FYI - We didn't draft Elway

[jpark31]

I am getting tired of the posts that say that Cutler is the best draft pick we've had since drafting Elway....

I really like Cutler and was hoping we would draft him...

BUT

The Denver Broncos DID NOT draft John Elway...The Colts did...

It took about 2 weeks before they traded him to the Broncos because he said he would rather play baseball than play for the Colts and refused to sign...

We traded Chris Hinton, Mark Hermann, and a #1 Draft Choice for Elway....

Yes, it was the trade of the century and it made the Broncos the team they are now...

So everybody, please get you facts correct and please stop saying that we drafted Elway....

FYI: I really do hope that Cutler pans out and is great but the Broncis have NEVER drafted a great QB EVER...the only QB's to get them to the SB were Morton and Elway...all of our good QB's were either traded or free agents...name one that wasn't!

BTW: We drafted Kubiak that year

[topscribe]

I am getting tired of the posts that say that Cutler is the best draft pick we've had since drafting Elway....

I really like Cutler and was hoping we would draft him...

BUT

The Denver Broncos DID NOT draft John Elway...The Colts did...

It took about 2 weeks before they traded him to the Broncos because he said he would rather play baseball than play for the Colts and refused to sign...

We traded Chris Hinton, Mark Hermann, and a #1 Draft Choice for Elway....

Yes, it was the trade of the century and it made the Broncos the team they are now...

So everybody, please get you facts correct and please stop saying that we drafted Elway....

FYI: I really do hope that Cutler pans out and is great but the Broncis have NEVER drafted a great QB EVER...the only QB's to get them to the SB were Morton and Elway...all of our good QB's were either traded or free agents...name one that wasn't!

BTW: We drafted Kubiak that year

Saaaay, you're good.

So, what else did we give for Elway?

And why did the Indianapolis Colts trade him to us?
I am testing you to see if you spotted my allusion to "Indianapolis" Colts. HAHAHA!!

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[MileHighStud]

Saaaay, you're good.

So, what else did we give for Elway?

And why did the Indianapolis Colts trade him to us?
I am testing you to see if you spotted my allusion to "Indianapolis" Colts. HAHAHA!!

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I have nothing but love for Elway, but I believe they traded him to us because he kept nagging about how he did not want to play for them. I think that was the straw that broke the camels back. If thats the right answer do I get CPs for it.

[jpark31]

Saaaay, you're good.

So, what else did we give for Elway?

And why did the Indianapolis Colts trade him to us?
I am testing you to see if you spotted my allusion to "Indianapolis" Colts. HAHAHA!!

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The Colts traded him because he said that he would rather play baseball than play for them...I don't think they wanted to see what would happen with his baseball career...If he was great they wouldn't have anything to trade because he would have made a great living as a baseball player...

The #1 draft pick that the colts got the next year was Solt....

Of course Hinton and Solt were both good offensive linemend but the Broncos would still be a 2nd rate team with Deberg and Herrmann as QB's...

[lvbronx]

Saaaay, you're good.

So, what else did we give for Elway?

And why did the Indianapolis Colts trade him to us?
I am testing you to see if you spotted my allusion to "Indianapolis" Colts. HAHAHA!!

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To be honest, the Colts were offered way more by other teams than we gave up for Elway.

But Irsay and Edgar Kaiser (our owner at the time) were close friends.

And, I believe Chris Hinton was the key, that he's the player that then Colts coach Frank Kush really wanted.

But I think it was really the Kaiser/Irsay relationship that pulled off the deal...Rumors were strong that both the Chargers and 49ers were offering more...With the 49ers even offering Montana plus a couple of #1s.

And the reason Elway didn't want to play for the Colts was really he didn't want to play for Kush, who had a "rivalry" with Elway's dad Jack when both were college coaches.

Kush was a really "tough guy" coach and Jack Elway despised him...John had too much class to say he didn't want' to play for Kush, so he said he wanted to play for a West coast team...Last time I checked, Denver isn't on the West coast.

