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  • #61
    The only way Dumervil will be able to gain the weight needed to play DT is if he becomes best friends with Barry Bonds.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by bcbronc
      im not so sure 20lbs is out of the question. he has thick limbs and joints. he looks like he can fill out his shoulders and chest, as well as quads and glutes. 20 lbs for a guy who's 20-21 or whatever he is, should be do-able with the right diet and weight lifting program. it wont happen for this season, but give him a couple years with a professional nutrionalist and trainer, and he should be able to do it no problem.

      do you realize how thin 10% body fat is? thats probably around where champ bailey is, i would guess (and i wouldnt be surprised if he's a couple points above that). 20-25% is about right for your average joe that keeps himself in reasonable shape. it might be a little high for dumervil as a pro, but its definately not obese or even fat. if the extra weight doesnt slow him down, then its an advantage. but i would expect that number to end up around 15% in a couple of years. but i wouldnt want a DE to be much less than that. they take too much pounding week in and week out to be in single digits for body fat %.

      but your saying dumervil is 'strictly a DE' is ridiculous considering shanny has already been quoted as saying he could be successfull outsider OR inside. no offense, but shanny knows a heck of a lot more than you do.

      and nobody is talking about him being an every down tackle. the talk is to play him as a pass-rushing DT where his low center of gravity, quickness, and pass rush moves might allow him to shoot gaps and run stunts and get to the qb. he doesnt have to bulk up to 300 lbs to do that.
      Yeah, as I said, I'm sure he can gain the weight but it'll be a very prolonged process. As of now, there's absolutely zero room for him to fill out in his abdomen, waist, and hips. And that's the area where weight gain is most possible. I won't rule out DT in a few years. But this year, it's completely ridiculous. He'd get torn to pieces at DT.

      As far as Dumervil's body fat goes, it's not just burning off the fat and doing nothing. The thing is, he needs to burn off the body fat and replace it with muscle. Not only will this allow him to gain weight, it will significantly lower his body fat percentage and make him even stronger, quite a bit quicker, and increase his endurance. That, and he'll weigh more due to the density of muscle. I'll admit I was typing too fast when I said "needs to cut that number in half", but I'll still maintain cutting 5% off is a minimum. By the way, many NFL players are in the 5-7% range in body fat. Champ fits into this category. The Vikings Troy Williamson is absolutely ripped and has 4% body fat. I'm willing to bet Dwight Freeney (who Dumervil was once compared to) is under 10%. Just because he has low body fat, doesn't make him susceptible to a pounding. Just look at the guy. I'd imagine that if Dumervil is willing to make this commitment, he can look the same way.

      I know what a 3-technique tackle does. Believe me, I do, and probably moreso than you. My internship here at Va Tech has taught me a lot. Watch the film on Dumervil and you'll see he requires space and one-on-one situations to be successful. He is subpar at stunts (in which he must slip between the tackle and guard), and a stunt is essentially the DE equivalent to what a 3-technique must do every down. Dumervil does not work well in cramped spaces, he does not hold up well against double teams, and his run defense leaves a lot to be desired. Hardly a fit to be playing that position. I have an inkling that Dumervil may be listed at DT, only because it will be the only way for him to make the team. DE is currently cramped in the opinions of the front office.

      By the way, we don't use 3-techniques in our scheme anyway. We haven't since the days of Ray Rhodes as defensive coordinator. The closest thing we even have to a 3-technique is Demetrin Veal. So basically, we'd be forced to use Dumervil as a nose tackle-hybrid sort. And that's even worse then putting him at an authentic 3-technique role.
      A proponent of Denver drafting Cutler since 10/05.

      So naturally, my Adopt-A-Bronco is Jay Cutler!

