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  • #16
    GOOD GOD NO!!!!!




































    ok, let me tell you how i really feel about it. . .


    no--absolutely not! i don't think any TE is ever worth two 1st round picks-- no offense to those who love davis, but get a grip guys, he's a TE! if he becomes the best TE to ever play, will he impact the game more than any of the top TEN wide receivers in the game? no chance-- look up the stats! only one TE has ever topped 100 receptions in a season, while elite WRs do it routinely. . . only a handfull of TEs have ever gotten double-digit TDs in a year (13 by gates was the most ever), while lots of top WRs score 10+ in a year, and top RBs can produce twice that. . .i don't know the stat for this one off the top of my head, but how often do you see TEs get over 1000 yards?

    so yes, i know this guy is a rare physical specimen-- but imo to be worth two 1st round picks he would have to be hands down the best TE to ever play the game. . . and anyone who wants to tell me they know he will be is off their rocker-- i don't care what his college stats were or how he tore it up at the combine! let's see him actually play some NFL games before we put him in the HOF and annoint him the greatest of all time! i know as well as anyone that he's going to be good, and i can understand the desire to add an impact player-- but for me the production just doesn't add up. . . no way he is worth more than a quality DE and RB, or a quality WR and a DT, etc., etc. . .

    i can possibly see it being worth a 2nd to trade up a few spots if he falls unexpectedly, but i'm with HP56-- mario is the only player i would even consider giving up both 1sts for. . . but i think the idea of trading two 1sts for a TE is nutty! OK you VD fans (hah!), come on and kill me. . .
    Officially Objectified by the GPA

    rest in peace, darrent williams and damien nash-- you will be missed!!

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by RoorRipper
      Another good point. At what point do they address the loss of J.P.? AJ Hawk will be taken by the Packers... I cannot wait for this draft.

      although i'm sure they'll consider davis very closely, i won't be surprised if the niners end up taking michael huff instead. . . they already have a good TE in eric johnson, and their secondary is thinner than rice paper. . .
      Officially Objectified by the GPA

      rest in peace, darrent williams and damien nash-- you will be missed!!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by dogfish
        ok, let me tell you how i really feel about it. . .
        no--absolutely not! i don't think any TE is ever worth two 1st round picks-- no offense to those who love davis, but get a grip guys, he's a TE! if he becomes the best TE to ever play, will he impact the game more than any of the top TEN wide receivers in the game? no chance-- look up the stats! only one TE has ever topped 100 receptions in a season, while elite WRs do it routinely. . . only a handfull of TEs have ever gotten double-digit TDs in a year (13 by gates was the most ever), while lots of top WRs score 10+ in a year, and top RBs can produce twice that. . .i don't know the stat for this one off the top of my head, but how often do you see TEs get over 1000 yards?

        so yes, i know this guy is a rare physical specimen-- but imo to be worth two 1st round picks he would have to be hands down the best TE to ever play the game. . . and anyone who wants to tell me they know he will be is off their rocker-- i don't care what his college stats were or how he tore it up at the combine! let's see him actually play some NFL games before we put him in the HOF and annoint him the greatest of all time! i know as well as anyone that he's going to be good, and i can understand the desire to add an impact player-- but for me the production just doesn't add up. . . no way he is worth more than a quality DE and RB, or a quality WR and a DT, etc., etc. . .

        i can possibly see it being worth a 2nd to trade up a few spots if he falls unexpectedly, but i'm with HP56-- mario is the only player i would even consider giving up both 1sts for. . . but i think the idea of trading two 1sts for a TE is nutty! OK you VD fans (hah!), come on and kill me. . .
        Nice response! Alright, here's what I have to say.

        Didn't Antonio Gates get 1,000 yards last season and this season? I know he did at least once. Look what he does for the Chargers. They have absolute SCRUBS for receivers, yet were one of the best offensive teams in the league. A TE is a lot more crucial to an offense than you are giving credit. Imagine our offense as it is now with a guy who has the potential TO BE THE NEXT Shannon Sharpe. We won rings because of a TE like Sharpe, and it is my firm opinion we wont get there until we have a playmaking TE. Davis can be the guy.

        What do you suggest we do?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by RoorRipper
          Nice response! Alright, here's what I have to say.

          Didn't Antonio Gates get 1,000 yards last season and this season? I know he did at least once. Look what he does for the Chargers. They have absolute SCRUBS for receivers, yet were one of the best offensive teams in the league. A TE is a lot more crucial to an offense than you are giving credit. Imagine our offense as it is now with a guy who has the potential TO BE THE NEXT Shannon Sharpe. We won rings because of a TE like Sharpe, and it is my firm opinion we wont get there until we have a playmaking TE. Davis can be the guy.

