been avereging 5 sacks per season. That is pretty good.

    Why cant we just get an incrdible good passrushing DT to replace Myers.
    Kind of like Warren Sapp.
    Thats just as good as a DE.
    Besides DEs are more valued than DTs so we should be able to get a good pass rusing DT easliy

    B-Marsh owning Al Harris(Aka: the supposed most physical corner in the league)

    Mock Draft:

    **If Ellis/Dorsey fall**

    1) Dorsey or Ellis(whoever falls)
    2) Devin Thomas
    4) Frank Okam
    4) Beau Bell

    **If Ellis/Dorsey dont fall**

    1) Desean Jackson
    2) Pat Sims or Trevor Laws(whoever falls)
    4) Frank Okam
    4) Beau Bell

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by dogfish
      please, don't tell me they are LBs (yes, thanks, i am aware that pitt runs a 3-4) and then ask what D-line sack specialists they have-- you know as well as i do that 3-4 DLs aren't the primary pass rushers in that scheme! what does it matter where the rush comes from as long as you are getting it?! did it matter to jake that those were LBs knocking him down or ripping the ball away from him?
      Do we win the superbowl next year with a first round d-lineman, and which one?
      Being one win away from the superbowl we know that a small piece is missing, so a d-lineman in this years first round would take us to the superbowl? I just dont see a d-lineman as a rookie getting substantial playing time, and then being rotated in and out of our scheme. I'm sorry I do not understand how.
      CCZUU LUV

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by broncs2bowl
        We still do not know about Kenard lang. He supposedly has been avereging 5 sacks per season. That is pretty good.

        Why cant we just get an incrdible good passrushing DT to replace Myers.
        Kind of like Warren Sapp.
        Thats just as good as a DE.
        Besides DEs are more valued than DTs so we should be able to get a good pass rusing DT easliy

        lang averages 4 sacks per year-- if he notches that many next year it will replace what we lost with pryce, and unless someone else steps up big time, we will have the pathetic 25-30 sacks we had last year. . . the simple fact is that none of the DEs on our roster are quality pass rushers-- not one of them has the explosive first step, athleticism, change of direction skills, repertoire of moves, straight-line speed or closing burst to be a dominant pass rusher. at best, they are more straight-ahead bull rushers who can overpower guys on occasion and get some pressure, but none of them have the physical skills to get after the QB on a consistent basis. . .

        you're right that a good interior pass rusher would help-- but only if the coaching staff let's him play one-gap and penetrate, instead of merely occupying blocker like our DTs do now. . . i'm all for adding a good DT on the 1st day (see my draft wish list), but even if we get one who is a good rusher, the best interior rushers may get 8-10 sacks tops, while the best edge rushers can get in the neighborhood of 10-15, and even more importantly will get more consistent pressure. . . i would love to see us add a good DT prospect, but i wouldn't expect it to solve our pas rush problems-- we need a guy with the pure speed off the edge to finish the deal.
        Officially Objectified by the GPA

        rest in peace, darrent williams and damien nash-- you will be missed!!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by dogfish
          lang averages 4 sacks per year-- if he notches that many next year it will replace what we lost with pryce, and unless someone else steps up big time, we will have the pathetic 25-30 sacks we had last year. . . the simple fact is that none of the DEs on our roster are quality pass rushers-- not one of them has the explosive first step, athleticism, change of direction skills, repertoire of moves, straight-line speed or closing burst to be a dominant pass rusher. at best, they are more straight-ahead bull rushers who can overpower guys on occasion and get some pressure, but none of them have the physical skills to get after the QB on a consistent basis. . .

          you're right that a good interior pass rusher would help-- but only if the coaching staff let's him play one-gap and penetrate, instead of merely occupying blocker like our DTs do now. . . i'm all for adding a good DT on the 1st day (see my draft wish list), but even if we get one who is a good rusher, the best interior rushers may get 8-10 sacks tops, while the best edge rushers can get in the neighborhood of 10-15, and even more importantly will get more consistent pressure. . . i would love to see us add a good DT prospect, but i wouldn't expect it to solve our pas rush problems-- we need a guy with the pure speed off the edge to finish the deal.
          I agree with you totally. But I still dont think that any of the DEs in the draft are gonna come in and get the job done.
          Are there any free agent DEs out there?

