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Trading Lelie and Acquiring Javon Walker would be Disastrous

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  • Trading Lelie and Acquiring Javon Walker would be Disastrous

    Right now there is ALOT of uncertainty at the reciever position. By adding Javon Walker at the ultimate expense of Ashley Lelie would be a huge mistake by the front office. HUGE. Javon Walker is only beneficial to us if Ashley is still on the roster. If he is not we are right back to square one or worse after Rod retires. Trading for Javon does fill some holes for us if he can get back to 04-05 form. But that is not a given. In order to combat ineffectiveness the broncos not only need to Add Javon, they need to keep Lelie and Draft a Wide receiver at 15. That way you they position themselves to be SET at a position they have struggled to find talent at the past Decade.

    First Four Picks

    15 - Santonio Holmes - WR - Ohio St
    37 - Traded To Green Bay for Javon Walker
    61 - Claude Wroten - DT - LSU
    68 - Pat Watkins - S - Florida State

    The Broncos would enter the season with a WR depth Chart looking like this.

    Rod Smith, Javon Walker, Ashley Lelie, Santonio Holmes, David Terrell, Darius Watts.

    Rod Smith is 36 his production for this season is a question mark.
    Javon Walker is coming off an ACL injury his production for this season is ?
    Ashley Lelie is trying to develop consistency his production is a ?
    Santonio Holmes is a Rookie WR his production for the season is a ?
    David Terrell is a Talented Bust his production for the season is a?
    Darius Watts didnt play at all last year his production is a ?

    Acquiring Holmes and Walker, BUT keeping Lelie sets us up for the future as well as makes up for any misteps that the recievers we have now during the season. Nothing is guranteed from our Wideouts. Rod could fall off the map. Ashley could get 1500 yards. the future definately looks brighter under this scenario. Santonio plays special teams and waits a year for Rods departure.

    Also keep in mind. Mike Shannahan has been DYING to be able to get in 3 wideout sets and run the ball. Clinton Portis wasnt very efficient at this and the last couple of years we havent had viable personell. Tatum Bell however excells at running the ball without a fullback. With this group of recievers Mikes mind can run free. Dont let go of Ashley just yet.
    A Wise Man Once Told Me Dont Argue With Fools Cuz People From a Distance Cant Tell Who is Who

  • #2
    JAVON WALKER @ 80% is better then Ashley Lelie was, is, or ever will be!!!!!
    sigpic

    Thanks to dbfan2007 for sig

    Comment


    • #3
      how do we plan on having rod's salary as a #1 wr, a first RD WR in Lelie that thinks he can be a #1, a guy who is a #1 right now in Walker along with a 1st RD'er this year? Thats 4 guys who are either #1 WR or want to be and will want a decent contract!

      Comment


      • #4
        No, it wouldn't be disasterous. Javon Walker is a better player than Ashley Lelie.

        He'd fit in our system much better than the one trick pony Ashley Lelie.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by MilitantDBFan
          Right now there is ALOT of uncertainty at the reciever position. By adding Javon Walker at the ultimate expense of Ashley Lelie would be a huge mistake by the front office. HUGE. Javon Walker is only beneficial to us if Ashley is still on the roster. If he is not we are right back to square one or worse after Rod retires. Trading for Javon does fill some holes for us if he can get back to 04-05 form. But that is not a given. In order to combat ineffectiveness the broncos not only need to Add Javon, they need to keep Lelie and Draft a Wide receiver at 15. That way you they position themselves to be SET at a position they have struggled to find talent at the past Decade.

          First Four Picks

          15 - Santonio Holmes - WR - Ohio St
          37 - Traded To Green Bay for Javon Walker
          61 - Claude Wroten - DT - LSU
          68 - Pat Watkins - S - Florida State

          The Broncos would enter the season with a WR depth Chart looking like this.

          Rod Smith, Javon Walker, Ashley Lelie, Santonio Holmes, David Terrell, Darius Watts.

