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There's Always Plan B

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  • There's Always Plan B

    There's a lot of talk about trading Lelie to move up in the draft, with it being unclear exactly what we could get for him. He only has one more year on his contract, but was a first-round pick; and the draft is a bit light on good receivers this year so maybe we can get a bit more for him than he's actually worth.

    Maybe that works, maybe it doesn't. But remember that a couple of months ago there were rumors about Plan B -- B as in Bell, Tatum. Shanahan has managed to get good value when trading his running backs in the past, and maybe it's time to pull that rabbit out of the hat again. Anybody have a good idea what Bell would be worth at this point?

    Then there's Plan B+: trade both Lelie and Bell as a package. I've not heard anyone propose this, but it would seem that a team with a lot of needs in the top ten could be sold on getting both a productive receiver and a running back with the highest yards/carry in the NFL in exchange for a high but unproven draft pick.

    Nothing in this should imply that I dislike either player; I don't. It's simply a question of getting good value in a trade; Lelie should get more value this year because of the deficit of WRs in the draft, and Bell because of the strength of the Denver rushing attack.

    Does anyone have a good handle on what we could get for such a package deal, or even just Bell? Is the combination worth a 1st round pick? It would be nice to get back to having two 1st rounders. If the Redskins were willing to trade Champ plus a second-rounder for Portis....

  • #2
    i'm just curious. . . what's the fascination with trading players for draft picks? i understand in lelie's case, since he has actually received permission to seek a trade--but why does everyone want to trade bell?

    i can't help but think that people get so excited about the draft, they just can't help but think that any players we draft will come in and be better than the ones we already have-- is this close to the truth, or not?

    Officially Objectified by the GPA

    rest in peace, darrent williams and damien nash-- you will be missed!!

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    • #3
      Why trade Bell?

      .....that would be dumb

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      • #4
        exactly,

        Originally posted by The Dyna$ty
        Why trade Bell?

        .....that would be dumb

        no back is gonna come in here and do what he did last year. He's in is 3rd year, and knows the offense better than any rookie that we draft. He put up some pretty big numbers last year. If he didnt miss that 1 game he might of hit 1000.


        big ups to snk16.

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        • #5
          Bell stays or else we'll end up taking some crazy overhyped Running back in the first round!

          As far as trading Lelie...I'm sorry he's being such a big baby about this. He is on a winning team. Apparently, he hasn't learned anything from Rod Smith.

          That's another reason I lobby for Chad Jackson. He has the speed to go deep and he doesn't care how many times he touches the ball. That is quite obvious from his willingness to play in spread offenses!

          People put a lot of stock into Holmes, but he was a primary target. Chad was not. Lelie was a primary option at Hawaii. I think primary receivers come out of the draft with this big head.

          I like Lelie as much as the next guy, but he's let me down. People can blame it on Jake all that want. BOTTOM LINE...Steve Smith or T.O. would catch those balls.

          Heck ROD SMITH catches those balls. Lelie thinks he is better than he is. Once you get that ego, you have to be knocked back into reality.

          I think we need to trade Lelie to Tennessee for Billy Volek. Maybe they'll try to retain Steve McNair as their primary quarterback and groom whoever they get in the draft for backup to take over.

          Then the Broncos draft Jackson at 15. We go get Maroney at 37 unless Jacksonville picks him up first. Any balanced HB will do for depth this year. There are no superstar backs except Reggie!

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          • #6
            didnt we go into the offseason saying we could use one more playmaker on offense? and now you want to trade our only two homerun hitters for a draft pick? im going to have to pass.
            "Philosophers have hitherto merely interpreted the world in various ways; the point, however, is to change it."--Karl Marx


            "And I tell you this, that you must give an account on judgement day of every idle word you speak. The words you say now reflect your fate then; either you will be justified by them or you will be condemned."--Jesus Christ




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            • #7
              Originally posted by dogfish
              i'm just curious. . . what's the fascination with trading players for draft picks? i understand in lelie's case, since he has actually received permission to seek a trade--but why does everyone want to trade bell?

              i can't help but think that people get so excited about the draft, they just can't help but think that any players we draft will come in and be better than the ones we already have-- is this close to the truth, or not?

              "You must spread some Contributor Status around before giving it to dogfish again."

              Great pt. I think sometimes we get too excited about the draft. In the offeason its so exciting to think of the potential, and what could happen. Production isnt as "sexy", as potential.

              Same reasoning in the NBA is why you see highschool kids go ahead of guys like Chris Paul or Emeka Okafor. Knowing what you might get, and subsequently their ceiling, isnt as fun, as thinking, who knows what we will get. Maybe it will be the next MJ, but most of the time, its the next Kwame Brown.

              Enough basketball!, this is a football board. But you know what I am saying. Grass is always greener, and because Bell has been here for 2 years, we not only know his strengths, but also his weaknesses. And sometimes we dwell on those, instead of all the positives he brings (5.3 ypc, big play capability).