          B-Marsh owning Al Harris(Aka: the supposed most physical corner in the league)

          Mock Draft:

          **If Ellis/Dorsey fall**

          1) Dorsey or Ellis(whoever falls)
          2) Devin Thomas
          4) Frank Okam
          4) Beau Bell

          **If Ellis/Dorsey dont fall**

          1) Desean Jackson
          2) Pat Sims or Trevor Laws(whoever falls)
          4) Frank Okam
          4) Beau Bell

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by phatbronco
            Do we win the superbowl next year with a first round d-lineman, and which one?
            Being one win away from the superbowl we know that a small piece is missing, so a d-lineman in this years first round would take us to the superbowl? I just dont see a d-lineman as a rookie getting substantial playing time, and then being rotated in and out of our scheme. I'm sorry I do not understand how.
            I agree with you. The missing peice that we need to get to the superbowl is not a DL. But a wide receiver(Eric Moulds)
            However, I beleive getting a good pass rusher will really help.
            Its true we do not have a good pass rusher whether that rusher is a DE, DT, LB, S or whtever.

            B-Marsh owning Al Harris(Aka: the supposed most physical corner in the league)

            Mock Draft:

            **If Ellis/Dorsey fall**

            1) Dorsey or Ellis(whoever falls)
            2) Devin Thomas
            4) Frank Okam
            4) Beau Bell

            **If Ellis/Dorsey dont fall**

            1) Desean Jackson
            2) Pat Sims or Trevor Laws(whoever falls)
            4) Frank Okam
            4) Beau Bell

            Comment


            • #21
              With pryce gone our line is going to struggle unless we find a strong interior lineman that demands the double team that pryce was so used to seeing. So I think we get a strong DT to collapse the pocket ant then a speedy edge rusher to pick up the trash sacks. The DT will push the QB out of the pocket and the DE will have the speed to chase him down. Now this will only work if we get a DT that demands a double team.
              "If you are going through hell...keep going." Winston Churchill

              "If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you'll be fired with enthusiasm." Vince Lombardi

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by WhatWould#7Do
                With pryce gone our line is going to struggle unless we find a strong interior lineman that demands the double team that pryce was so used to seeing. So I think we get a strong DT to collapse the pocket ant then a speedy edge rusher to pick up the trash sacks. The DT will push the QB out of the pocket and the DE will have the speed to chase him down. Now this will only work if we get a DT that demands a double team.
                Pryce didn't play DT last year. He played DE.

                -----

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by topscribe
                  Pryce didn't play DT last year. He played DE.

                  -----

                  in our base D he was the starting RDE, but he did rotate inside some on passing downs. . . but that info is mostly immaterial, regardless of where he lined up he's gone, and the talent on our D-line is not getting any better. . .
                  Officially Objectified by the GPA

                  rest in peace, darrent williams and damien nash-- you will be missed!!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by phatbronco
                    Do we win the superbowl next year with a first round d-lineman, and which one?
                    Being one win away from the superbowl we know that a small piece is missing, so a d-lineman in this years first round would take us to the superbowl? I just dont see a d-lineman as a rookie getting substantial playing time, and then being rotated in and out of our scheme. I'm sorry I do not understand how.
                    couldnt of said it better. unless its mario williams, chances are any d-line will make minimal differance this year. pryce himself barley played his rookie season
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by eletero
                      I know this will generate a few flames, but I wanted to say something . (I don't generally say much, I'm more of a lurker.)

                      I was thinking about this and looking at the stats from last season and current roster.

                      We currently have 3 first round draft picks on our D-Line, including a number 1 pick.
                      I like our fairly young 1st round D-Line Ekuban, Warren, X, Brown. I also like the way they've changed themselves as people. They seemed to work hard and settled quickly in Denver, I expect increased performance next year.
                      Granted we had very few sacks last year, but sacks or lack of are also a result of the defensive schemes. How many teams reverted to max protect against us last year?
                      We had one of the highest QB pressure counts in the league last year and it showed in the number of interceptions. Look at Ferguson's year, 5 interceptions.

                      Perhaps if we had a very fast rusher it would help with chase downs, but I think our weakest point on the line is actually DT, Myers is ok and good in rotation but he's not to the same standard as the rest.

                      If we do use a first round on D-Line there is no guarantee they'll perform any better than the rest of our first round draft picks. I'd expect more sacks this year if we see less max protect and more inventive defensive schemes.

                      Personally I'd like to look at positions,

                      FS/SS - both starters are 32+. However I'm not sure if (other than Huff) any would warrant our first round pick? Jason Allen or Ko Simpson?

                      WR - Rod is 35, Lelie isn't as reliable as he should be. However, the WR depth is poor for this draft and again there is the issue of pick warranting 15 or 22. There is also the danger with Chad Jackson of drafting a workout specialist.

