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  • AMG
    replied
    Originally posted by In-com-plete
    But D-line is a position that we need and have ignored for years. How much did we need a future franchise QB? Like I said earlier, we should have drafted for need.

    Mel Kiper on Ngata:
    Perfect body for a nose tackle and has the athleticism to play either tackle in the 4-3. Needs better technique but is a rare talent. Surprisingly active in pursuit. Never gives up on plays. Impressive agility and athleticism.

    Sporting News:
    Terrific upside. Brute strength and can overpower at times. When fresh, dominates the point of attack. Technique needs work and tires easily.

    In all the other things I've read about him not once did I hear anything about a poor work ethic. I may be wrong, but I thought I read the opposite.
    Another great post!

    Both sides have been well represented in this thread. A lot of facts have been thrown around and it seems the entire Broncos Nation is split right down the middle on what we think about the pick.

    I'm not really sure what my opinion is because I can see both sides of the argument.


    1. I think Cutler has the talent to be a solid QB in the years to come and it is an exciting pick....for the future.

    2. I believe we didn't make the "best" move for our football team right now with this pick. It's not a "bad" move, it's just not the "best" move for right now.


    The bottom line is we traded up to fill a position that, aside from needing some depth, wasn't really a top need when you conisder where our football club was last year. If Jake goes down then our season could be in a lot of trouble next year anyways.

    Grabbing Javon Walker was huge. This is the immediate help that everyone was talking about that we need to get to the superbowl next year since we were so close last year. However, I think we had a few more positions that could've also used some immediate help (DE, DT, Safety) and aside from Dumervil (who I can honestly say I don't know anything about except that he is small) we didn't get it. Why didn't we? Because first of all we traded picks that could've been used for this to move up in the draft and secondly we drafted a QB with that pick.

    Why did we draft Cutler?

    I don't like the argument: "Well we are never going to be in a position to draft another top QB again." How the heck does anyone know that?? I sure hope we aren't but how can anyone be so sure? I seem to remember the 49ers being an elite franchise in this league not so long ago. Now it looks like they're 10 years away from even making the playoffs.

    I also don't like the argument "You can't pass up on talent like that". Why did the Titans pick Young over him? Why did the Jets pass up on him? Why did Oakland pass up on him?....ETC. You can't say "because they had other needs". So did we.

    So why did we draft Cutler? IMO, we are ready to win now. Champ is in his prime, Al is in his prime, Rod is almost gone (his leadership will be greatly missed when he hangs em up), Our OL is getting older (especially Nalen), Lynch is still a killer but he is getting older.......the list goes on and on. We are built to win now.....not when Cutler will be ready.

    I do like him and how can you not be excited about his potential?.....but I just don't understand how this was the right move for us to make at this time. I still like it though, just not as much as I would've if we did what I wanted.

    Leave a comment:


  • silkamilkamonic
    replied
    Originally posted by In-com-plete
    But D-line is a position that we need and have ignored for years. How much did we need a future franchise QB? Like I said earlier, we should have drafted for need.

    Mel Kiper on Ngata:
    Perfect body for a nose tackle and has the athleticism to play either tackle in the 4-3. Needs better technique but is a rare talent. Surprisingly active in pursuit. Never gives up on plays. Impressive agility and athleticism.

    Sporting News:
    Terrific upside. Brute strength and can overpower at times. When fresh, dominates the point of attack. Technique needs work and tires easily.

    In all the other things I've read about him not once did I hear anything about a poor work ethic. I may be wrong, but I thought I read the opposite.

    I can respect that.

    I honestly believe that Shanahan really felt Cutler will be Denver's future at QB. I don't think it was a situation where Shanahan just wanted to get a Qb to groom. I feel like if it was almost any other QB other then Cutler, DEnver would've went with a different pick. Shanahan obviously fell in love with Cutler, and alot of the 'experts' fell Cutler will be the best QB in the draft.

    I didn't embrace the pick at all at first, because I wanted a pass rusher. I think Ngata could be great if he sets his mind to it, but I don't see him solving Denver's lack of a pass rush. He might take oline of the LB's hands, but so does Denver's current oline.

    Wimbley would have been intriguing, or even Bunkley for a pass rush, but I think SHanahan made a decision that he could get his future QB that he coveted with Cutler.

