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  • Trade Down...AGAIN!

    Here's my idea...

    Most people around here like the idea of a LenDale White or DeAngelo Williams in the first, right? So do I...

    But, I'm wondering why Shanny shouldn't take a GREAT opportunity to maximize White's or Williams' value? I can't think of one reason why not (unless there's no trading partner). I've kicked this idea around for a few days now, and I believe it was also brought up by Archimedes Owl. My scenario is also predicated on Denver acquiring Javon Walker (somewhat eliminating the need for a first round receiver), which I think may become very similar to the John Abraham situation (but that's another matter).

    If I was Shanahan, the first thing I would do on draft day is contact the NY Giants and gauge their interest in a possible trade. It's widely assumed that NY's main needs in the first round will be either LB or CB.

    At LB, even with the addition of LaVar Arrington, they lack a consistent starter on the strongside. Carlos Emmons is a solid player when healthy, but he was in and out of the lineup last year. He's nearing the end of his leash at 32 years of age as well. Reggie Torbor has shown flashes, but he lacks the size and strength to consistently hold up at LOLB. The rest of the OLB includes a bust (Alonzo Jackson), a malcontent (Barrett Green), and a handful of special teamers (Chase Blackburn, Tyson Smith, Marcus Lawrence). Names like Chad Greenway, Bobby Carpenter, Demeco Ryans, and Manny Lawson should be there at 15. But, there has to be a desire to trade up for a LB from NY, and I think there would be when you consider that teams like Miami, Minnesota, Dallas, New England, San Francisco, and Tampa Bay may have significant interest in a linebacker.

    At CB, recently signed Sam Madison provides them with the consistency that they've lacked for half a decade. They've been saddled with two teaser-talents for quite some time, Will Peterson (who's career may be over due to injury) and Will Allen (UFA recently signed by Miami). They drafted Corey Webster out of LSU with their first pick last year (second round), and he played well near the end of the year. Still, their depth consists of Curtis DeLoatch (who was burned like a cheap bagel routinely last year) and R.W. McQuarters (verrry inconsistent). And now, with two other NFC East teams overhauling their receiving corps, they may find that a talented first rounder is the way to go. Again, the desire for NY must be there. I think those many of those same teams (Miami, San Diego, Kansas City, New England, San Fran, Tampa) will have significant interest in adding a first round cornerback. With a trade up to 15, NY could potentially be looking at Jimmy Williams, Antonio Cromartie, Richard Marshall, Donte Whitner, Jonathan Joseph, and Tye Hill. They can take their guy at 15, no questions asked.

    A darkhorse need for them may be wide receiver. Amani Toomer is...42 years old now? Tim Carter has speed to burn, but he can't catch a football with industrial grade super glue on his gloves. Don't forget, NY showed heavy interest in Keyshawn before he signed in Carolina. Their offense was lethal last year, but a first round receiver would assure that Eli has three elite targets (Burress, Shockey, draft pick) for the forseeable future. They may be interested in acquiring Chad Jackson or Santonio Holmes at 15 in front of teams like Miami, Dallas, San Diego, and New England.

    Now, in terms of trade-return, picks 25 and 57 equal exactly 1050 in value points. Trade 15 equals 1050 in value points. The draftpicks trade between Denver and San Fran involved exact value. Seeing a trend?

    Now, if NY wasn't interested in trading their second rounder (they need O line depth badly, so Jonathan Scott and Darryn Colledge may be their choice in the second) I wouldn't push them. I'm thinking of maximizing the value while selecting LenDale or DeAngelo (I guess you could throw Sinorice Moss, Leonard Pope, and Laurence Maroney in there as well), so I would accept a "lesser" deal involving a 3rd rounder and a future draft pick (something along those lines). We're talking about getting top-ten talents at the end of the first. Of course, if Denver senses interest from other teams (Minnesota, New England, San Francisco), then all talk of another trade down should go out the window IMO. But, with LenDale's value falling like a hot potato, why reach for him at 15? Why "reach" for DeAngelo if you feel like there isn't a team between picks 16-24 looking for a running back? If Shanny likes Sinorice Moss so much, why would he take a monumental reach by taking him at 15? There's been rumored Denver interest in Leonard Pope's direction, and he'd be a prime prospect at 25. On and on and on...