          Rod Smith is 36 his production for this season is a question mark.
          Javon Walker is coming off an ACL injury his production for this season is ?
          Ashley Lelie is trying to develop consistency his production is a ?
          Santonio Holmes is a Rookie WR his production for the season is a ?
          David Terrell is a Talented Bust his production for the season is a?
          Darius Watts didnt play at all last year his production is a ?

          Acquiring Holmes and Walker, BUT keeping Lelie sets us up for the future as well as makes up for any misteps that the recievers we have now during the season. Nothing is guranteed from our Wideouts. Rod could fall off the map. Ashley could get 1500 yards. the future definately looks brighter under this scenario. Santonio plays special teams and waits a year for Rods departure.

          Also keep in mind. Mike Shannahan has been DYING to be able to get in 3 wideout sets and run the ball. Clinton Portis wasnt very efficient at this and the last couple of years we havent had viable personell. Tatum Bell however excells at running the ball without a fullback. With this group of recievers Mikes mind can run free. Dont let go of Ashley just yet.
          You make a good argument. However, there are only so many pass attempts to go around. We are a run-first team and with Smith, Lelie, Walker and Holmes/Jackson, one or two of those guys is going to be very unhappy at the lack of passes coming their way.

          We need two really good receivers to start for us. And we need another good receiver for our #3 receiver. Receivers 4 - 6 won't see a lot of action unless numbers 1 - 3 get hurt or play poorly.
          "You can't take the sky from me..."
          ------
          "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

          Comment


          • #6
            LOL, you'd think we were the frickin' Eagles going after all these receivers. This would be disastrous to the franchise.

            First, no matter how many "uber" receivers we have, we're still going to run the ball more than throw.

            Second, it's still Jake throwing the ball.

            Third, who is going to return punts? Darius Watts? Rod?

            Fourth, who is going to run the ball? Dayne or Bell? What happens if one or both get hurt? Who do we put in then?

            I agree that getting walker is in all ways superior to drafting a rookie WR at 15, but doing that and STILL blowing that pick on a rookie receiver is crazy, especially on the team that ran the ball second-most in the NFL last year, and more running yards in the last decade than any other team.

            If we get Walker, the ONLY pick at 15 is DeAngelo Williams. Period. There's tons of receivers we can get later on that have as almost as much potential as Jackson or Holmes. And we need somebody to return punts.

            Why are you so enthralled with wide receivers? This is Denver, man, we run the ball!

            Comment


            • #7
              Im not deadset on drafting a reciever at 15. But the only value at 15 is at WR or DB. FACT. Do the broncos trade out or take a reciever. Time will tell. All that im saying is if Ashley was in Green Bay and Roles were reversed you guys would be wanting Ashley instead of Javon. Brett Favre had alot to do with his success. Not all of it but it is certainly something that has merit.

              Whats the point of adding Javon and Letting Lelie walk if at the end of the day when Rod retires we still only have ONE reciever. that MAY or MAY NOT be as good as he was in Green Bay coming off an ACL injury. Just think about it. You dont trade Ashley. That is my main point.

              And Perry, Santonio Holmes can return punts and Kicks. As a rookie he would play special teams and come in in the event of injury or lackluster play. Rod cant play forever. As much as we think he can, lets not forget how jerry went from 1000 yard reciever to 4th or 5th on the depth chart in one offseason.
              A Wise Man Once Told Me Dont Argue With Fools Cuz People From a Distance Cant Tell Who is Who

              Comment


              • #8
                Trading Lelie and NOT acquiring Walker would be a nuclear meltdown...