    I know we still need a dominant pass rusher, as we have for years, but I love the idea that Denver is drafting for 2-3 years down the road.

    That same draft philosophy is why Pittsburgh, and New England have won SuperBowls. New England rarely drafts need, they draft for 2-3 years down the road.

    I can respect that people are upset that we didn't fill our pass rushing need, but I do love the approach Denver has taken with drafting for the future in the last 2 years.

    Leave a comment:


  • In-com-plete
    replied
    Originally posted by silkamilkamonic
    I wanted a defensive linemen too, but when you think about Denver picking at #15, there was a lot better talent that was availble then the Dline.

    I don't think Ngata will do much in the NFL unless he drastically changes his work ethic. He dominated college because of his size, but he has a very poor work ethic and even admittingly says he needs to play harder in games on a more consistent level.

    First round Qb's in the last 10 years, some have panned out to be franchise QB's, some are still trying to find their way, and some have flat out busted. Out of the 3 QB's in this years draft, you can almost bet that 1 will pan out, 1 won't, and one will take a while longer, on an average.

    That same trend in QB's can be said about Dline also. Dline is another inconsistent position to pick in the first round also.
    But D-line is a position that we need and have ignored for years. How much did we need a future franchise QB? Like I said earlier, we should have drafted for need.

    Mel Kiper on Ngata:
    Perfect body for a nose tackle and has the athleticism to play either tackle in the 4-3. Needs better technique but is a rare talent. Surprisingly active in pursuit. Never gives up on plays. Impressive agility and athleticism.

    Sporting News:
    Terrific upside. Brute strength and can overpower at times. When fresh, dominates the point of attack. Technique needs work and tires easily.

    In all the other things I've read about him not once did I hear anything about a poor work ethic. I may be wrong, but I thought I read the opposite.

    Leave a comment:


  • silkamilkamonic
    replied
    Originally posted by In-com-plete

    Can you guess who I wanted in the first round? Can you guess what position(s) Shanahan has ignored year in and year out?

    If you said DT or DE you win. I don't think we should have taken a DE with #11, but Ngata or Bunkley was right there. Either one, preferably Ngata, would have been good. Ngata helps us win right now and that's exactly who I feel we should have drafted.

    I will say I have nothing against Cutler, it just seems every year some QB comes out of nowhere and gets drafted high. Boller, Losman, and Alex Smith come to mind. I hope Cutler isn't like those three.

    I wanted a defensive linemen too, but when you think about Denver picking at #15, there was a lot better talent that was availble then the Dline.

    I don't think Ngata will do much in the NFL unless he drastically changes his work ethic. He dominated college because of his size, but he has a very poor work ethic and even admittingly says he needs to play harder in games on a more consistent level.

    First round Qb's in the last 10 years, some have panned out to be franchise QB's, some are still trying to find their way, and some have flat out busted. Out of the 3 QB's in this years draft, you can almost bet that 1 will pan out, 1 won't, and one will take a while longer, on an average.

    That same trend in QB's can be said about Dline also. Dline is another inconsistent position to pick in the first round also.

    Leave a comment:


  • MN-Broncofreak
    replied
    Originally posted by broncofan27
    It's getting old hearing some of you state over and over again about how you are upset about Cutler. I am sorry you just don't pass up that kind of talent. When will Denver be back there ever again to get a guy like that for the future. Get over it. Jay is a bronco and will be for years to come. I know all of you people that are upset will forget all the negativity you spit out when we have a great 2006 season and are excellent for years to come because we will have a solid leader behind center. So quit the whining nothing can be done about it and you know you will be praising it later.
    Well said. I agree. Denver will not be in the position to draft that high again. The only reason that they were this year was because of strategic trading over the past couple of years and especially this offseason. Our team is too good to draft in the first half of the round. With that kind of talent, pull the trigger. It is a great situation for this kid to develop, our team to continue to succeed with our existing quarterback, and for us to make our game more well-rounded. CP to that point.

    Leave a comment:


  • In-com-plete
    replied
    When you're on the board you have two options. Draft for need or draft the best available player. ****ty teams who need multiple players should draft the best available player. Teams that feel they are close to where they need to be should draft for need.

    IMO, reaching the AFCCG should automatically put us in the draft for need catagory. And we didn't do that. We leaned toward the best available player, and I don't even know if we took that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick
    replied
    Originally posted by GridironChamp
    ok, some people are actually whining about the pick, but most of the people i see are just mad at the pick....Actually not reallly mad at the pick but mad at the trading up part to get Cutler.