    So, adding an additional first day pick would give Shanny that extra pick to take that defensive end we've all been craving (Stanley McClover, Mark Anderson, Darryl Tapp, Victor Adeyanju). He could take an additional receiver like Demetrius Williams at 61. He could add a potential pro bowl guard in Charles Spencer or Davin Joseph without hesitation. The possibilities are endless...

    I like the idea of stocking up our roster during our competetive window in order to keep that window open longer, right? Am I crazy? Am I? Rarrrr!

  • #2
    Originally posted by WABronco
    I like the idea of stocking up our roster during our competetive window in order to keep that window open longer, right? Am I crazy? Am I? Rarrrr!
    You're crazy!


    Actually, I would have preferred that we traded our #15 pick and keep the #22. For some reason, the players likely to be available at #15 just aren't enticing to me this year from a value perspective. I think we'd still have a pretty good selection in the mid-twenties and pay less money for the player.

    I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't mind trading down again but I don't want to drop out of the first round entirely. Although if we snag one of the top DTs, I'll be fine with that at #15.
    "You can't take the sky from me..."
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    Comment


    • #3
      New York isn't the only possible partner.

      We could also see if Chicago has any interest with their 26 and 57.

      If anybody has a need at reciever, it's Chicago.

      We may be able to muster a similar trade with Carolina. We'd be losing about 60 points in a straight up trade, but that could be reconciled (or maybe it'd just be worth it with the depth in this draft.)

      And don't forget about Cincy.

      Now, NY fits very very well, but there are several similar trades that we could field. And don't forget about Tampa Bay. If we could snag one of these second rounders, we have fourth round fodder to move up in the round, but we could get a very good player at a position of need in the first and we could also land another second round pick.

      5 picks in the top 68 makes me drool.

      Drool, I tell you!!!
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      • #4
        Ideally think I would rather trade up to 11, inf front of the Browns and grab Ngata or Bunkley. If that option isnt available. I agree trade down, bc there is nothing we really need @15, other than WR. Which I dont want. So may as well move back, pick up Marony or Deangelo or Lawson at #25.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Archimedes Owl
          New York isn't the only possible partner.

          We could also see if Chicago has any interest with their 26 and 57.

          If anybody has a need at reciever, it's Chicago.

          We may be able to muster a similar trade with Carolina. We'd be losing about 60 points in a straight up trade, but that could be reconciled (or maybe it'd just be worth it with the depth in this draft.)

          And don't forget about Cincy.

          Now, NY fits very very well, but there are several similar trades that we could field. And don't forget about Tampa Bay. If we could snag one of these second rounders, we have fourth round fodder to move up in the round, but we could get a very good player at a position of need in the first and we could also land another second round pick.

          5 picks in the top 68 makes me drool.

          Drool, I tell you!!!
          Great minds think alike Archimedes!!!

          NY was the first team that popped into my head because they're at the end of that first round CB/LB "spectrum," if you will.

          Oh, I was going to mention those guys, but the sheer size of the post would've crashed the server...

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          • #6
            Watch us trade out of the first rd and then Davis, Ngata, Bunkley fall between 15 and 32.
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            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by WABronco
              Here's my idea...

              Most people around here like the idea of a LenDale White or DeAngelo Williams in the first, right? So do I...

              But, I'm wondering why Shanny shouldn't take a GREAT opportunity to maximize White's or Williams' value? I can't think of one reason why not (unless there's no trading partner). I've kicked this idea around for a few days now, and I believe it was also brought up by Archimedes Owl. My scenario is also predicated on Denver acquiring Javon Walker (somewhat eliminating the need for a first round receiver), which I think may become very similar to the John Abraham situation (but that's another matter).

              If I was Shanahan, the first thing I would do on draft day is contact the NY Giants and gauge their interest in a possible trade. It's widely assumed that NY's main needs in the first round will be either LB or CB.