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by vicious2500
        Actually he's pretty good against the run and really strong. If they play him at UT on passing downs then he could provide a good rush from the inside and allow more speed rushers on the edge.
        Really? wow, i guess all the scouting reports on him were wrong and his lack of size never got him Sealed up into the inside on outside runs 50% of the time, But hey the way some of these guys are pumping him up around here maybe he should have been picked number 1 instead of Mario Williams, looks like we got a steal to get him in the 4th! Somebody be sure to call the Pope when Elvis walks on water.
        "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."sigpic

        Comment


        • #64
          [QUOTE=PsychoChicken]
          Yeah, as I said, I'm sure he can gain the weight but it'll be a very prolonged process. As of now, there's absolutely zero room for him to fill out in his abdomen, waist, and hips. And that's the area where weight gain is most possible. I won't rule out DT in a few years. But this year, it's completely ridiculous. He'd get torn to pieces at DT.
          i agree he wont be able to put on more than a few pounds for this season.


          As far as Dumervil's body fat goes, it's not just burning off the fat and doing nothing. The thing is, he needs to burn off the body fat and replace it with muscle. Not only will this allow him to gain weight, it will significantly lower his body fat percentage and make him even stronger, quite a bit quicker, and increase his endurance. That, and he'll weigh more due to the density of muscle. I'll admit I was typing too fast when I said "needs to cut that number in half", but I'll still maintain cutting 5% off is a minimum. By the way, many NFL players are in the 5-7% range in body fat. Champ fits into this category. The Vikings Troy Williamson is absolutely ripped and has 4% body fat. I'm willing to bet Dwight Freeney (who Dumervil was once compared to) is under 10%. Just because he has low body fat, doesn't make him susceptible to a pounding. Just look at the guy. I'd imagine that if Dumervil is willing to make this commitment, he can look the same way.
          where are you getting these numbers from? because, to be blunt, it sounds like you are talking out your butt. maybe your not, but id like to know where you are getting your info from.

          first, why do you need to burn off the fat BEFORE adding muscle? that completely contradicts the whole principle. when you are trying to add muscle, or 'bulk up', you dont worry at all about fat. you increase your calorie intake through the roof while you are lifting heavy. the extra fat keeps your joints lubricated and protected, as well as gives you calories for working out and rejuvenating. most professional body-builders (mr olympia types) get fat during their off-season. they dont worry about body fat % when they are trying to put on weight, and then when it gets closer to competition time, they up the cardio and cut back the calories.

          the same principle would apply to dumervil, except he likely would keep the cardio going all year round. but he wouldnt be overly concerned about body fat % at any point. and he sure as heck wouldnt be worried about burning the fat while he is trying to bulk up. he would stay in decent cardio shape, and then up that aspect come mini-camp and camp.

          but your numbers of 5-7% for most nfl players, i find a little hard to believe. im just going to assume you mean skill positions to start with, but i still find that hard to believe. the general rule of thumb is about 4% body fat is 'essential' for health. you start getting below that, you start to run the risk of organ failure and other health concerns. maybe there are some guys like troy williamson that are very scrawny, but i would bet they are the exception.

          and body fat % can have a direct affect on injuries. body fat allows for insulation and lubrication of joints etc. considering the pounding involved in football, if your body fat is too low, you are not going to hold up to the contact over a season.

          now maybe you have a link that backs up your claims. if so, i'll gladly retract what i have said here. but your numbers seem awfully low, imo.

          I know what a 3-technique tackle does. Believe me, I do, and probably moreso than you. My internship here at Va Tech has taught me a lot. Watch the film on Dumervil and you'll see he requires space and one-on-one situations to be successful. He is subpar at stunts (in which he must slip between the tackle and guard), and a stunt is essentially the DE equivalent to what a 3-technique must do every down. Dumervil does not work well in cramped spaces, he does not hold up well against double teams, and his run defense leaves a lot to be desired. Hardly a fit to be playing that position. I have an inkling that Dumervil may be listed at DT, only because it will be the only way for him to make the team. DE is currently cramped in the opinions of the front office.

