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Which WR prospect would you rather have?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by PsychoChicken
    See, the thing is that you're wrong about Chad Jackson to begin with. He would not be a second-rounder any year. Just because this draft class is weaker than most years, doesn't mean he should be penalized for that. It's not like no player has never jumped from late-1st round to mid-first round status. Javon Walker (my prospect #3) pulled had a similar jump.

    Chad Jackson's physical tools are off the charts. His production (in the SEC, as if we didn't know already), is solid, and his game film is very impressive. He's got top intangibles and a great work ethic. He has a better chance than anyone other receiver in the draft to contribute immediately. And I'm not exaggerating at all when I make the claim that in the 2002 draft with Lelie, Stallworth, and Walker among others, Jackson would likely have been picked before Lelie and Walker. I believe you've taken this anti-Jackson notion so far in your subconcious that it's accumulated into this need to bash him in any way possible. It reminds me of someone else on these boards, only with Plummer...though not quite to that extent. Summing things up, if Chad Jackson is ****, he's some pretty good smelling ****.

    Ahhh. I was under the impression that he had a tendency to "disappear" often during the course of games. And it's not so much that I am against Jackson per se, it's that I am against wasting the 15th pick on him when there is talent that dwarfs his at other, more immediately impactful positions.

    Besides, he is not an aggressive blocker, but to be fair Lelie really wasn't when we drafted him, either, and he has come around. Also, he doesn't return punts, and unless we can afford a luxury roster spot for a returner, that doesn't help him get here either.

    Defensive Tackle, Running Back, Tight End, and Defensive End are all positions we need worse than wide receiver.

    There's not really going to be a TE at 15 that is worth that pick, so that can be scratched.

    Defensive tackle would definitely be the way to go if Bunkley or Ngata were somehow on the board, but chances are against that.

    DeAngelo Williams would be an absolute steal at 15; if he had come out last year he could have supplanted one of the top three backs and gone in the top-five. The value of that pick is tremendous, he would contribute greatly right away, and we would have a back more complete than we will have the chance to draft in the next 10 years. He is an elite prospect.

    Defensive Ends...Lawson is probably worth the pick, and Wimbley may be as well. Both guys have seen their stock soaring and we still don't have that speed rusher (I think the Lang thing is a mistake, he's too damned old to still have the type of explosion we need). Many feel that signing him will eliminate the possibilty of us drafting a DE at all, and they may be right.

    In my opinion, there's just no way that Chad Jackson can come in here and have as much impact as Williams, Bunkley, Ngata, Lawson or Wimbley would have. He won't beat out Lelie, and will probably be battling Terrell or Adams for the 3rd spot. We'd almost have to keep Adams then, because we'd need a punt returner.

    It just doesn't make sense to me that we would take such a huge gamble on a guy who won't contribute much, when there are so many more good prospects deeper in the draft. That's why I don't want Jackson.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Dub-DeuceKnight
      Prospect 2 is made up no one had more than 1600 yds receiving last year, Mike Hass led the Nation with 1500 and something. Plus there were no good recievers in the WAC this year. Unless he is from a previous year which in that case is a completely different story.
      I don't like drafting a WR the only one I really want is Javon Walker.

      These are actual stats. Some people have already figured it out, but they are the stats that Ashley Lelie put up his junior year. It's just to illustrate that Ashley was at least as good a prospect coming out of college as Jackson is, and many people are disappointed with the way he has turned out. I am not one of them.

      It's all hypothetical, of course, but if Lelie were in this draft, there would be a ton of people on the bandwagon to draft him. Many are still waiting for him to reach his full potential. But when you look at guys like David Terrell, Roy Williams, Mike Williams, etc etc, I'd have to say that Lelie is doing pretty well. Not to mention we got him with the 19th overall pick.

      It's a crapshoot. I guess you could argue that it has nothing to do with Lelie -- Jackson is being drafted to groom to take over for Smith when he retires in a couple years. This makes sense, and he could be ready by that time...but what happens to the rest of the team in the meantime? We are built to win now...we need to get over that hump and get back to the Super Bowl. Jackson won't help us do that.