                      RB - There is the old argument against this, why do we need a good RB when our scheme is so good etc. Well the argument against this would be someone like Portis, for a 2nd round pick (which Portis was - projected 1st if I remember correctly) look at the value we got in return, Champ + 2nd round pick Drafting a good RB would not only help the team but is a good investment and has a high chance of success. However, there are 4 or 5 good RBs and picking one early may be a waste. I think if we still had 29 we could pick the best one left, at 15 and 22 I'm not sure if the same rule applies.


                      TE - I would like this as a pick but again there are three players I'd be happy with, Vernon Davis, Leonard Pope and Mercedes Lewis. Obviously if Davis falls to 15 he would be my first pick. However I don't think he's worth 2 first round picks, especially when there are others. TE is an under valued position I feel, if you look at Shanon Sharpe's last season (770yrds) that's more than 3 out of 4 of Lelie's yearly totals (only 2004 was better 1084 yards). Jake likes big targets and I think a good blocking and great receiving TE would help the passing game a lot.


                      So with all the options available I'd actually be happy with more trading and more specifically trading down. If we could exchange 15 for a later first and a second round?

                      This way I'd go RB(1a) TE/WR(1b) FS(2a) DE(2b)

                      If we stay as we are I'd go RB at 15, and either TE or FS at 22.

                      Nice post, but in a word yes we still need speed rusher on the defensive line imo. Ekuban and Engleberger are situational players that provide good depth. If not a DE then a better DT to compliment Warren. Bottom line we still need to improve the pass rush and with current personell I think it still needs to be addressed.
                      John 11: 25-27

                      My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                      Thanks Snk16

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by dogfish
                        i hate to be the one to burst the bubble, but it doesn't matter where brown and ekuban were drafted-- all that matters is their performance, and they don't even resemble 1st round picks. . . not one DE on our roster is better than average, and that's being kind! they're solid against the run, but none of them is a disruptive game-changer in the mold of a jason taylor, simeon rice, etc (insert name of elite DE here), let alone the true elites like freeney and peppers. . .

                        it's circular reasoning to say that another 1st round DE could turn out like brown or ekuban-- by that reasoning, you should never draft any player high becasue they could turn out to be a bust! fact is, it is riskier drafting high, but that's also where the most reward is! sure we can take a 3rd or 4th rounder, but you have to realize those players are still on the board for a reason-- scouts don't think they have the same potential/high ceiling as the guys drafted higher. . . doesn't mean it's always true, but your odds of getting a really good player are still much better in the higher rounds. . .

                        granted, the "browncos" are hard workers, but none of them has the physical talent to excell as a pass rusher-- they just don't have that explosive first step, and no amount of hard work can make up for that! pass rushing DE is the clear weakness on our D, and if we don't change it we will be forced to rely on the all-out blitz just like we did last year, and when teams figure out how to pick it up they will sit back and pick apart our secondary like pitt did, and NE in the second half!

                        if you look at the best defenses, they are able to get pressure with their front 4, like chicago and carolina-- this allows you to drop more guys in coverage, take away anything long, keep the play in front of you. . . and also can make your blitz even more effective because you can bring it selectively, mix up your play calling, and dictate to the offense instead of having them dictate to you!

                        pressures are not sacks-- a QB under pressure can still complete a pass, but a sack finishes the play, and helps immensely in the game of field position. . . and can lead to fumbles also! besides, if pressure is what you really want, obviously adding a top pass rusher improves your pressure as much as it does your sack total, and allows you to get that pressure without bringing the house. . . without a true pass rusher like berry or hayward, our 3rd down completion percentage allowed sky-rocketed last year, and we were forced to be a one-dimensional, predictable blitzing D-- i love bringing the heat, but we all know the old saying. . . live by the blitz, die by the blitz, and when it counted most we died by it.

                        What he said....

                        This man makes a whole lot of sense. I was happy to see us make the QB's run, but unless the pressure creates an interception, or, grounding, the pass rush is kind of unsatisfactory. We had too many get away from us, especially in the AFCC... if we had a pass rush in that game at all. It is unrealistic to expect a sack every play... but with the way we limited opponents with the run, it's unrealistic to think you can win a game without forcing the QB's hand, or better, forcing him to the ground. CP's to the shark from me on this thread. (well, when I can anyway, guess I have to spread the wealth a bit more... )


                        For my money, I wouldn't cry if we went DE and DT with 15 and 22. The line is our most glaring weakness.
                        Last edited by gobroncsnv; 03-26-2006, 08:12 PM.

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