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  • BroncoFanCam
    replied
    Originally posted by Javalon
    I understand where you're coming from. And we definitely agree that we'd like to have Davis on the team. But we obviously disagree on whether he's worth both of our first rounders.

    But what I would be okay with is the possibility that Davis drops to say around #8 - #10 and we trade our 2nd-rounder along with the 15th overall pick.


    Then again, I might be okay with trading both our first rounders if would keep the Raiders from getting Vernon Davis.
    I don't want to see him go to Oakland either... they have enough VD already, without getting a player of the same initials. We however could use a good dose of VD (Vernon Davis that is.)

    Leave a comment:


  • TXBRONC
    replied
    I tend to go along with the thinking of Javalon. While having Davis would be nice considering the tools he brings to the table, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of giving up two number one picks to get. We still have a need of rush end regardless of the fa signing of Lang and the abundance of DL that are atm on the roster. If I'm understanding the sepulation of this draft correctly the best of the crop of DE will be gone by the end of the first round. Imo the more picks we have the better our chances of bringing in quality players.

    Leave a comment:


  • Javalon
    replied
    Originally posted by PurdueBronc
    I understand your reservations about trading both 1st round picks for Davis, I have them too. The title of the post inquires if you would be ok with it, and I absolutely would be. Where I can see your point in security in numbers, this guy was faster then the 2nd place TE in the 40 by .16: a 4.38 is unheard of by a TE. The Broncos used to motion Sharpe as a WR, and with this guy, there is no question they could do the same. Furthermore his vertical is 4.5'' higher than Pope's, granted Pope's height makes up for that.

    As far as none of the 3 TEs picked in the top 10 panning out in the past 20 years, it's just a number. Yes, it is a bad number, but when you only have 3 TE picked in the top 10, the odds of players not panning out is greater, then if there were more TE picked in the top 10. Also, Winslow may have had a great career if he didn't get in that accident. There have been plenty of players picked in the top 10 playing other positions that have not panned out as well.

    What positions do the Broncos need to use there 2 first round picks for?
    Offensive: QB-no. RB- it would be nice to pick up any of the top 3, but not necessary. WR- the Broncos need to start looking for a replacement for Rod ( I don't think it'd Lelie, so yes. Although, as I mentioned above, Davis could be utilized as a WR. TE- absolutely, with as much as the Broncos use the bootleg, having a good TE is essential, not to mention for run blocking.

    Defense wise, are CBs are good, if Huff were to drop down far enough maybe go for him because we need saety help, but I doubt he will. DE and DT we need, but there will be quality guys in the 2nd round and later.

    A great TE is hard to come by, and although trading up for Davis is a high risk situation, I believe the high reward potential would be worth it.
    I understand where you're coming from. And we definitely agree that we'd like to have Davis on the team. But we obviously disagree on whether he's worth both of our first rounders.

    But what I would be okay with is the possibility that Davis drops to say around #8 - #10 and we trade our 2nd-rounder along with the 15th overall pick.


    Then again, I might be okay with trading both our first rounders if would keep the Raiders from getting Vernon Davis.

    Leave a comment:


  • watchthemiddle
    replied
    Trade up but not for Vernon Davis

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncoFanCam
    replied
    Originally posted by PurdueBronc
    Davis could be utilized as a WR. TE- absolutely, with as much as the Broncos use the bootleg...
    Good point!!! I forgot about the bootleg - - For me if they want halp in the passing game, it's kind of a no-brainer.

    He could help us fathoms more than any Chad Jackson, or Santonio Holmes. IMO

    Our track record with 1st round WR's is sad on it's best of days, I DO NOT want to see that continue, I am sick of these guys not performing consistently, and some not atall (Nash).

    Leave a comment:


  • PurdueBronc
    replied
    Originally posted by Javalon
    Don't get me wrong. I'd love to have Davis and I agree that a top tight end would greatly enhance our offense (like in the days of Sharpe). Just not at the cost of both of our first round picks.

    Davis is no guarantee.

    We'd be better off drafting the next two best prospects at tight end with our first two picks than trading away our two picks for just one pick.

    As I mentioned, none of the 3 tight ends who were top 10 picks in the past 20 years have panned out. But a lot of the mid to late first rounders and below have become stars.