      Comment


      • #33
        Man Perry...you're crazy.

        Jackson has good hands...he has ability.

        Terrell, Adams, and Watts have yet to show theirs in the NFL careers.

        We run a west coast offense here. More than likely three receivers will be used on at least 1/3 of the plays.

        The purpose is to spread the defense. Chad Jackson gives you that ability.

        Bottom line...at 15, he is a good pick. You're screaming about Lelie. I like him. I just don't think he's been able to live up to everything he's capable of yet. That doesn't mean I give up on him. He's still better than half the receivers in the league.

        You're thinking about now...and for the last time, this D. Williams crap has got to stop.

        HE CANNOT CATCH THE FOOTBALL! I know we don't throw that often to backs out of the backfield, but when it's needed, that means we have to bench him in favor of Tatum. ANY SMART COACH WORTH HIS LICK will take notice of this.

        He is a ONE DIMENSIONAL BACK. I'd rather have White than him. Maroney is an all-purpose back with the ability to do it all. I woudn't have him returning kicks.

        But you're talking immediate impact. WE DON'T need TWO BRUISING BACKS. That's why we let Anderson go. He was not a speed or skill back. We need some speed to mix that up. Neither White nor Williams have the all-around talent that the Broncos need. Laurence Maroney is the answer for that.

        He can catch, he can run, he has great vision in the trenches. CASE IN POINT...he beat out Marion Barber III for the starting job up there.

        IN CASE you haven't noticed, Barber, even with a shaky Cowboy O-Line was impressive in replacing Julius Jones down here in Dallas. Bill Parcells trusted him to carry the ball. That means a lot. That should tell you that Maroney is a special player right there. With an offensive line like Denver's, you could see him put up even bigger numbers than Reggie Bush!

        Bottom line...PEOPLE THAT LOAD UP FOR NOW, usually end up paying for it. Invest in the future. You know your star receiver is leaving soon...YOU HAVE TO FIND HIS HEIR!

        You can have the best quarterback, O-Line, and Running back you want, but if you don't have a good receiver, you're screwed with a one - dimensional offense. ASK PHILADELPHIA what happened after good ole' T.O. left the building!
        Last edited by ElwaystillKing; 04-07-2006, 02:45 AM.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by ElwaystillKing
          Man Perry...you're crazy.

          Jackson has good hands...he has ability.

          Terrell, Adams, and Watts have yet to show theirs in the NFL careers.

          We run a west coast offense here. More than likely three receivers will be used on at least 1/3 of the plays.

          The purpose is to spread the defense. Chad Jackson gives you that ability.

          Bottom line...at 15, he is a good pick. You're screaming about Lelie. I like him. I just don't think he's been able to live up to everything he's capable of yet. That doesn't mean I give up on him. He's still better than half the receivers in the league.

          You're thinking about now...and for the last time, this D. Williams crap has got to stop.

          HE CANNOT CATCH THE FOOTBALL!
          I know we don't throw that often to backs out of the backfield, but when it's needed, that means we have to bench him in favor of Tatum. ANY SMART COACH WORTH HIS LICK will take notice of this.

          He is a ONE DIMENSIONAL BACK. I'd rather have White than him. Maroney is an all-purpose back with the ability to do it all. I woudn't have him returning kicks.

          But you're talking immediate impact. WE DON'T need TWO BRUISING BACKS. That's why we let Anderson go. He was not a speed or skill back. We need some speed to mix that up. Neither White nor Williams have the all-around talent that the Broncos need. Laurence Maroney is the answer for that.

          He can catch, he can run, he has great vision in the trenches. CASE IN POINT...he beat out Marion Barber III for the starting job up there.

          IN CASE you haven't noticed, Barber, even with a shaky Cowboy O-Line was impressive in replacing Julius Jones down here in Dallas. Bill Parcells trusted him to carry the ball. That means a lot. That should tell you that Maroney is a special player right there. With an offensive line like Denver's, you could see him put up even bigger numbers than Reggie Bush!