[topscribe]

The Colts traded him because he said that he would rather play baseball than play for them...I don't think they wanted to see what would happen with his baseball career...If he was great they wouldn't have anything to trade because he would have made a great living as a baseball player...

The #1 draft pick that the colts got the next year was Solt....

Of course Hinton and Solt were both good offensive linemend but the Broncos would still be a 2nd rate team with Deberg and Herrmann as QB's...

I guess you didn't notice that I said "Indianapolis Colts."

Anyway, in addition to the players in question and the draft choice, the Broncos had to give the Colts $1 million.

The Colts had the first selection in the draft in 1983, and Elway was the consensus choice to go at that spot. Elway told the Colts in advance that he would not play for them. The primary reason for this was Frank Kush, who was embroiled in a bitter feud with John's dad, Jack Elway. John would therefore not play for Kush. He also did not like the Colts owner Irsay, but that was secondary. A third reason was the location of the Colts . . . in Baltimore. John wanted to play for a western team, closer to home. But, as I said, the primary reason was Kush. Therefore, John meant what he said about playing baseball instead, and contrary to some opinions I have heard these days, he would have been good at that, too.

That aside, Jay Cutler may be the best QB prospect to come out of the draft since John Elway, IMO.

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[topscribe]

To be honest, the Colts were offered way more by other teams than we gave up for Elway.

But Irsay and Edgar Kaiser (our owner at the time) were close friends.

And, I believe Chris Hinton was the key, that he's the player that then Colts coach Frank Kush really wanted.

But I think it was really the Kaiser/Irsay relationship that pulled off the deal...Rumors were strong that both the Chargers and 49ers were offering more...With the 49ers even offering Montana plus a couple of #1s.

And the reason Elway didn't want to play for the Colts was really he didn't want to play for Kush, who had a "rivalry" with Elway's dad Jack when both were college coaches.

Kush was a really "tough guy" coach and Jack Elway despised him...John had too much class to say he didn't want' to play for Kush, so he said he wanted to play for a West coast team...Last time I checked, Denver isn't on the West coast.

Well, actually, it was Dallas who almost got John, but we snatched him out of their hands with a better offer.

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[lvbronx]

Well, actually, it was Dallas who almost got John, but we snatched him out of their hands with a better offer.

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Dallas may have been one of the teams interested, but to say that the 49ers and Chargers (and even the Raiders) also didn't make strong offers would be incorrect.

As far as a "better" offer, the Chargers and SF both gave better offers. As a matter of fact, I just heard Elway a few days ago when he was interviewed during this time, saying "I know for a fact the Colts have been offered three first round draft choices".

I'll stick to my guns. Kush wanted Hinton and Irsay and Kaiser were long-time friends.

After all, the deal we put together for Elway wasn't that strong.

[topscribe]

Dallas may have been one of the teams interested, but to say that the 49ers and Chargers (and even the Raiders) also didn't make strong offers would be incorrect.

As far as a "better" offer, the Chargers and SF both gave better offers. As a matter of fact, I just heard Elway a few days ago when he was interviewed during this time, saying "I know for a fact the Colts have been offered three first round draft choices".

I'll stick to my guns. Kush wanted Hinton and Irsay and Kaiser were long-time friends.

After all, the deal we put together for Elway wasn't that strong.

I don't believe I contradicted you with my post, LV. (You seem to draw that conclusion often when I respond to you.) It happened as you said. But it also happened as I said: Dallas very nearly had a deal.

But I don't know where you get the idea we didn't have a "strong" deal. Hinton was our #1 draft choice, and we gave the 1984 #1, too. That amounted to two number ones. Then we gave them our #4 in the form of Mark Hermann, and we had no idea at the time he would bust. For good measure, Kaiser threw in one million dollars. No, we paid dearly for Elway (but of course, it was worth it, and then some). Irsay might have been Kaiser's friend, but he wasn't his daddy.

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[lvbronx]

I don't believe I contradicted you with my post, LV. (You seem to draw that conclusion often when I respond to you.) It happened as you said. But it also happened as I said: Dallas very nearly had a deal.