    Two of the top 22 picks is clearly better than the #5 or #6 pick, in my opinion, regardless of what the trade charts might show. I'll say it again:

    Two picks = lower risk and cheaper price. I'll take the better odds of success.
    I understand your reservations about trading both 1st round picks for Davis, I have them too. The title of the post inquires if you would be ok with it, and I absolutely would be. Where I can see your point in security in numbers, this guy was faster then the 2nd place TE in the 40 by .16: a 4.38 is unheard of by a TE. The Broncos used to motion Sharpe as a WR, and with this guy, there is no question they could do the same. Furthermore his vertical is 4.5'' higher than Pope's, granted Pope's height makes up for that.

    As far as none of the 3 TEs picked in the top 10 panning out in the past 20 years, it's just a number. Yes, it is a bad number, but when you only have 3 TE picked in the top 10, the odds of players not panning out is greater, then if there were more TE picked in the top 10. Also, Winslow may have had a great career if he didn't get in that accident. There have been plenty of players picked in the top 10 playing other positions that have not panned out as well.

    What positions do the Broncos need to use there 2 first round picks for?
    Offensive: QB-no. RB- it would be nice to pick up any of the top 3, but not necessary. WR- the Broncos need to start looking for a replacement for Rod ( I don't think it'd Lelie, so yes. Although, as I mentioned above, Davis could be utilized as a WR. TE- absolutely, with as much as the Broncos use the bootleg, having a good TE is essential, not to mention for run blocking.

    Defense wise, are CBs are good, if Huff were to drop down far enough maybe go for him because we need saety help, but I doubt he will. DE and DT we need, but there will be quality guys in the 2nd round and later.

    A great TE is hard to come by, and although trading up for Davis is a high risk situation, I believe the high reward potential would be worth it.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncoFanCam
    replied
    Originally posted by RoorRipper
    Would you be satisfied if the Broncos packaged both of our first rounders for the 49ers 6th pick?

    HOW ABOUT SOMEONE POSTS WHY?!?!?!
    For me this depends on what the Broncos are planning to do in the draft.

    If they are certain they need help in the passing game, and are determined to get a WR, than I am absolutely FOR this! None of the WR's available hold a candle to Vernon Davis.

    He can run with any of them. Is bigger and stronger than any of them, and does just as much (if not more) after the ball is in his hands as any of them.

    Being a TE he obviously has some experience blocking (downfield blocking is a huge part of our offense).

    If they are convinced they need help on the offensive side of the ball, none of the WR's available, will do half as much for us, as soon, as Davis could.

    If Duke is starting in the AFCCG (with little/no previous experience @ TE) Davis could step in and be a huge upgrade, immediately.

    Leave a comment:


  • ydave77
    replied
    Its a tough call, unlikely that both of our 1sts turn out to be probowlers, but that doesnt mean Davis will be either. Here is a list of our last 10 1st rd picks.

    Last 10 1st rders

    DJ Williams
    George Foster
    Ashley Lelie
    Willie Middlebrooks
    Deltha Oneil
    Al Wilson
    Marcus Nash
    Trevor Pryce
    John Mobley
    Dan Williams

    Out of these 10 you have 4 who have been to the Pro Bowl (Al Wilson, Trevor Pryce, John Mobley, Deltha) . You have 7 reliable starter quality guys (DJ, Foster, Lelie, Deltha, Al, Trevor, and John). Thats a very solid 70% hit rate on our 1st rd picks. With 3 star quality guys in Al, Trevor, and John. I dont think its worth trading 2 chances to hit, for one. There have been alot of players who were drafted in the top 5 who have busted. I mean look at Kellen Winslow II, he is a bust so far, granted not jsut bc of his talent, but his stupidity. There is no guarantee Davis will be a stud. I would rather get 2 chances, than one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Javalon
    replied
    Originally posted by PurdueBronc
    With a passing system that typically revolves around the tight end I would not be disappointed if Shanny traded both picks for Davis. He is a work horse and his combines were off the chart. The Broncos need a franchise TE like they had with Sharpe. Having a pontential great TE in Davis would relieve Plummer of some pressure in the passing game.
    Originally posted by RoorRipper
    *standing ovation*

    Javalon, he has A HELL OF A POINT.
    Don't get me wrong. I'd love to have Davis and I agree that a top tight end would greatly enhance our offense (like in the days of Sharpe). Just not at the cost of both of our first round picks.

    Davis is no guarantee.

    We'd be better off drafting the next two best prospects at tight end with our first two picks than trading away our two picks for just one pick.

    As I mentioned, none of the 3 tight ends who were top 10 picks in the past 20 years have panned out. But a lot of the mid to late first rounders and below have become stars.

    Two of the top 22 picks is clearly better than the #5 or #6 pick, in my opinion, regardless of what the trade charts might show. I'll say it again:

    Two picks = lower risk and cheaper price. I'll take the better odds of success.