          By the way, we don't use 3-techniques in our scheme anyway. We haven't since the days of Ray Rhodes as defensive coordinator. The closest thing we even have to a 3-technique is Demetrin Veal. So basically, we'd be forced to use Dumervil as a nose tackle-hybrid sort. And that's even worse then putting him at an authentic 3-technique role.
          well maybe you do know more about 3 technique tackles than i do and maybe you dont. but i guarantee you dont know more than the broncos coaching staff. its shanny that first brought up the possibilities of using dumervil as a DT, not me. and again, i assume he means only in pass rush situations, so his run stuffing would be inconsequential for the most part. he's not going to be lined up as a DT on a 3rd and 3; he'd see the field in a 3rd and 12 kind of situation.

          i will concede you have seen him play more than i have. i have only watched a couple highlight flicks on him. so i am not saying i think he can make it, i am saying that shanny has said he could possibly. add to that the many scouting reports that say he has more pass rush moves than most coming out of college, his quickness, his motor, and his low center of gravity and he has the potential to be an effective SITUATIONAL pass rusher from the interior line. and when i talk of stunts, im talking about him using his speed to line up inside and then stunt around the end.

          but regardless of what ends up happening with dumervil, when the broncos coaching staff bring up the prospect of him playing some DT, its a little hard for me to accept your claim that there is no way that happens.
          "Philosophers have hitherto merely interpreted the world in various ways; the point, however, is to change it."--Karl Marx


          "And I tell you this, that you must give an account on judgement day of every idle word you speak. The words you say now reflect your fate then; either you will be justified by them or you will be condemned."--Jesus Christ




          Comment


          • #65
            NOt sure where this conversation is right now, but why would we want Dumervil to be a DT??

            He is a beast at DE. His weight is perfect for a pass rusher. All he knows how to do is put heat on the QB and force fumbles.

            I don't want to hear about his height. If someone knows how to play football, they know how to play football.

            Look what they said about Singletary and Sam Mills both being very successful playing MLB and both about 5'10".

            All this height talk has got to go. Either someone knows how to play ball or they don't.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by watchthemiddle
              NOt sure where this conversation is right now, but why would we want Dumervil to be a DT??

              He is a beast at DE. His weight is perfect for a pass rusher. All he knows how to do is put heat on the QB and force fumbles.

              I don't want to hear about his height. If someone knows how to play football, they know how to play football.

              Look what they said about Singletary and Sam Mills both being very successful playing MLB and both about 5'10".

              All this height talk has got to go. Either someone knows how to play ball or they don't.

              id guess the #1 reason is simply numbers. we dont really have a consistant pass rusher in the interior of our line, and our DT numbers are a little slim.

              on the other hand we currently have a plethora of interchangeable DEs to take a look at. if dumervil can play both inside and outside, it gives us a little more versatility with our roster.
              "Philosophers have hitherto merely interpreted the world in various ways; the point, however, is to change it."--Karl Marx


              "And I tell you this, that you must give an account on judgement day of every idle word you speak. The words you say now reflect your fate then; either you will be justified by them or you will be condemned."--Jesus Christ




              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by bcbronc
                id guess the #1 reason is simply numbers. we dont really have a consistant pass rusher in the interior of our line, and our DT numbers are a little slim.

                on the other hand we currently have a plethora of interchangeable DEs to take a look at. if dumervil can play both inside and outside, it gives us a little more versatility with our roster.

                Those interchangable DE's seem more suited to take on the roll then Elvis.
                Besides, we still have Myers and Veal who really played well when he got the opportunity last year.

                Comment


                • #68
                  I have been a bodybuilder for quite a few years now. BF% are very fluid. One guys 15% is anothers 20%. Plus the measurements are not very accurate. Walking around at 4% is very very Rare. Especially if you are not very muscular. Please remember that your body also stores a fair amount of fat internally around your organs.
                  http://216.58.161.132/forums/showthread.php?p=497087#post497087

                  Above I will list all my predictions for the 2005 season.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by rugbythug
                    I have been a bodybuilder for quite a few years now. BF% are very fluid. One guys 15% is anothers 20%. Plus the measurements are not very accurate. Walking around at 4% is very very Rare. Especially if you are not very muscular. Please remember that your body also stores a fair amount of fat internally around your organs.
                    Just remember that the 20% body fat report came from a Chiefs fan.

