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  • TXBRONC
    replied
    Originally posted by Javalon
    That's certainly possible. But I just don't see anybody likely to be available at #15 that we couldn't live without, this year at least.

    But that's only my opinion and the Broncos just might think otherwise. Can you believe they might not agree with me?!

    To think that they wouldn't agree with you Jav is beyond my mortal comprehension.

    I have sense hope about it. I look at last years draft and see three cbs that the same thing could have been said about them. But now with a year under their belts could we really afford not to have at the very least D Will and Foxworth?

    Leave a comment:


  • Javalon
    replied
    Originally posted by TXBRONC
    I've been thinking about why we didn't trade the 15th overall pick instead of the 22nd. The only thing I can come up with as a possibility is this. He knew there was always the possibility that he was going to get into the top five so at 15 there is a player he would want that wouldn't be there at the 22nd pick. Does this make sense?
    That's certainly possible. But I just don't see anybody likely to be available at #15 that we couldn't live without, this year at least.

    But that's only my opinion and the Broncos just might think otherwise. Can you believe they might not agree with me?!

    Leave a comment:


  • TXBRONC
    replied
    Originally posted by Javalon
    You're crazy!


    Actually, I would have preferred that we traded our #15 pick and keep the #22. For some reason, the players likely to be available at #15 just aren't enticing to me this year from a value perspective. I think we'd still have a pretty good selection in the mid-twenties and pay less money for the player.

    I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't mind trading down again but I don't want to drop out of the first round entirely. Although if we snag one of the top DTs, I'll be fine with that at #15.
    I've been thinking about why we didn't trade the 15th overall pick instead of the 22nd. The only thing I can come up with as a possibility is this. He knew there was always the possibility that he was going to get into the top five so at 15 there is a player he would want that wouldn't be there at the 22nd pick. Does this make sense?

    Leave a comment:


  • WABronco
    replied
    Bump!

    http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal..._in_it/?page=3

    Movin' on up
    If you like discussing draft trades, here's a logical one involving the Patriots. Baltimore holds the No. 13 pick, but with only two picks among the first 110 (none in the third round), it is likely to trade down for an extra selection unless Vince Young falls into its lap. The Patriots, with the 21st overall selection and a pair of third- and fourth-round choices (six picks among the first 118), are in a good position to move up to the Ravens' slot. ''From 21, you're not going to be able to get into the top 10, but you could move up a couple of spots, but then from that point on, you would have pretty good flexibility if you wanted to move forward, if you wanted to package picks together," Patriots coach Bill Belichick said. The question is, whom would the Patriots move up for? Receiver Chad Jackson of Florida, the No. 1 wideout in the draft, could be had at 13. Would the Patriots want to pay an average of $2.5 million a year for a rookie receiver with Deion Branch's contract being renegotiated? Following the industry-accepted trade chart, New England would have to give up the higher of its two third-round picks (No. 75 overall) to jump into the top 15, ahead of the Broncos, who are interested in Jackson. The Ravens are looking to deal and might accept the offer, though by the chart the Patriots would be getting a slight edge in the trade. ''Yes, we could be enticed to move that pick before we get to the 13th," Baltimore general manager Ozzie Newsome said. ''Our trade-down scenario is always if there are three or four guys we really like, and we have an opportunity to move back and still get one of those guys, plus add an additional pick -- again, from an organizational standpoint -- that is the right thing to do." If the Patriots are even more adventurous, as Belichick explained, they could take the Ravens' pick and package it with their second third-rounder (86th overall) to jump into the top 10, where Texas defensive back Michael Huff might be an option. Anything could happen on Draft Day, but expect the Patriots to be involved in a couple of trades to get the players they most like. Jackson and Huff are on that list, but it'll take some maneuvering to get either one.
    Come on Belichick, why trade all the way up to 13 when you only have to go up to 15? Muahahaha...

    Leave a comment:


  • HidEmu
    replied
    trading the 15th pick for some more 2nd and 3rd rounders would be the best move for us. taking santonio holmes with the pick is about the worst thing we could do.

    Leave a comment:


  • Archimedes Owl
    replied
    Originally posted by WABronco
    I honestly think Atlanta took only a third because they were also getting Abraham. Maybe? Sounds corny, but maybe Denver's pick was a HUGE deal breaker or something...
    Yeah, but if I were them, I'd try to get whatever I could out of moving back. I mean, pointswise, our first and second (or Indy's or Jacksonville's) would have been a huge steal for us still, but instead they settle for a late third.