              At LB, even with the addition of LaVar Arrington, they lack a consistent starter on the strongside. Carlos Emmons is a solid player when healthy, but he was in and out of the lineup last year. He's nearing the end of his leash at 32 years of age as well. Reggie Torbor has shown flashes, but he lacks the size and strength to consistently hold up at LOLB. The rest of the OLB includes a bust (Alonzo Jackson), a malcontent (Barrett Green), and a handful of special teamers (Chase Blackburn, Tyson Smith, Marcus Lawrence). Names like Chad Greenway, Bobby Carpenter, Demeco Ryans, and Manny Lawson should be there at 15. But, there has to be a desire to trade up for a LB from NY, and I think there would be when you consider that teams like Miami, Minnesota, Dallas, New England, San Francisco, and Tampa Bay may have significant interest in a linebacker.

              At CB, recently signed Sam Madison provides them with the consistency that they've lacked for half a decade. They've been saddled with two teaser-talents for quite some time, Will Peterson (who's career may be over due to injury) and Will Allen (UFA recently signed by Miami). They drafted Corey Webster out of LSU with their first pick last year (second round), and he played well near the end of the year. Still, their depth consists of Curtis DeLoatch (who was burned like a cheap bagel routinely last year) and R.W. McQuarters (verrry inconsistent). And now, with two other NFC East teams overhauling their receiving corps, they may find that a talented first rounder is the way to go. Again, the desire for NY must be there. I think those many of those same teams (Miami, San Diego, Kansas City, New England, San Fran, Tampa) will have significant interest in adding a first round cornerback. With a trade up to 15, NY could potentially be looking at Jimmy Williams, Antonio Cromartie, Richard Marshall, Donte Whitner, Jonathan Joseph, and Tye Hill. They can take their guy at 15, no questions asked.

              A darkhorse need for them may be wide receiver. Amani Toomer is...42 years old now? Tim Carter has speed to burn, but he can't catch a football with industrial grade super glue on his gloves. Don't forget, NY showed heavy interest in Keyshawn before he signed in Carolina. Their offense was lethal last year, but a first round receiver would assure that Eli has three elite targets (Burress, Shockey, draft pick) for the forseeable future. They may be interested in acquiring Chad Jackson or Santonio Holmes at 15 in front of teams like Miami, Dallas, San Diego, and New England.

              Now, in terms of trade-return, picks 25 and 57 equal exactly 1050 in value points. Trade 15 equals 1050 in value points. The draftpicks trade between Denver and San Fran involved exact value. Seeing a trend?

              Now, if NY wasn't interested in trading their second rounder (they need O line depth badly, so Jonathan Scott and Darryn Colledge may be their choice in the second) I wouldn't push them. I'm thinking of maximizing the value while selecting LenDale or DeAngelo (I guess you could throw Sinorice Moss, Leonard Pope, and Laurence Maroney in there as well), so I would accept a "lesser" deal involving a 3rd rounder and a future draft pick (something along those lines). We're talking about getting top-ten talents at the end of the first. Of course, if Denver senses interest from other teams (Minnesota, New England, San Francisco), then all talk of another trade down should go out the window IMO. But, with LenDale's value falling like a hot potato, why reach for him at 15? Why "reach" for DeAngelo if you feel like there isn't a team between picks 16-24 looking for a running back? If Shanny likes Sinorice Moss so much, why would he take a monumental reach by taking him at 15? There's been rumored Denver interest in Leonard Pope's direction, and he'd be a prime prospect at 25. On and on and on...

              So, adding an additional first day pick would give Shanny that extra pick to take that defensive end we've all been craving (Stanley McClover, Mark Anderson, Darryl Tapp, Victor Adeyanju). He could take an additional receiver like Demetrius Williams at 61. He could add a potential pro bowl guard in Charles Spencer or Davin Joseph without hesitation. The possibilities are endless...

              I like the idea of stocking up our roster during our competetive window in order to keep that window open longer, right? Am I crazy? Am I? Rarrrr!