                    It takes more than a teaspoon of sugar for me to swallow anything a Chiefs fans says.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      The guy can play, that's all I know. From what I have seen his technique, his quickness, and his instincts are awesome.

                      Size issues... The strength trainers, and the Broncos staff will make sure he's at the weight they want him.

                      As for the inside/outside... I don't really see him being a 3 technique interior lineman, but maybe a DE stunting inside, which gives him a chance to create space and use his skills on the bigger interior lineman without getting swallowed by the initial lock up.

                      I say let's just see what he does in the preseason, and then we can better gauge how he will do at what position.
                      God Bless D. Williams and D. Nash. May their family and friends find peace in knowing that they were both truly loved by all. And they shall never be forgotten.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Broncosinindy
                        http://www.miamidolphins.com/lockerr...sp?docid=18148

                        FINS FACT
                        After playing inside linebacker throughout his collegiate career and his first three years in the NFL, when he played at 260 pounds, Keith was moved to the defensive line during training camp with Kansas City in 1994. Despite being released by the Chiefs prior to the ’94 regular season, Keith was persistent, and after playing with Barcelona of the NFL Europe League in the spring of 1995, he earned a spot on Kansas City’s roster later that year. Since that time, he has gone on to start 112 of the 150 regular season games in which he has played, and has been a part of three Super Bowl championship clubs.
                        first paragraph
                        That's all well and good, but he was drafted in '91 by denver, and played two years before going to KC....
                        ....which means he played 4 years before he was properly utilized????

                        Still don't see what this has to do with Dumervill.....
                        Last edited by rcsodak; 05-06-2006, 11:02 PM.
                        "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
                        tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
                        men."

                        -- Samuel Adams

                        sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by kmartin575
                          That 4.86 is incorrect actually, but whatever. I have read several sources that have stated that was a bad time and his 40 time is more in the 4.7 range. Also, Tamba Hali was carrying alot of extra weight as he weighed in at 275 at his pro day. His ideal playing weight (the weight he said he will play at) is at 260-265 at which he will be much faster.
                          So what you're saying is Hali has a motivation problem?
                          Isn't that what they said about a USC RB this year?

                          Or maybe he just had a 'hammy injury and didn't tell anybody......

                          I'm curious.....

                          ...if Dumervill had run a 4.6 something, would that have been Hali's also?


                          Originally posted by 575
                          And in the end, 40 times really don't matter all that much
                          Unless Hali's numbers were better.....



                          ...then LOOKOUT!
                          "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
                          tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
                          men."

                          -- Samuel Adams

                          sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            --- Elvis has been sliced and diced and dissected so much in this thread ---

                            --- I can smell the formaldehyde !!!

                            ---
                            .

                            May God Bless all men and women of our Armed Forces, past and present
                            The Only Thing Necessary For The Triumph Of Evil Is For Good Men To Do Nothing
                            http://www.navyjack.info/history.html
                            My Adopted Bronco is #95 Derek Wolfe

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by AZ Snake Fan
                              --- Elvis has been sliced and diced and dissected so much in this thread ---

                              --- I can smell the formaldehyde !!!

                              ---
                              .
                              Sure that's not a chef fan?



                              "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
                              tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
                              men."

                              -- Samuel Adams

                              sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                I really love the comparisons made on this thread between Elvis and Hali by kmartin575.


                                Hali was a great first round pick huh?

                                And Elvis is fat and slow huh?

                                However, Hali is heavier by approx 30lbs and Elvis is one to two tenths faster.

                                You make a great and compelling argument there chiefs fan!

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