    Cutler really hasnt proven a whole lot on the college lvl but he played for a bad team. If Cutler fell to 15 i think there would be alot less complainers than there is right now.

    I personaally see it this way, Cutler might be good but i dont think he will be any better than Plummer, it was a BAD pick to trade up for, Bunkley could have been draafted at the 15 spot and you could have kept your otherr pick. Many other D-linmen were also available by the 15th pick, so i didnt see the logic of trading up, especially when you see talen like Croyle and that qB from Oregon going in the third round at QB.
    Well Croyle and Clemmons have nothing on Cutler. Also Bunkley and Ngata are off the board by 15. Jets really liked Cutler at 4. The logic for trading up is got a top 5 disputably the best QB in the draft and we might never have an oppurtunity to do that again.

    It is easier to get a DT or DE in free agency then gambling in the draft for some one that won't be considered a franchise player. Cutler was gone at that pick if it was us or some one else.

    Cutler has proven a lot on the college level... that means you havn't seen him on the college level.

    We have couple of the highest DT and DE on our team already in Warren and Brown...

    the best comparison is within a 5 pick period in earlly 1st round is

    2003- carson palmer or Dewayne Robertson DT / Johnathan Sullivan DT

    2004 - Ben rothesburger or tommie harris DT / Will Smith DE

    OR

    2006 - Cutler or Ngata DT / Bunkley DT

    Leave a comment:


  • GridironChamp
    replied
    ok, some people are actually whining about the pick, but most of the people i see are just mad at the pick....Actually not reallly mad at the pick but mad at the trading up part to get Cutler.

    Cutler really hasnt proven a whole lot on the college lvl but he played for a bad team. If Cutler fell to 15 i think there would be alot less complainers than there is right now.

    I personaally see it this way, Cutler might be good but i dont think he will be any better than Plummer, it was a BAD pick to trade up for, Bunkley could have been draafted at the 15 spot and you could have kept your otherr pick. Many other D-linmen were also available by the 15th pick, so i didnt see the logic of trading up, especially when you see talen like Croyle and that qB from Oregon going in the third round at QB.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick
    replied
    Originally posted by broncosfan247
    funny thing is if you would have asked them right after Denver selected him, most of them would have told you we should have drafted WR Chad Jackson. Funny, no one on these boards mentions that now, especially since we could have damn near gotten him with our 2nd round pick. But at the time we were suppose to waste a 15th overall pick on the guy. This is why we are the fans, and the coaches get paid to do this.
    I wanted whitner or jason allen or move back and get lawson

    But happier w/ Cutler (also mentioned how WR's were going to fall and didn't deserve a 1st rd grade)

    Leave a comment:


  • broncosfan247
    replied
    Originally posted by silkamilkamonic
    The guys that are "whining" about the picks, where would they have rather gone?

    Instead of crying about the picks, try arguing your difference on whay Denver should have gone someplace else.
    funny thing is if you would have asked them right after Denver selected him, most of them would have told you we should have drafted WR Chad Jackson. Funny, no one on these boards mentions that now, especially since we could have damn near gotten him with our 2nd round pick. But at the time we were suppose to waste a 15th overall pick on the guy. This is why we are the fans, and the coaches get paid to do this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Javalon
    replied
    Originally posted by myoung
    That is not correct. Look at Heath Miller last year. He was a significant factor for the Steelers last year. They drafted him because they needed a TE and he would contribute quickly. What about Big Ben the year before. Hmm and what about the Seahawks. They took their middle lb in the second round. It was a huge need for them. Don't you think he contributed to the team. How about us we drafted CBs because it was an area of need. Did we use them? Yes.... Did we depend on them? Yes.... It is definately not just the bad teams that have rookies produce. In fact the better teams usually do a better job of picking and many of the players product quicker. The rookies on top teams are usually expected to contribute and fill a hole not be the superstar that fixes the franchise. This often times helps them be productive quicker. If you need more examples to help prove the point I would be happy to provide. But just last years draft (as I have already shown you) is pretty telling.