    I remember some Falcons fan coming on here back then saying that they just traded back as far as they could for the sole purpose of spiting the Jets (or something like that).

    Who knows, but it's unsettling to me. I worry that we'll have trouble finding a dance partner back there, but there are several options, so we'll see.

    Leave a comment:


  • WABronco
    replied
    Originally posted by Archimedes Owl
    It's also possible that the top ten talent to fall is somebody that's not at a position of need. That's when we could probably pull the trigger and trade back.

    But if Bunkley started to really fall, Denver would be wise to stick around and maybe even trade up a bit for him.

    And you're right about moving back.

    I mean, consider the last team that tried to move back in the draft.

    Consider that to move from 15 all of the way to 29, Atlanta only got a late 3rd in exchange!!!

    Was this because they were on a time constraint??

    Was this because none of the teams in the latter half of the round wanted that pick??

    Will one of them want to trade down if somebody at a position that we don't need falls to us??

    Or if the Eagles take one of the recievers, could it be that a team like Chicago could be enticed to move down (Though, they could get a tight end at that pick)??

    I don't know, but I'd love for this to somehow work out.
    I honestly think Atlanta took only a third because they were also getting Abraham. Maybe? Sounds corny, but maybe Denver's pick was a HUGE deal breaker or something...

    Leave a comment:


  • Archimedes Owl
    replied
    Originally posted by Cugel
    You haven't gotten the credit you deserve for this idea! I like it a lot!

    Actually I don't know enough about what the Giants are thinking to know whether they'd be interested in trading up, but it certainly makes some sense.

    I think that if the player Shanahan is targeting at #15 gets taken (say, Santonio Holmes by Philly) then he will be working the phones frantically during that 15 minute stretch, trying to trade down to later in the round.

    The problem comes when nobody wants to trade up badly enough, because they all figure it's a deep draft and they can still get talented players just by staying put and won't have to pay them as much.

    Look at all the problems N.O. and Texas have had trying to find trade partners who want their #1 or #2 picks! In most years there would be no problem getting somebody desparate to move up and grab that franchise QB, but with 3 of them in the top 10. . .

    This year, there might be 15 players with top 10 ability. Hopefully somebody falls to the Broncos. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for Broderick Bunkley personally!
    It's also possible that the top ten talent to fall is somebody that's not at a position of need. That's when we could probably pull the trigger and trade back.

    But if Bunkley started to really fall, Denver would be wise to stick around and maybe even trade up a bit for him.

    And you're right about moving back.

    I mean, consider the last team that tried to move back in the draft.

    Consider that to move from 15 all of the way to 29, Atlanta only got a late 3rd in exchange!!!

    Was this because they were on a time constraint??

    Was this because none of the teams in the latter half of the round wanted that pick??

    Will one of them want to trade down if somebody at a position that we don't need falls to us??

    Or if the Eagles take one of the recievers, could it be that a team like Chicago could be enticed to move down (Though, they could get a tight end at that pick)??

    I don't know, but I'd love for this to somehow work out.

    Leave a comment:


  • WABronco
    replied
    Originally posted by Cugel
    You haven't gotten the credit you deserve for this idea! I like it a lot!

    Actually I don't know enough about what the Giants are thinking to know whether they'd be interested in trading up, but it certainly makes some sense.

    I think that if the player Shanahan is targeting at #15 gets taken (say, Santonio Holmes by Philly) then he will be working the phones frantically during that 15 minute stretch, trying to trade down to later in the round.

    The problem comes when nobody wants to trade up badly enough, because they all figure it's a deep draft and they can still get talented players just by staying put and won't have to pay them as much.

    Look at all the problems N.O. and Texas have had trying to find trade partners who want their #1 or #2 picks! In most years there would be no problem getting somebody desparate to move up and grab that franchise QB, but with 3 of them in the top 10. . .

    This year, there might be 15 players with top 10 ability. Hopefully somebody falls to the Broncos. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for Broderick Bunkley personally!
    Well, yes, if someone like Bunkley falls, then I say screw it and draft him. And just to be clear (as there was some confusion before), I'm not advocating this deal as a pre-draft trade. I'm thinking as soon as our 15 start, you know? But, I'd like to think that the two teams would have some groundwork to a deal already put together.

    I think there has to be at least one team in that group that wants to get the leg up on everyone else so they can get "their guy."