          Bottom line...PEOPLE THAT LOAD UP FOR NOW, usually end up paying for it. Invest in the future. You know your star receiver is leaving soon...YOU HAVE TO FIND HIS HEIR!

          You can have the best quarterback, O-Line, and Running back you want, but if you don't have a good receiver, you're screwed with a one - dimensional offense. ASK PHILADELPHIA what happened after good ole' T.O. left the building!


          man, this post is just wrong in so many ways. . .


          first and foremost: i think you're really a cowgirls fan masquerading as a broncos fan! IF you're really a broncos fan, enough about the cowgirls already!


          secondly-- when was the last time a team with an elite WR won the super bowl? answer that simple question to preserve your credibility. . . does 1999 ring a bell?

          third-- you say deangelo williams can't catch? bah, he's got hands as good or better than any back in this draft not named reggie bush! i challenge you to find a single credible draft resource, online or in print, that says otherwise!

          as for your idea that we need maroney and jackson because speed on offense is what it takes to win a championship-- tatum bell runs a far faster 40 than maroney, and lelie was at least as fast as jackson, if not faster. . . thanks for wanting to make us into indy or KC, we've all seen how well they've done in the playoffs. . .
          Officially Objectified by the GPA

          rest in peace, darrent williams and damien nash-- you will be missed!!

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by ElwaystillKing
            Man Perry...you're crazy.

            ....

            HE CANNOT CATCH THE FOOTBALL! I know we don't throw that often to backs out of the backfield, but when it's needed, that means we have to bench him in favor of Tatum. ANY SMART COACH WORTH HIS LICK will take notice of this.

            He is a ONE DIMENSIONAL BACK. I'd rather have White than him. Maroney is an all-purpose back with the ability to do it all. I woudn't have him returning kicks.

            Dogfish hit most of it on the head, but suggesting that Williams would have to be benched in favor of Tatum to catch the ball is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever heard. Tatum probably has the worst case of stone-hands I have ever seen. This makes me wonder if you even watch the Broncos play.

            Williams has shown nothing but being a complete back. Especially catching the football. Chad Jackson made a name for himself at the skills competition in the "best hands" drill. Well, did you know that DeAngelo took 4th in that competition? Now you do. That's awesome for a RB competing against a bunch of receivers.

            If you had any clue about Denver whatsoever, you'd know that Dayne has the best hands of any of our backs, and Tatum is a joke when it comes to catching the ball. And Williams has it all...gritty inside running ability, makes great cuts, has great vision, is a team player, has the speed to take it the distance...there's nothing that he lacks.

            The next time Denver has a chance to draft a back with his ability in the next decade is when we go 4-12 or worse.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Perry1977
              Ahhh. I was under the impression that he had a tendency to "disappear" often during the course of games. And it's not so much that I am against Jackson per se, it's that I am against wasting the 15th pick on him when there is talent that dwarfs his at other, more immediately impactful positions.

              Besides, he is not an aggressive blocker, but to be fair Lelie really wasn't when we drafted him, either, and he has come around. Also, he doesn't return punts, and unless we can afford a luxury roster spot for a returner, that doesn't help him get here either.

              Defensive Tackle, Running Back, Tight End, and Defensive End are all positions we need worse than wide receiver.

              There's not really going to be a TE at 15 that is worth that pick, so that can be scratched.

              Defensive tackle would definitely be the way to go if Bunkley or Ngata were somehow on the board, but chances are against that.

              DeAngelo Williams would be an absolute steal at 15; if he had come out last year he could have supplanted one of the top three backs and gone in the top-five. The value of that pick is tremendous, he would contribute greatly right away, and we would have a back more complete than we will have the chance to draft in the next 10 years. He is an elite prospect.

              Defensive Ends...Lawson is probably worth the pick, and Wimbley may be as well. Both guys have seen their stock soaring and we still don't have that speed rusher (I think the Lang thing is a mistake, he's too damned old to still have the type of explosion we need). Many feel that signing him will eliminate the possibilty of us drafting a DE at all, and they may be right.