              Yeah dude, you're nuts...lol...Something wierd is going to happen, why not your scenario?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dry Kill Logic
                Watch us trade out of the first rd and then Davis, Ngata, Bunkley fall between 15 and 32.
                Well, they can wait and try to make a draft day trade if nobody they like is still available at #15.
                "You can't take the sky from me..."
                ------
                "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Javalon
                  Well, they can wait and try to make a draft day trade if nobody they like is still available at #15.
                  Yes, that's what the team with the higher pick does when a trade is planned. In this scenario, it makes little to no sense to complete the trade before hand. It also gives NY the option of refusing the trade if their guy isn't there...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dry Kill Logic
                    Watch us trade out of the first rd and then Davis, Ngata, Bunkley fall between 15 and 32.
                    Well, the trades that we were talking about would leave us in the first round, but with a later pick.

                    Here's a quick list of potential partners:

                    Code:
                    [FONT=Courier New]Team        Picks
                    Giants      25 & 56
                    Tampa Bay   23 & 59
                    Chicago     26 & 57
                    Carolina    27 & 58[/FONT]
                    What we'd have to do is hope for somebody that one of these teams has pegged high falls to a point that to them seems like a bargain. Then they can trade up. Or, we stay where we are and hope that somebody we like falls to the bottom of the top ten. Then we could move up.

                    Either way, I'd like to see us get out of this pick.

                    And I think it would be best for us to trade back, simply because the second round has some good prospects at positions of need.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Archimedes Owl
                      ...simply because the second round has some good prospects at positions of need.
                      That's key...

                      Denver, as a team right now, has no one extreme first round need. Not at DE (due to the full depth chart), not at RB (it's Denver), not at WR (Javon Walker), not at OL (again, it's Denver), not in the secondary (a first round safety is more of a luxury pick in my eyes), not at QB (shut up haters), not at TE (second tier options would be sufficient), not at DT (ditto), and not at kicker or punter.

                      Why not make two or three draft day steals, beginning with LenDale or DeAngelo at 23, 24, 25, or 26?

                      Hello!?!?!?!?!? People, this makes perfect sense. If you disagree in the slightest, then I think you crave the "sexiness" of the 15th pick a little too much.

                      Dag nabbit! My CP's are all worn out...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ydave77
                        Ideally think I would rather trade up to 11, inf front of the Browns and grab Ngata or Bunkley. If that option isnt available. I agree trade down, bc there is nothing we really need @15, other than WR. Which I dont want. So may as well move back, pick up Marony or Deangelo or Lawson at #25.

                        I actually believe that if the Broncos were to add either of these guys, it would help the defense even more than if they added Mario or Huff.

                        My reasoning: It would free up Warren a little more, plus having two DT's that o-lines would have to respect, it would free up our DE's. If our DL is doing their job then the secondary doesn't have to cover as long and the LB's can worry more about their assignments rather that always being relied on to apply pressure on the QB.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by WABronco
                          That's key...

                          Denver, as a team right now, has no one extreme first round need. Not at DE (due to the full depth chart), not at RB (it's Denver), not at WR (Javon Walker), not at OL (again, it's Denver), not in the secondary (a first round safety is more of a luxury pick in my eyes), not at QB (shut up haters), not at TE (second tier options would be sufficient), not at DT (ditto), and not at kicker or punter.

                          Why not make two or three draft day steals, beginning with LenDale or DeAngelo at 23, 24, 25, or 26?

                          Hello!?!?!?!?!? People, this makes perfect sense. If you disagree in the slightest, then I think you crave the "sexiness" of the 15th pick a little too much.

                          Dag nabbit! My CP's are all worn out...
                          I am all up in the sexiness that is the 15th pick

                          I totally agree though with all of this, and even if Javon doesn't come here in a freak accident/GB is stupid and as long as we have Lelie, I still would be happy with a 2nd round WR.

                          Augggghhh, I need a mop for the drool.

                          until then, more champagne pick 15?

                          *why yes cinny, thanks!*

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Javalon
                            Well, they can wait and try to make a draft day trade if nobody they like is still available at #15.
                            That's right. We need to trade down IF none of the top DT/DE prospects are available at 15. We could really benefit from the extra late 2nd round choice.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I agree completely. While I think Williams will be gone if we do trade down, White or Maroney hopefully will be there. Stockpiling picks in this draft only makes sense.

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