    Leave a comment:


  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by WABronco
    Here's my idea...

    Most people around here like the idea of a LenDale White or DeAngelo Williams in the first, right? So do I...

    But, I'm wondering why Shanny shouldn't take a GREAT opportunity to maximize White's or Williams' value? I can't think of one reason why not (unless there's no trading partner). I've kicked this idea around for a few days now, and I believe it was also brought up by Archimedes Owl. My scenario is also predicated on Denver acquiring Javon Walker (somewhat eliminating the need for a first round receiver), which I think may become very similar to the John Abraham situation (but that's another matter).

    If I was Shanahan, the first thing I would do on draft day is contact the NY Giants and gauge their interest in a possible trade. It's widely assumed that NY's main needs in the first round will be either LB or CB.

    At LB, even with the addition of LaVar Arrington, they lack a consistent starter on the strongside. Carlos Emmons is a solid player when healthy, but he was in and out of the lineup last year. He's nearing the end of his leash at 32 years of age as well. Reggie Torbor has shown flashes, but he lacks the size and strength to consistently hold up at LOLB. The rest of the OLB includes a bust (Alonzo Jackson), a malcontent (Barrett Green), and a handful of special teamers (Chase Blackburn, Tyson Smith, Marcus Lawrence). Names like Chad Greenway, Bobby Carpenter, Demeco Ryans, and Manny Lawson should be there at 15. But, there has to be a desire to trade up for a LB from NY, and I think there would be when you consider that teams like Miami, Minnesota, Dallas, New England, San Francisco, and Tampa Bay may have significant interest in a linebacker.

    At CB, recently signed Sam Madison provides them with the consistency that they've lacked for half a decade. They've been saddled with two teaser-talents for quite some time, Will Peterson (who's career may be over due to injury) and Will Allen (UFA recently signed by Miami). They drafted Corey Webster out of LSU with their first pick last year (second round), and he played well near the end of the year. Still, their depth consists of Curtis DeLoatch (who was burned like a cheap bagel routinely last year) and R.W. McQuarters (verrry inconsistent). And now, with two other NFC East teams overhauling their receiving corps, they may find that a talented first rounder is the way to go. Again, the desire for NY must be there. I think those many of those same teams (Miami, San Diego, Kansas City, New England, San Fran, Tampa) will have significant interest in adding a first round cornerback. With a trade up to 15, NY could potentially be looking at Jimmy Williams, Antonio Cromartie, Richard Marshall, Donte Whitner, Jonathan Joseph, and Tye Hill. They can take their guy at 15, no questions asked.

    A darkhorse need for them may be wide receiver. Amani Toomer is...42 years old now? Tim Carter has speed to burn, but he can't catch a football with industrial grade super glue on his gloves. Don't forget, NY showed heavy interest in Keyshawn before he signed in Carolina. Their offense was lethal last year, but a first round receiver would assure that Eli has three elite targets (Burress, Shockey, draft pick) for the forseeable future. They may be interested in acquiring Chad Jackson or Santonio Holmes at 15 in front of teams like Miami, Dallas, San Diego, and New England.

    Now, in terms of trade-return, picks 25 and 57 equal exactly 1050 in value points. Trade 15 equals 1050 in value points. The draftpicks trade between Denver and San Fran involved exact value. Seeing a trend?

    Now, if NY wasn't interested in trading their second rounder (they need O line depth badly, so Jonathan Scott and Darryn Colledge may be their choice in the second) I wouldn't push them. I'm thinking of maximizing the value while selecting LenDale or DeAngelo (I guess you could throw Sinorice Moss, Leonard Pope, and Laurence Maroney in there as well), so I would accept a "lesser" deal involving a 3rd rounder and a future draft pick (something along those lines). We're talking about getting top-ten talents at the end of the first. Of course, if Denver senses interest from other teams (Minnesota, New England, San Francisco), then all talk of another trade down should go out the window IMO. But, with LenDale's value falling like a hot potato, why reach for him at 15? Why "reach" for DeAngelo if you feel like there isn't a team between picks 16-24 looking for a running back? If Shanny likes Sinorice Moss so much, why would he take a monumental reach by taking him at 15? There's been rumored Denver interest in Leonard Pope's direction, and he'd be a prime prospect at 25. On and on and on...