              In my opinion, there's just no way that Chad Jackson can come in here and have as much impact as Williams, Bunkley, Ngata, Lawson or Wimbley would have. He won't beat out Lelie, and will probably be battling Terrell or Adams for the 3rd spot. We'd almost have to keep Adams then, because we'd need a punt returner.

              It just doesn't make sense to me that we would take such a huge gamble on a guy who won't contribute much, when there are so many more good prospects deeper in the draft. That's why I don't want Jackson.
              I guess the difference in our Chad Jackson opinions is that I feel like Jackson is a solid value pick at #15, and you think he's a reach. I've cited his sheer talent and production in the SEC as to why I feel #15 isn't a reach. Even if he ran a 4.40 (which frankly would've disappointed me), he'd still be a good pick at #15.

              No, Jackson's not an aggresive blocker, but his great work ethic and Heimerdinger's coaching should change that. He has disappeared in games, but what receiver doesn't? I mean, the best receivers only get the ball 6 or 7 times a game. As far as returns, it's not the smartest thing in the world to take a first round player to return kicks because they'll likely eventually be a starter as well. Then we'd just have the same dilemma we have now with Darrent Williams.

              If either Bunkley or Ngata is there, I too would take him without hesitation. I agree with TEs - outside of Davis, none should even be considered for a first round pick.

              DE is a position where I feel like the best one not named Mario will still be available at #22. That, of course, is Mathias Kiwanuka. If we drafted him, I'd be ecstatic. But as you mentioned in your post, the Lang signing, as well as retaining Ekuban, Brown and Engelberger, is a bad sign. Combine that with how the team is on Corey Jackson, and it leads me to believe the team one draft DE in round 1.

              The reason I don't like DeAngelo at #15 is because he should be around at #22. And if, for some reason, New England takes him and not Lawson or Wimbley, then Maroney should still be there. So RB in general is not a good value pick at #15.

              You listed some players that Chad Jackson won't have the same impact as while he's a rookie. The problem is, we have no shot at the DTs, and the front office probably won't draft a DE, no matter how much we fans want it. So why not take Chad Jackson AND DeAngelo Williams? To me, that would be an ideal first round.
              Last edited by PsychoChicken; 04-07-2006, 11:41 AM.
              A proponent of Denver drafting Cutler since 10/05.

              So naturally, my Adopt-A-Bronco is Jay Cutler!

              Comment


              • #37
                Good lord, give the guy a chance

                Let me give my 2 cents. First of all, I've been a Bronco fan since the 80s with the 3 amigos. I followed my favorite UF receiver, Ricky Nattiel, to Denver and have been following them ever since. I have not missed a UF home game since 1990. First, I'm not sure who this Perry person is, but he is completely off on CJ. Chad is simply the most amazing WR I've seen at UF. The idea that he isn't a deep threat is completely off base. He averaged 22 ypc under Zook's offense in 2004. This year, in the first two games, he caught 15 passes for 243 yards and 4 tds. That comes out to about 17 ypc I believe. In the 3rd game vs. Tennessee, our underneath WR, Andre Caldwell, broke his hip and he missed the rest of the season. When that happened, our lack of depth at WR allowed teams to double up on Chad. It also forced him to run our underneath routes and become more of a possession receiver. The guy can flat out fly. He also makes better adjustments mid air than any other receiver I've watched. He is stronger than any DB that tries to cover him and will get out of any jams on the line. Any people who think a freakin WAC receiver is in the same class as Jackson is insane. The guy who started this thead shows he clearly has never watched a college football game. Trying to compare WR stats between a WAC wr and SEC wr is ridiculous. I hope that if Denver is lucky enough to get CJ, fans will at least give the guy a chance. Remeber the last time Denver took a WR from a small conference, Darius Watts, who had great stats at Marshall, look where that pick has taken them...