          What do you suggest we do?

          i've said in many posts that i think adding an impact pass rusher with the spped to come off the edge and get to the QB is the easiest way for us to get over the hump. . .

          i do agree with you that it would be highly beneficial for us to add a dynamic TE-- but i don't see it as a neccesity by any means. . . although i don't have any unrealistic expectations that he'll be some big star, i do expect duke to contribute some next year. . .

          i would be fine with us adding a TE in the latter part of the 1st day-- i think klopfenstein would be my first choice, but honestly i would be glad to see us add any of the top TE prospects besides byrd, who i'm not sold on. . . he's pretty short for a TE and is reported to have attitude problems and be a little lazy when it comes to blocking, which won't fly here. . . but i would be excited to see us add lewis, pope, klop or fasano. . .

          certainly, it would be nice for jake to have a better safety valve, and i agree that a TE who can run after the catch could make a big impact in our system. . . but i'm not sure it's fair to compare davis to gates just yet-- gates has established himself as the best TE in the game right now (chiefs fans may argue), and while i freely acknowledge that davis does indeed have that type of potential, i just won't accept it as a given that he'll be the best player in the league at his position before he has played a single pro snap. . . he certainly has a low bust factor, but he can get injured just like anyone else-- one kellen winslow moment, and there go your two 1st round picks, which is why i myself don't like the idea of trading two high picks for anyone unless you're in the market for a franchise QB. . .

          honestly, i don't know that i'd give two 1sts for the guy if you could look in to the future and guarantee me that he would be shannon sharpe-- even if he is, would it be worth passing up a RB who could be the next terrell davis in our system? which of the two was more valuable to us? easy answer in my book. . . especially if you can add a quality DL or WR along with him. . .

          i'll be interested to see if psycho chicken checks in on this thread. . .
          Officially Objectified by the GPA

          rest in peace, darrent williams and damien nash-- you will be missed!!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by dogfish
            i've said in many posts that i think adding an impact pass rusher with the spped to come off the edge and get to the QB is the easiest way for us to get over the hump. . .

            i do agree with you that it would be highly beneficial for us to add a dynamic TE-- but i don't see it as a neccesity by any means. . . although i don't have any unrealistic expectations that he'll be some big star, i do expect duke to contribute some next year. . .

            i would be fine with us adding a TE in the latter part of the 1st day-- i think klopfenstein would be my first choice, but honestly i would be glad to see us add any of the top TE prospects besides byrd, who i'm not sold on. . . he's pretty short for a TE and is reported to have attitude problems and be a little lazy when it comes to blocking, which won't fly here. . . but i would be excited to see us add lewis, pope, klop or fasano. . .

            certainly, it would be nice for jake to have a better safety valve, and i agree that a TE who can run after the catch could make a big impact in our system. . . but i'm not sure it's fair to compare davis to gates just yet-- gates has established himself as the best TE in the game right now (chiefs fans may argue), and while i freely acknowledge that davis does indeed have that type of potential, i just won't accept it as a given that he'll be the best player in the league at his position before he has played a single pro snap. . . he certainly has a low bust factor, but he can get injured just like anyone else-- one kellen winslow moment, and there go your two 1st round picks, which is why i myself don't like the idea of trading two high picks for anyone unless you're in the market for a franchise QB. . .

            honestly, i don't know that i'd give two 1sts for the guy if you could look in to the future and guarantee me that he would be shannon sharpe-- even if he is, would it be worth passing up a RB who could be the next terrell davis in our system? which of the two was more valuable to us? easy answer in my book. . . especially if you can add a quality DL or WR along with him. . .

            i'll be interested to see if psycho chicken checks in on this thread. . .
            I agree. I was unaware Duke will be in training camp competing... If this is the case, then I think him and Alexander should be alright, with a later round TE pickup.

            This is such a tough decision, one that I can guarantee the GM has thought about. This is the ONLY time of year I wouldn't want to be a GM!

            Comment


            • #21
              The Broncos have needs at WR, S, DL, and TE. When you have those holes you don't make filling the TE a priority. TEs don't win Super Bowls, ask Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by SethGrandpa
                The Broncos have needs at WR, S, DL, and TE. When you have those holes you don't make filling the TE a priority. TEs don't win Super Bowls, ask Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates.
                1. Sign Eric Moulds
                2. Draft Jason Allen from Tennessee
                3. Draft a DT
                4. Trade for Vernon Davis

                How's that sound?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by SethGrandpa
                  TEs don't win Super Bowls, ask Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates.
                  Ask Shannon Sharpe that same question.
                  Originally posted by boltzpride619
                  What's so funny is seeing all this mess that the Donks and the fans have placed on themselves. Can you say Raiders.

                  Originally posted by RunByDesign
                  True comedy is observing the Self Imploding Organization that is the Raiders and then asking yourself this question:

                  What separates them (Raiders) from us (Chargers)

                  Answer: Championships.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by RunByDesign
                    Ask Shannon Sharpe that same question.
                    I was going to say this... But I think Terrell Davis was more important to us than Shannon.

                    With that said, I feel we won't win a SB if we just settle on Duke and Alexander.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by RunByDesign
                      Ask Shannon Sharpe that same question.

                      over-simplification-- shay had a couple of guys on his team named terrell davis and john elway! gates and TG haven't been quite as lucky. . .