    Leave a comment:


  • RoorRipper
    replied
    Originally posted by PurdueBronc
    With a passing system that typically revolves around the tight end I would not be disappointed if Shanny traded both picks for Davis. He is a work horse and his combines were off the chart. The Broncos need a franchise TE like they had with Sharpe. Having a pontential great TE in Davis would relieve Plummer of some pressure in the passing game.
    *standing ovation*

    Javalon, he has A HELL OF A POINT.

    Leave a comment:


  • PurdueBronc
    replied
    With a passing system that typically revolves around the tight end I would not be disappointed if Shanny traded both picks for Davis. He is a work horse and his combines were off the chart. The Broncos need a franchise TE like they had with Sharpe. Having a pontential great TE in Davis would relieve Plummer of some pressure in the passing game.

    Leave a comment:


  • RoorRipper
    replied
    All this objective reasoning is hurting my head!

    Good post Javalon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Javalon
    replied
    Originally posted by DURANGO BRONCO
    I guess I can hear my mother saying not to put all of your eggs in one basket.
    Hmm. Your mother apparently uses one of my favorite arguments when it comes to trading up for high draft picks.

    EVERY draft pick comes with the risk of busting. Even Vernon Davis. Having 2 of the top 22 draft picks greatly increases our chances of having at least one high draft pick be a success. And at a much lower price than the #5 or #6 overall pick.

    Lower risk. Cheaper price tag. 1 + 1 = 2. (2 draft picks, that is.)


    Plus, there always a chance that BOTH of our first rounders be a success in which case we're far better off than having just one high draft pick succeed.


    Finally, as great as Vernon Davis looks (and he does seem greatly talented), just look at some other tight ends:

    Kellen Winslow Jr. : #6 overall pick but quite a waste so far. Too many eggs in one basket.

    Ricky Dudley: #9 overall pick. What a dud!

    Kyle Brady: #9 overall pick. Decent but not worthy of #9 overall.

    Antonio Gates: Undrafted but the #1 tight end in the NFL statistically

    Tony Gonzalez: #13 overall pick. Only 2 spots above our current position. Wouldn't have had to trade both our 1st round picks to move up.

    Todd Heap: #31 overall pick. Great value late in the first.

    Cooley: #81 overall pick.

    Shockey: #14 overall. Just 1 spot above our current position.

    Witten: #69 overall pick

    Crumpler: #35 overall pick


    Shannon Sharpe: #192 overall pick!


    In the past 20 years, only 3 tight ends have been picked in the top 10. And not a single one has lived up to their hype. But look at the others who have.

    We should stay where we are, in my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • RunByDesign
    replied
    Originally posted by RoorRipper
    I was going to say this... But I think Terrell Davis was more important to us than Shannon.

    With that said, I feel we won't win a SB if we just settle on Duke and Alexander.
    Shannon was a huge factor and was every bit as necessary as Terrell, IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • ManoRodriquez
    replied
    Originally posted by dogfish
    GOOD GOD NO!!!!!







































    ok, let me tell you how i really feel about it. . .


    no--absolutely not! i don't think any TE is ever worth two 1st round picks-- no offense to those who love davis, but get a grip guys, he's a TE! if he becomes the best TE to ever play, will he impact the game more than any of the top TEN wide receivers in the game? no chance-- look up the stats! only one TE has ever topped 100 receptions in a season, while elite WRs do it routinely. . . only a handfull of TEs have ever gotten double-digit TDs in a year (13 by gates was the most ever), while lots of top WRs score 10+ in a year, and top RBs can produce twice that. . .i don't know the stat for this one off the top of my head, but how often do you see TEs get over 1000 yards?

    so yes, i know this guy is a rare physical specimen-- but imo to be worth two 1st round picks he would have to be hands down the best TE to ever play the game. . . and anyone who wants to tell me they know he will be is off their rocker-- i don't care what his college stats were or how he tore it up at the combine! let's see him actually play some NFL games before we put him in the HOF and annoint him the greatest of all time! i know as well as anyone that he's going to be good, and i can understand the desire to add an impact player-- but for me the production just doesn't add up. . . no way he is worth more than a quality DE and RB, or a quality WR and a DT, etc., etc. . .

    i can possibly see it being worth a 2nd to trade up a few spots if he falls unexpectedly, but i'm with HP56-- mario is the only player i would even consider giving up both 1sts for. . . but i think the idea of trading two 1sts for a TE is nutty! OK you VD fans (hah!), come on and kill me. . .
    Agree, more value in getting two first rounders then one

    Leave a comment:

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