But I don't know where you get the idea we didn't have a "strong" deal. Hinton was our #1 draft choice, and we gave the 1984 #1, too. That amounted to two number ones. Then we gave them our #4 in the form of Mark Hermann, and we had no idea at the time he would bust. For good measure, Kaiser threw in one million dollars. No, we paid dearly for Elway (but of course, it was worth it, and then some). Irsay might have been Kaiser's friend, but he wasn't his daddy.

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I disagree. Every expert I heard/read at the time said it was a steal. And I agree(d).

Let's not forget, Elway was regarded, and still is regarded, as the HIGHEST RATED COLLEGE PROSPECT TO EVER ENTER THE DRAFT. Elway was considered the surest thing to ever enter the draft. He was far from being a typical #1 over-all.

Now please tell us what Dallas offered, without this info, how can well tell if what we offered was "better" than Dallas'?

And three number one's is better than two number one and Mark Hermann, who was a fourth rounder.

Not to mention two number ones AND Joe Montana (Bill Walsh's offer) is also better than our's, IMO. Basically the same number of #1s, plus a probowl QB, which Hermann surely wasn't.

Again, every expert I heard at the time called it a steal. And no offense, I agree with them over your opinion.

And I"ll repeat (again), I'll stick to my guns: It was Kush wanting Hinton and Irsay's friendship with Kaiser that made the deal...Nothing you can say will change my mind on this, despite how hard you try.

[topscribe]

I disagree. Every expert I heard/read at the time said it was a steal. And I agree(d).

Let's not forget, Elway was regarded, and still is regarded, as the HIGHEST RATED COLLEGE PROSPECT TO EVER ENTER THE DRAFT. Elway was considered the surest thing to ever enter the draft. He was far from being a typical #1 over-all.

Now please tell us what Dallas offered, without this info, how can well tell if what we offered was "better" than Dallas'?

And three number one's is better than two number one and Mark Hermann, who was a fourth rounder.

Not to mention two number ones AND Joe Montana (Bill Walsh's offer) is also better than our's, IMO. Basically the same number of #1s, plus a probowl QB, which Hermann surely wasn't.

Again, every expert I heard at the time called it a steal. And no offense, I agree with them over your opinion.

And I"ll repeat (again), I'll stick to my guns: It was Kush wanting Hinton and Irsay's friendship with Kaiser that made the deal...Nothing you can say will change my mind on this, despite how hard you try.

Boy, what you consider important. Is this it for you?

Anyway, all I have heard was THREE number ones . . . I haven't heard WHO.

Perhaps this should be moved to the Rumor Mill.

But so what? Who the hell cares? If this is all you have in life, who am I to rain on your parade?

So I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll acquiesce. You are absolutely right. Everything you said was right on the money. In fact, you have always been right, and I have always been wrong.

There. Feel better now? Will you get some sleep tonight?

I know I feel better. I now have this behind me. I can get on to some more important things than . . . this.



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[sportsgeist]

I am getting tired of the posts that say that Cutler is the best draft pick we've had since drafting Elway....

I really like Cutler and was hoping we would draft him...

BUT

The Denver Broncos DID NOT draft John Elway...The Colts did...

It took about 2 weeks before they traded him to the Broncos because he said he would rather play baseball than play for the Colts and refused to sign...

We traded Chris Hinton, Mark Hermann, and a #1 Draft Choice for Elway....

Yes, it was the trade of the century and it made the Broncos the team they are now...

So everybody, please get you facts correct and please stop saying that we drafted Elway....

FYI: I really do hope that Cutler pans out and is great but the Broncis have NEVER drafted a great QB EVER...the only QB's to get them to the SB were Morton and Elway...all of our good QB's were either traded or free agents...name one that wasn't!

BTW: We drafted Kubiak that year

Almost every Bronco and Colts fan (except for some younger ones) know Elway wasn't drafted by the Broncos. So you must be hearing that from somewhere else. Even if we traded for him then that would be considered as being drafted by way of a trade through the Colts. They'll make the same mistake with Rivers and Manning.