    So, adding an additional first day pick would give Shanny that extra pick to take that defensive end we've all been craving (Stanley McClover, Mark Anderson, Darryl Tapp, Victor Adeyanju). He could take an additional receiver like Demetrius Williams at 61. He could add a potential pro bowl guard in Charles Spencer or Davin Joseph without hesitation. The possibilities are endless...

    I like the idea of stocking up our roster during our competetive window in order to keep that window open longer, right? Am I crazy? Am I? Rarrrr!
    You haven't gotten the credit you deserve for this idea! I like it a lot!

    Actually I don't know enough about what the Giants are thinking to know whether they'd be interested in trading up, but it certainly makes some sense.

    I think that if the player Shanahan is targeting at #15 gets taken (say, Santonio Holmes by Philly) then he will be working the phones frantically during that 15 minute stretch, trying to trade down to later in the round.

    The problem comes when nobody wants to trade up badly enough, because they all figure it's a deep draft and they can still get talented players just by staying put and won't have to pay them as much.

    Look at all the problems N.O. and Texas have had trying to find trade partners who want their #1 or #2 picks! In most years there would be no problem getting somebody desparate to move up and grab that franchise QB, but with 3 of them in the top 10. . .

    This year, there might be 15 players with top 10 ability. Hopefully somebody falls to the Broncos. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for Broderick Bunkley personally!

    Leave a comment:


  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by WABronco
    Here's my idea...

    Most people around here like the idea of a LenDale White or DeAngelo Williams in the first, right? So do I...

    But, I'm wondering why Shanny shouldn't take a GREAT opportunity to maximize White's or Williams' value? I can't think of one reason why not (unless there's no trading partner). I've kicked this idea around for a few days now, and I believe it was also brought up by Archimedes Owl. My scenario is also predicated on Denver acquiring Javon Walker (somewhat eliminating the need for a first round receiver), which I think may become very similar to the John Abraham situation (but that's another matter).

    If I was Shanahan, the first thing I would do on draft day is contact the NY Giants and gauge their interest in a possible trade. It's widely assumed that NY's main needs in the first round will be either LB or CB.

    At LB, even with the addition of LaVar Arrington, they lack a consistent starter on the strongside. Carlos Emmons is a solid player when healthy, but he was in and out of the lineup last year. He's nearing the end of his leash at 32 years of age as well. Reggie Torbor has shown flashes, but he lacks the size and strength to consistently hold up at LOLB. The rest of the OLB includes a bust (Alonzo Jackson), a malcontent (Barrett Green), and a handful of special teamers (Chase Blackburn, Tyson Smith, Marcus Lawrence). Names like Chad Greenway, Bobby Carpenter, Demeco Ryans, and Manny Lawson should be there at 15. But, there has to be a desire to trade up for a LB from NY, and I think there would be when you consider that teams like Miami, Minnesota, Dallas, New England, San Francisco, and Tampa Bay may have significant interest in a linebacker.

    At CB, recently signed Sam Madison provides them with the consistency that they've lacked for half a decade. They've been saddled with two teaser-talents for quite some time, Will Peterson (who's career may be over due to injury) and Will Allen (UFA recently signed by Miami). They drafted Corey Webster out of LSU with their first pick last year (second round), and he played well near the end of the year. Still, their depth consists of Curtis DeLoatch (who was burned like a cheap bagel routinely last year) and R.W. McQuarters (verrry inconsistent). And now, with two other NFC East teams overhauling their receiving corps, they may find that a talented first rounder is the way to go. Again, the desire for NY must be there. I think those many of those same teams (Miami, San Diego, Kansas City, New England, San Fran, Tampa) will have significant interest in adding a first round cornerback. With a trade up to 15, NY could potentially be looking at Jimmy Williams, Antonio Cromartie, Richard Marshall, Donte Whitner, Jonathan Joseph, and Tye Hill. They can take their guy at 15, no questions asked.

    A darkhorse need for them may be wide receiver. Amani Toomer is...42 years old now? Tim Carter has speed to burn, but he can't catch a football with industrial grade super glue on his gloves. Don't forget, NY showed heavy interest in Keyshawn before he signed in Carolina. Their offense was lethal last year, but a first round receiver would assure that Eli has three elite targets (Burress, Shockey, draft pick) for the forseeable future. They may be interested in acquiring Chad Jackson or Santonio Holmes at 15 in front of teams like Miami, Dallas, San Diego, and New England.

    Now, in terms of trade-return, picks 25 and 57 equal exactly 1050 in value points. Trade 15 equals 1050 in value points. The draftpicks trade between Denver and San Fran involved exact value. Seeing a trend?