                Comment


                • #9
                  holy crap, how are we supposed to morph into the colts without peyton manning?



                  maybe we can throw the ball 70% of the time like the rams and eagles, it's worked so well for them. . . . .
                  Officially Objectified by the GPA

                  rest in peace, darrent williams and damien nash-- you will be missed!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by WABronco
                    Trading Lelie and NOT acquiring Walker would be a nuclear meltdown...


                    an epic blunder. . . . .
                    Officially Objectified by the GPA

                    rest in peace, darrent williams and damien nash-- you will be missed!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Dark Knight
                      No, it wouldn't be disasterous. Javon Walker is a better player than Ashley Lelie.

                      He'd fit in our system much better than the one trick pony Ashley Lelie.
                      So whats better Javon and thats it in a year or Javon and Ashley in a year. Trading for him and trading Ashley would be pointless because we would still only have one reciever. And thats IF Walker can come back from injury.
                      A Wise Man Once Told Me Dont Argue With Fools Cuz People From a Distance Cant Tell Who is Who

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        [QUOTE=MilitantDBFan]Im not deadset on drafting a reciever at 15. But the only value at 15 is at WR or DB. FACT. Do the broncos trade out or take a reciever. Time will tell. All that im saying is if Ashley was in Green Bay and Roles were reversed you guys would be wanting Ashley instead of Javon. Brett Favre had alot to do with his success. Not all of it but it is certainly something that has merit.

                        Whats the point of adding Javon and Letting Lelie walk if at the end of the day when Rod retires we still only have ONE reciever. that MAY or MAY NOT be as good as he was in Green Bay coming off an ACL injury. Just think about it. You dont trade Ashley. That is my main point.

                        And Perry, Santonio Holmes can return punts and Kicks. As a rookie he would play special teams and come in in the event of injury or lackluster play. Rod cant play forever. As much as we think he can, lets not forget how jerry went from 1000 yard reciever to 4th or 5th on the depth chart in one offseason.[/QUOTE

                        Brett Favre is a shadow of the hall of fame player he once was. Dont get me wrong he is still a solid QB & has more fun and desire when playing the game then any other player I can think of. Just to show you how valuable Javon Walker is & how much better he makes a Hall Of Fame QB lets take a look at Bretts 2004 campaign with Javon & his 2005 Without.

                        2004: 540 attempts 64% comp 4088 yards 7.5 ypa 30 td's 17 ints
                        2005: 607 attempts 61% comp 3881 yards 6.4 ypa 20 td's 29 ints

                        Most of his numbers are very close untill you get to the end where he goes from plus 13 with Javon to minus 9 without him on tds vs. ints. At this point in Bretts career he isnt any better then Jake as they are both prone to forcing the ball into places it shouldnt go. Javon can run all the routes as Lelie only knows how to go deep. I will take Javon every day of the week and twice on Game day.
                        sigpic

                        Thanks to dbfan2007 for sig

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                        • #13
                          Dont get caught up in numbers son. You poll ALL nfl teams in the league and all of them would choose Brett Favre over Jake Plummer. Yeah his numbers went down. But there isnt anything that says its a direct correlation between Javon being hurt and Favres numbers going down. Maybe it was the fact he Lost two starting offensive lineman. Maybe it was because Ahman Green was lost for the season. Maybe Javon being hurt. Maybe it was a combination of both. You cant make that distinction and lie it upon the shoulders of one man.

                          Brett Favre, hands down is a better quarterback than plummer. REGARDLESS of numbers. There are things on the football field Jake CANT do that brett does effortlessly. Brett Favre has the ability to lead his recievers. Allowing YAC scenarios. Jake cant do it. Look at all the catches Ashley makes. They are miracle catches. Nothing is ever in stride. That is on Jake. He either under throws Ashley or Overthrows. Thats the difference. And its something thats hard to measure. Ashley is AMAZING in the open field. But we wouldnt know we have never really seen him. Becuase Jakes inability to make progressions and lead recievers acurately. Ashley is a one trick pony because that is what the Broncos have groomed him to be. But when they put him in a position to make plays and be the focal point of the offense he shows up. Jake has alot to do with Ashley inability to be all he can be.
                          A Wise Man Once Told Me Dont Argue With Fools Cuz People From a Distance Cant Tell Who is Who