    I do not expect the rookie to be a superstar. But you are crazy if you think that teams don't draft for needs. Most teams expect a very high pick to come in and improve that position. Now does that not work out in some cases of course. But the draft is a very big part of teams addressing offseason needs. It is the free agency period plus the draft that is used to address needs.
    Thank you. And don't forget our own Darrent Williams and Dominique Foxworth just last year. Or D.J. Williams the year before.

    You can't count on an immediate improvement of your team from a rookie. But it is surely possible. And the higher the pick, the more likely it should be.

    Leave a comment:


  • JakeGirl
    replied
    I agree - John Lynch needs a replacement sooner than Jake....

    We really need a fast safety, ala Polumalo of the Steelers!

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick
    replied
    Originally posted by SM19
    Just how many "franchise DTs" are there in the NFL? Aside from Marcus Stroud, there's Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork maybe? DTs with the combination of size and athleticism to make a real impact in the NFL are rare, and you have to take them where you can get them.
    Agree you prove my point

    Leave a comment:


  • myoung
    replied
    Originally posted by jhns
    If you expect any rookie ever to be the answer to your problems and take you over the edge to the superbowl you are putting your hopes in a horrible place. You cannot address a problem with the draft and think it is then fixed no matter who you get. A lot of players do not do good in the pros and even more of them are worthless in their first season. If you expected us to fill in all the holes with the draft then you are not a football knowledgable fan. The draft is for the future to assure the team is good in the long run and competes for many years. It is not to fill immediate needs. Only very bad teams try to fill in needs and they usually don't even expect to win using those rookies for a few years.

    That is not correct. Look at Heath Miller last year. He was a significant factor for the Steelers last year. They drafted him because they needed a TE and he would contribute quickly. What about Big Ben the year before. Hmm and what about the Seahawks. They took their middle lb in the second round. It was a huge need for them. Don't you think he contributed to the team. How about us we drafted CBs because it was an area of need. Did we use them? Yes.... Did we depend on them? Yes.... It is definately not just the bad teams that have rookies produce. In fact the better teams usually do a better job of picking and many of the players product quicker. The rookies on top teams are usually expected to contribute and fill a hole not be the superstar that fixes the franchise. This often times helps them be productive quicker. If you need more examples to help prove the point I would be happy to provide. But just last years draft (as I have already shown you) is pretty telling.

    I do not expect the rookie to be a superstar. But you are crazy if you think that teams don't draft for needs. Most teams expect a very high pick to come in and improve that position. Now does that not work out in some cases of course. But the draft is a very big part of teams addressing offseason needs. It is the free agency period plus the draft that is used to address needs.


    The reality is that coaches and GMs in this league are on a very short leash and most of them don't have years to groom talent. They can't afford to be bad for three or four years. If they are they would be building a team for the next coach. That is not the mindset of the NFL. That is why teams that are loaded with talent and the coaches have job security (Eagles, Pats, etc...) Coaches and GMs just can't afford to draft guys and wait for years upon years to get production.

    I do agree that not all draft picks will turn out. I never expect much from a second day pick. In fact I am surprised when one of them contributes. I am happy if a 2nd and 3rd rounder starts for us at some time. But if we don't get production out of first round picks we put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage because the top teams do get production.

    You have to believe that a top DT or DE in this draft would have improved that position.... I do not expect them to be the best in the league or even be the difference by themselves. But if you think teams don't expect improvement at some positions then you are mistaken. When you draft an area of need with a first round pick you have to expect them to come in and start. You also would expect them to be an upgrade to what you had (if it was truly a position of need). The exception to this is probably QB where a first round QB normally provides a drop off the first year they play.

    Again I want to reiterate that I love the Cutler pick but your statements, while they got you a CP, are way off. Teams can't afford anymore to do what you are talking about.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick
    replied
    Originally posted by jhns
    If you expect any rookie ever to be the answer to your problems and take you over the edge to the superbowl you are putting your hopes in a horrible place. You cannot address a problem with the draft and think it is then fixed no matter who you get. A lot of players do not do good in the pros and even more of them are worthless in their first season. If you expected us to fill in all the holes with the draft then you are not a football knowledgable fan. The draft is for the future to assure the team is good in the long run and competes for many years. It is not to fill immediate needs. Only very bad teams try to fill in needs and they usually don't even expect to win using those rookies for a few years.
    well put... CP for you never mind i can't I need to spread the love around before I give on to you

    Leave a comment:

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