    Now, if NY wasn't interested in trading their second rounder (they need O line depth badly, so Jonathan Scott and Darryn Colledge may be their choice in the second) I wouldn't push them. I'm thinking of maximizing the value while selecting LenDale or DeAngelo (I guess you could throw Sinorice Moss, Leonard Pope, and Laurence Maroney in there as well), so I would accept a "lesser" deal involving a 3rd rounder and a future draft pick (something along those lines). We're talking about getting top-ten talents at the end of the first. Of course, if Denver senses interest from other teams (Minnesota, New England, San Francisco), then all talk of another trade down should go out the window IMO. But, with LenDale's value falling like a hot potato, why reach for him at 15? Why "reach" for DeAngelo if you feel like there isn't a team between picks 16-24 looking for a running back? If Shanny likes Sinorice Moss so much, why would he take a monumental reach by taking him at 15? There's been rumored Denver interest in Leonard Pope's direction, and he'd be a prime prospect at 25. On and on and on...

    So, adding an additional first day pick would give Shanny that extra pick to take that defensive end we've all been craving (Stanley McClover, Mark Anderson, Darryl Tapp, Victor Adeyanju). He could take an additional receiver like Demetrius Williams at 61. He could add a potential pro bowl guard in Charles Spencer or Davin Joseph without hesitation. The possibilities are endless...

    I like the idea of stocking up our roster during our competetive window in order to keep that window open longer, right? Am I crazy? Am I? Rarrrr!
    You haven't gotten the credit you deserve for this idea! I like it a lot!

    Actually I don't know enough about what the Giants are thinking to know whether they'd be interested in trading up, but it certainly makes some sense.

    I think that if the player Shanahan is targeting at #15 gets taken (say, Santonio Holmes by Philly) then he will be working the phones frantically during that 15 minute stretch, trying to trade down to later in the round.

    The problem comes when nobody wants to trade up badly enough, because they all figure it's a deep draft and they can still get talented players just by staying put and won't have to pay them as much.

    Leave a comment:


  • Perry1977
    replied
    I agree completely. While I think Williams will be gone if we do trade down, White or Maroney hopefully will be there. Stockpiling picks in this draft only makes sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • dare2bme
    replied
    Originally posted by Javalon
    Well, they can wait and try to make a draft day trade if nobody they like is still available at #15.
    That's right. We need to trade down IF none of the top DT/DE prospects are available at 15. We could really benefit from the extra late 2nd round choice.

    Leave a comment:


  • cinnamunmun
    replied
    Originally posted by WABronco
    That's key...

    Denver, as a team right now, has no one extreme first round need. Not at DE (due to the full depth chart), not at RB (it's Denver), not at WR (Javon Walker), not at OL (again, it's Denver), not in the secondary (a first round safety is more of a luxury pick in my eyes), not at QB (shut up haters), not at TE (second tier options would be sufficient), not at DT (ditto), and not at kicker or punter.

    Why not make two or three draft day steals, beginning with LenDale or DeAngelo at 23, 24, 25, or 26?

    Hello!?!?!?!?!? People, this makes perfect sense. If you disagree in the slightest, then I think you crave the "sexiness" of the 15th pick a little too much.

    Dag nabbit! My CP's are all worn out...
    I am all up in the sexiness that is the 15th pick

    I totally agree though with all of this, and even if Javon doesn't come here in a freak accident/GB is stupid and as long as we have Lelie, I still would be happy with a 2nd round WR.

    Augggghhh, I need a mop for the drool.

    until then, more champagne pick 15?

    *why yes cinny, thanks!*

    Leave a comment:


  • pipes
    replied
    Originally posted by ydave77
    Ideally think I would rather trade up to 11, inf front of the Browns and grab Ngata or Bunkley. If that option isnt available. I agree trade down, bc there is nothing we really need @15, other than WR. Which I dont want. So may as well move back, pick up Marony or Deangelo or Lawson at #25.

    I actually believe that if the Broncos were to add either of these guys, it would help the defense even more than if they added Mario or Huff.

    My reasoning: It would free up Warren a little more, plus having two DT's that o-lines would have to respect, it would free up our DE's. If our DL is doing their job then the secondary doesn't have to cover as long and the LB's can worry more about their assignments rather that always being relied on to apply pressure on the QB.

    Leave a comment:

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