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The Sky is most certainly NOT falling

                            MilitantDB, I couldn't agree more with your original post. I've been saying this all month, Javon Walker has way too many question marks to be calling him our savior. It seems to me that people, especially those on this board, are so starved for Broncos football (and who could blame them?) that they want the team to make a move - any move - regardless of the risks. After all, its not their money they want to spend, its Pat Bowlen's. It was the same with Abraham, T.O., Moulds, and now Walker and even Ricky Williams of all people!

                            Guys, we're coming off a 13-3 season! We didn't lose anyone to free agency because management made it a priority to get those guys we wanted signed. We released 3 players, and yes it sucks to see them go, but they will be replaced by players already on our roster or through the draft.

                            Walker basically had one great season, then wants more money and misses some of training camp - only to blow out his knee in his first game back (on a side-note, how many times has a player held out and missed training camp, only to blow out a knee or something early in the season??). The fact is, he may or may not return to where he was 2 years ago. Nobody knows. Hearing people say things like "an injured Walker is better than a healthy Lelie" is baffling. He is a risk, pure and simple. Not to mention his potential character/contract issues. That being said, if we get him for the right price (say a 2nd round pick), I'll welcome him. But I will temper my expectations.

                            The Lelie situation is troubling. Trading him away, even if we get Walker in return is a bad idea in my opinion. True, we are a run-first team. But nobody wants to be one dimensional. I'm very excited about the draft and I think trading down from #22 was a great decision. But we can't count on a rookie wide receiver. The draft, as everyone knows, is a crap-shoot. There will be busts and there will be diamonds in the rough. All one has to do is look at recent drafts to see how some first-round guys are never heard from again and some mid/late-round guys become stars. Or even an undrafted free agent named Rod Smith. The draft is hit or miss.

                            The BEST way to avoid a bust is to stockpile picks like we have been doing and bring in as many guys as possible to see who sticks. The only problem with that is, under the salary cap, we might not be able to keep a lot of them and inevitably a guy we cut will go on to be a star on another team. But getting first crack at them will only help our team. I know its the dog-days of summer and we're all looking forward to the season, but we need to be patient. We can't just go signing people for the sake of signing people.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MilitantDBFan
                              Dont get caught up in numbers son. You poll ALL nfl teams in the league and all of them would choose Brett Favre over Jake Plummer. Yeah his numbers went down. But there isnt anything that says its a direct correlation between Javon being hurt and Favres numbers going down. Maybe it was the fact he Lost two starting offensive lineman. Maybe it was because Ahman Green was lost for the season. Maybe Javon being hurt. Maybe it was a combination of both. You cant make that distinction and lie it upon the shoulders of one man.

                              Brett Favre, hands down is a better quarterback than plummer. REGARDLESS of numbers. There are things on the football field Jake CANT do that brett does effortlessly. Brett Favre has the ability to lead his recievers. Allowing YAC scenarios. Jake cant do it. Look at all the catches Ashley makes. They are miracle catches. Nothing is ever in stride. That is on Jake. He either under throws Ashley or Overthrows. Thats the difference. And its something thats hard to measure. Ashley is AMAZING in the open field. But we wouldnt know we have never really seen him. Becuase Jakes inability to make progressions and lead recievers acurately. Ashley is a one trick pony because that is what the Broncos have groomed him to be. But when they put him in a position to make plays and be the focal point of the offense he shows up. Jake has alot to do with Ashley inability to be all he can be.
                              I agree and I too would take brett but Jake aint that far behind the brett that plays today. Also if you poll those same people they would all take Javon walker hands down over Ashley Lelie because there are things that he can do that Lelie can only dream ov doing someday like going accross the middle for example.
                              sigpic

                              Thanks to dbfan2007 for sig

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