              The offseason shouldnt be about maknig news, its about fielding the best team for the upcoming seaosn. While trades are exciting, they arent always going to improve your team.

              PS - Some trades will, IE: Get Javon

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              • #8
                trade Bell and Lelie for #1 overall pick and then we take bush and have the#1 RB in the league for a decade

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                • #9
                  You guys didn't read what I wrote!! I said I liked Bell. And Lelie.

                  The point of trading them is that during the draft and free agency, teams will reach, overvalue and overpay players to fill a hole, and therefore we might be able to find someone who would do something stupid, like the Portis-for-Bailey trade, where we actually got a high 2nd rounder out of it too...which turned into Bell. Or else they'll trade because they're trying to get rid of a problem player and we'll get a good draft pick or a good player in return that is worth a lot more than we have to pay. Or they'll have an Abraham situation where we can lubricate a deal between two other teams and improve our draft position or personnel in the process.

                  Example: there's a little drama getting played out with Steve McNair and a certain team that sits at the third pick in round 1. McNair has one year left on his contract, but the Titans will likely take one of the top three QBs. The Ravens sit at #13, two spots above us, and are hoping that the Titans simply cut McNair and they don't have to give the Titans anything for him. The Titans would rather get something for him.

                  Both of these teams have relatively high drafting positions in the second round, and Shanahan has a good relationship with Fisher. So maybe we cut Fisher a face-saving deal where he gets something for McNair -- maybe a pick, maybe a player -- and then deal him to Baltimore for their #13 and/or their #39; if McNair isn't worth quite that much, you sweeten the pot with one of our second-rounders. With the #13 and #15 picks, you then have the firepower to move up to #4 if you want to; with the #15 and #22 we had the math for it but the #22 pick just doesn't have enough sex appeal. Or you can stay at #13 and #15 and get a very good DT and maybe the best WR or RB after Reggie Bush.

                  There are other options. #5 happens to be Green Bay, and their front office has a fiasco in the making with the Brett Favre situation. Maybe you can screw the Ravens and trade McNair and some picks/players to Green Bay for their #5...or the Lions at #9, who could also use some help at QB.

                  The basic logic with Lelie and Bell is that they're both good players who don't quite fit the system, so they could be worth more in a trade than they are on the field. Given the dearth of receivers in the draft, Lelie's trade value goes up even more. It seems to be easier for us to find RBs than it is to get quality defensive linemen, wide receivers or the complete package at tight end, so let's use our running back factory to trade for the stuff we can't seem to get.

                  The three glaring needs this team had last year were not enough sacks/D-line pressure, a poor 3rd down conversion rate, and not enough TDs in the red zone. There are two obvious players in this draft that probably go in the top six picks who could really help with fixing those problems: Mario Williams and Vernon Davis. Getting a top DT in the #9-#13 zone that can collapse the pocket alongside Warren would also help with the D-line issues and make the DEs look much better than they are.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bjoli198
                    trade Bell and Lelie for #1 overall pick and then we take bush and have the#1 RB in the league for a decade
                    .......*moves to next post*

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                    • #11
                      good post, thanks for the further explanation. . . i think you may be over-estimating bell's trade value a little, though. . . the rest of the league knows that we don't see him as being capable of handling a full workload-- i just can't see anyone giving us something that would match the production we would lose! remember, 5.3 ypc and nearly 1000 yards from a #2 RB, and serious big play ability-- a RB who the defense has to account for whenever he's on the field. . . . his value to us is bigger than his trade value. . . .

                      lelie may be a different story though, and i do think there's a pretty good chance we may see him moved on or before draft day. . . i will be absolutely sick if we move him and don't make the trade for javon walker-- trading our quality #2 and not replacing him with a rookie is a horrible mistake for a team with super bowl aspirations!!

                      my hope is that, unless we can trade lelie for walker, we acquire walker and then package lelie with either or 1st or one of our 2nds to move higher in the round, as we did with deltha o'neal. . . . if we get walker, it sounds like it will require a 2nd rounder, possibly #37, which is pretty steep-- but he should be worth it. . . i honestly think lelie has a lot more trade value than o'neal, whose play had dropped off so drastically we moved him to WR, lol. . . . teams like detroit and st. louis can't ever seem to get enough WRs, maybe one of them will take him and #15 for their 1st rounder. . . .



                      EDIT: good posts, dave and bc!

                      Last edited by dogfish; 04-22-2006, 07:56 AM.
                      Officially Objectified by the GPA

                      rest in peace, darrent williams and damien nash-- you will be missed!!

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                      • #12
                        I'd rather not trade Bell and have to draft three RBs.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SM19
                          I think that it would be a good idea to trade both of our big-play threats away.

                          Wait, no I don't.
                          Exactly what they said about the Portis/Bailey trade. Portis is your big play threat who touches the ball 25 times a game, Bailey maybe one time if he gets an INT. How can this possibly be a good trade, even with a 2nd rounder thrown in? But that logic turned out to be big time.

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