                Comment


                • #38
                  People that are not impressed with Chad Jackson's numbers need to realize that Florida is no longer in a Fun 'n Gun offense. Urban Meyer has a run first approach that uses some option. In my opinion, those are very good numbers against quality competition (SEC) for somebody in that kind of scheme. He also has very good size for his speed. He will be a valuable assett to any team



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                  Myself, Shawn (a chefs fan) and Mike on our way home from the Sand Trap in June '06. (Mildenhall AFB)

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by gatorbronco25
                    Let me give my 2 cents. First of all, I've been a Bronco fan since the 80s with the 3 amigos. I followed my favorite UF receiver, Ricky Nattiel, to Denver and have been following them ever since. I have not missed a UF home game since 1990. First, I'm not sure who this Perry person is, but he is completely off on CJ. Chad is simply the most amazing WR I've seen at UF. The idea that he isn't a deep threat is completely off base. He averaged 22 ypc under Zook's offense in 2004. This year, in the first two games, he caught 15 passes for 243 yards and 4 tds. That comes out to about 17 ypc I believe. In the 3rd game vs. Tennessee, our underneath WR, Andre Caldwell, broke his hip and he missed the rest of the season. When that happened, our lack of depth at WR allowed teams to double up on Chad. It also forced him to run our underneath routes and become more of a possession receiver. The guy can flat out fly. He also makes better adjustments mid air than any other receiver I've watched. He is stronger than any DB that tries to cover him and will get out of any jams on the line. Any people who think a freakin WAC receiver is in the same class as Jackson is insane. The guy who started this thead shows he clearly has never watched a college football game. Trying to compare WR stats between a WAC wr and SEC wr is ridiculous. I hope that if Denver is lucky enough to get CJ, fans will at least give the guy a chance. Remeber the last time Denver took a WR from a small conference, Darius Watts, who had great stats at Marshall, look where that pick has taken them...

                    Well I am not sure who you are, outside of a troll and a Florida homer, and it's fairly evident that you are having a little trouble with understanding this post, which is understandable.

                    Chad Jackson might be a great receiver, fine. Good for him. Here's a cookie for him and one for you, too! The point is, he's not going to make an impact with this team like other picks available at 15 would.

                    As far as your rambling about the SEC and Marshall, that is a stupid argument. Watts was drafted in the second round, and was considered by many to be a reach at that. A more fair comparison would be another Marshall receiver drafted in the 1st round. Would you care to put some money on Randy Moss's rookie numbers versus what Jackson is going to put up? $1,000 sound okay? Let me know.

                    Jackson won't crack the starting lineup for at least 2 years, but who knows, maybe by then we will have a quarterback that can actually hit the deep route.

                    I would be okay with the pick if we land Williams or White with 22. I am not sold on Maroney, but who knows? But if we pick Jackson and miss out on an elite running back, I am going to consider that a big mistake until it's proven otherwise.
                    Last edited by Perry1977; 04-08-2006, 09:36 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Jovon Bouknight 5catch 54yds 10.8avg 1TD 18long
                      Chad Jackson 10catch 138yds 13.8avg 3TD 26long
                      Just as a note this is what Chad Jackson did against Wyoming. I threw in Jovon Bouknight because well I am a homer.

                      BTW Jovon also had a 31yd reverse and a 66 yd KO Return. And to be fair Chad had a 5 yd run for score.

                      LA Tech
                      Chad Jackson 5 105 21.0 1 80

                      Kentucky
                      Chad Jackson 9 105 11.7 2 36

                      Florida St.
                      Chad Jackson 9 97 10.8 1 29

                      Alabama
                      Chad Jackson 8 50 6.3 0 15

                      Georgia
                      Chad Jackson 3 21 7.0 0 21

                      Here is Chad Jackson in what I consider his other two easy Games and probably his hardest 3 games although I can be convinced otherwise.
                      Last edited by rugbythug; 04-08-2006, 10:08 AM.
                      http://216.58.161.132/forums/showthread.php?p=497087#post497087

                      Above I will list all my predictions for the 2005 season.

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