[JoRo]

I am getting tired of the posts that say that Cutler is the best draft pick we've had since drafting Elway....

I really like Cutler and was hoping we would draft him...

BUT

The Denver Broncos DID NOT draft John Elway...The Colts did...

It took about 2 weeks before they traded him to the Broncos because he said he would rather play baseball than play for the Colts and refused to sign...

We traded Chris Hinton, Mark Hermann, and a #1 Draft Choice for Elway....

Yes, it was the trade of the century and it made the Broncos the team they are now...

So everybody, please get you facts correct and please stop saying that we drafted Elway....

FYI: I really do hope that Cutler pans out and is great but the Broncis have NEVER drafted a great QB EVER...the only QB's to get them to the SB were Morton and Elway...all of our good QB's were either traded or free agents...name one that wasn't!

BTW: We drafted Kubiak that year

In that case- The giants didnt draft Eli Manning either... he went no.1 overall though So Rivers wasnt actually drafted by the Chargers

[lvbronx]

Boy, what you consider important. Is this it for you?

Anyway, all I have heard was THREE number ones . . . I haven't heard WHO.

Perhaps this should be moved to the Rumor Mill.

But so what? Who the hell cares? If this is all you have in life, who am I to rain on your parade?

So I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll acquiesce. You are absolutely right. Everything you said was right on the money. In fact, you have always been right, and I have always been wrong.

There. Feel better now? Will you get some sleep tonight?

I know I feel better. I now have this behind me. I can get on to some more important things than . . . this.



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Quit being a hypocrite (and a cry baby). If you don't have any facts to offer, be quite.

But your feeble attempt at sarcasm...Well, you're not even good at it.

The better question is, how do YOU feel after venting your frustration?

And another question, what have you possibly presented in this conversation that is worthy of changing my mind, considering my opinion is based on my OWN recollections? I'll answer: NOTHING.

Next time, bring some facts instead of sophomoric sarcasm.

Now I feel better, since you are so interested in my "feelings" (instead of facts)...

[topscribe]

Quit being a hypocrite (and a cry baby). If you don't have any facts to offer, be quite.

But your feeble attempt at sarcasm...Well, you're not even good at it.

The better question is, how do YOU feel after venting your frustration?

And another question, what have you possibly presented in this conversation that is worthy of changing my mind, considering my opinion is based on my OWN recollections? I'll answer: NOTHING.

Next time, bring some facts instead of sophomoric sarcasm.

Now I feel better, since you are so interested in my "feelings" (instead of facts)...

LV, I've tried to be friends with you, but you so often seem to want to just pick a fight. I don't know why. I have seen you do this with others, too. But I do know you just violated the COC with your name-calling. You want to be careful; a lot of bannings have taken place lately.

You talk about YOUR OWN recollections. Take a look at my sig. Did you SEE that game? How old were you then? Did you watch the NFC championship game, long before that, between when Green Bay and Dallas, when Bart Starr went over Jerry Kramer and Forrest Gregg on a QB sneak, for the winning TD? You are not the only one on this board who has YOUR OWN recollections. And you have presented no FACTS yourself in the form of any documentation. So am I the hypocrite here?

It doesn't matter, anyway. I never denied what you said about it. I never said, "No, it was Dallas who nearly had a deal, not the 49ers and Chargers." If you will look back, one of my qualifying statements was, "It happened as you said. But it also happened as I said: Dallas very nearly had a deal." In other words, I tried to ADD to what you said, not argue with you.

I don't know whether you have a problem with self-esteem or what, but you do need to get over yourself. As I said, I have observed your taking up arguments where arguments did not exist, with more than one poster. Now, I'm going to close out this unproductive conversation and, as I mentioned before, go on to more worthwhile endeavors. But think about this, LV, and try to avoid creating arguments where they don't exist, and to recognize it when someone is trying to add to your point, not to contradict you.

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