                      EDIT: how could i forget gary zimmerman? good teams win super bowls, not good individual players. . .
                      Last edited by dogfish; 03-26-2006, 12:36 PM.
                      Officially Objectified by the GPA

                      rest in peace, darrent williams and damien nash-- you will be missed!!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by dogfish
                        over-simplification-- shay had a couple of guys on his team named terrell davis and john elway! gates and TG haven't been quite as lucky. . .
                        Yeah, I know. Each were interdependent on the other. My point was that, you do need talent at the TE position, as previous Bronco teams have demonstrated.

                        Anyways, it couldn't hurt.
                        Originally posted by boltzpride619
                        What's so funny is seeing all this mess that the Donks and the fans have placed on themselves. Can you say Raiders.

                        Originally posted by RunByDesign
                        True comedy is observing the Self Imploding Organization that is the Raiders and then asking yourself this question:

                        What separates them (Raiders) from us (Chargers)

                        Answer: Championships.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dogfish
                          GOOD GOD NO!!!!!







































                          ok, let me tell you how i really feel about it. . .


                          no--absolutely not! i don't think any TE is ever worth two 1st round picks-- no offense to those who love davis, but get a grip guys, he's a TE! if he becomes the best TE to ever play, will he impact the game more than any of the top TEN wide receivers in the game? no chance-- look up the stats! only one TE has ever topped 100 receptions in a season, while elite WRs do it routinely. . . only a handfull of TEs have ever gotten double-digit TDs in a year (13 by gates was the most ever), while lots of top WRs score 10+ in a year, and top RBs can produce twice that. . .i don't know the stat for this one off the top of my head, but how often do you see TEs get over 1000 yards?

                          so yes, i know this guy is a rare physical specimen-- but imo to be worth two 1st round picks he would have to be hands down the best TE to ever play the game. . . and anyone who wants to tell me they know he will be is off their rocker-- i don't care what his college stats were or how he tore it up at the combine! let's see him actually play some NFL games before we put him in the HOF and annoint him the greatest of all time! i know as well as anyone that he's going to be good, and i can understand the desire to add an impact player-- but for me the production just doesn't add up. . . no way he is worth more than a quality DE and RB, or a quality WR and a DT, etc., etc. . .

                          i can possibly see it being worth a 2nd to trade up a few spots if he falls unexpectedly, but i'm with HP56-- mario is the only player i would even consider giving up both 1sts for. . . but i think the idea of trading two 1sts for a TE is nutty! OK you VD fans (hah!), come on and kill me. . .
                          Agree, more value in getting two first rounders then one

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by RoorRipper
                            I was going to say this... But I think Terrell Davis was more important to us than Shannon.

                            With that said, I feel we won't win a SB if we just settle on Duke and Alexander.
                            Shannon was a huge factor and was every bit as necessary as Terrell, IMO.
                            Originally posted by boltzpride619
                            What's so funny is seeing all this mess that the Donks and the fans have placed on themselves. Can you say Raiders.

                            Originally posted by RunByDesign
                            True comedy is observing the Self Imploding Organization that is the Raiders and then asking yourself this question:

                            What separates them (Raiders) from us (Chargers)

                            Answer: Championships.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DURANGO BRONCO
                              I guess I can hear my mother saying not to put all of your eggs in one basket.
                              Hmm. Your mother apparently uses one of my favorite arguments when it comes to trading up for high draft picks.

                              EVERY draft pick comes with the risk of busting. Even Vernon Davis. Having 2 of the top 22 draft picks greatly increases our chances of having at least one high draft pick be a success. And at a much lower price than the #5 or #6 overall pick.

                              Lower risk. Cheaper price tag. 1 + 1 = 2. (2 draft picks, that is.)


                              Plus, there always a chance that BOTH of our first rounders be a success in which case we're far better off than having just one high draft pick succeed.


                              Finally, as great as Vernon Davis looks (and he does seem greatly talented), just look at some other tight ends:

                              Kellen Winslow Jr. : #6 overall pick but quite a waste so far. Too many eggs in one basket.

                              Ricky Dudley: #9 overall pick. What a dud!

                              Kyle Brady: #9 overall pick. Decent but not worthy of #9 overall.

                              Antonio Gates: Undrafted but the #1 tight end in the NFL statistically

                              Tony Gonzalez: #13 overall pick. Only 2 spots above our current position. Wouldn't have had to trade both our 1st round picks to move up.

                              Todd Heap: #31 overall pick. Great value late in the first.

                              Cooley: #81 overall pick.

                              Shockey: #14 overall. Just 1 spot above our current position.

                              Witten: #69 overall pick

                              Crumpler: #35 overall pick


                              Shannon Sharpe: #192 overall pick!


                              In the past 20 years, only 3 tight ends have been picked in the top 10. And not a single one has lived up to their hype. But look at the others who have.

                              We should stay where we are, in my opinion.
                              "You can't take the sky from me..."
                              ------
                              "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                All this objective reasoning is hurting my head!

                                Good post Javalon.

                                Comment

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