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  • #76
    Originally posted by Pipes7
    I really love the comparisons made on this thread between Elvis and Hali by kmartin575.


    Hali was a great first round pick huh?

    And Elvis is fat and slow huh?

    However, Hali is heavier by approx 30lbs and Elvis is one to two tenths faster.

    You make a great and compelling argument there chiefs fan!
    Well, in all fairness, Hali is a better prospect because of his size. If Dumervil was 6-3', he'd be a first rounder too...

    But, kmart's posts are all skewed and bass-ackwards...typical troll.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Pipes7
      Just remember that the 20% body fat report came from a Chiefs fan.

      It takes more than a teaspoon of sugar for me to swallow anything a Chiefs fans says.
      If you want the source I got it from go read it in the Pro Football Weekly 2006 Draft Preview Magazine. I got it directly from there.
      "And we all know that stats don't mean anything if you don't have the wins to back them up"-ChampWJ

      It's a good thing Jay Cutler was a proven winner in college. Oh wait, nevermind.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by PsychoChicken
        Which goes completely against the argument about speed you made earlier. Nice.

        Anyway, Dumervil isn't going to be able to put on much weight. 20 lbs appears to be an impossible number (slim waist, too much fat), and that would be the bare minimum for him to play DT. Don't believe that article. It doesn't merit all this discussion. Dumervil is strictly a DE.

        By the way, 20% body fat is terrible. I don't know how you guys can consider that an acceptable number for a right defensive end. Again, he was the only guy at the Senior Bowl with a BEER BELLY. He looked flabby and simply put, terrible. Dumervil needs to cut that number in half if he wants to reach his potential.
        Did I make an argument about speed earlier? I may have, but I don't remember doing so. All I remember was saying 4.75 was Dumervil's 40 time. I was not arguing that it was fast or slow, but was being precise when somebody else said he ran in the 4.7 range at the combine.
        "And we all know that stats don't mean anything if you don't have the wins to back them up"-ChampWJ

        It's a good thing Jay Cutler was a proven winner in college. Oh wait, nevermind.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by rcsodak
          So what you're saying is Hali has a motivation problem?
          Isn't that what they said about a USC RB this year?

          Or maybe he just had a 'hammy injury and didn't tell anybody......

          I'm curious.....

          ...if Dumervill had run a 4.6 something, would that have been Hali's also?




          Unless Hali's numbers were better.....



          ...then LOOKOUT!
          Hali had a motivation problem? No, not at all. He has said that his playing weight could vary by weak. If he was playing a team with a good run game who would pound the ball at the defense he would increase his weight to as high as 280. If he was playing a team that might run to the outside more or a team with a running quarterback he would drop his weight back down to around 265. The Chiefs have said they want him to stay down around 265 where he will be much more effective for us.
          "And we all know that stats don't mean anything if you don't have the wins to back them up"-ChampWJ

          It's a good thing Jay Cutler was a proven winner in college. Oh wait, nevermind.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Pipes7
            I really love the comparisons made on this thread between Elvis and Hali by kmartin575.


            Hali was a great first round pick huh?

            And Elvis is fat and slow huh?

            However, Hali is heavier by approx 30lbs and Elvis is one to two tenths faster.

            You make a great and compelling argument there chiefs fan!
            Considering Hali is around 270-275 where do you get that he is 30 pounds heavier? I don't think Dumervil weighs a mere 240-245 pounds. Also, I never called Dumervil slow. I stated his 40 time of 4.75, but I never said that was slow. I posted that to clarify it for somebody else. And like I said in another post, Tamba Hali's 40 time of 4.86 is incorrect and he actually runs in the 4.7 range. Also, considering the conferences they are in Tamba Hali went against alot better competition in college. Elvis Dumervil was productive in college against inferior competition.
            "And we all know that stats don't mean anything if you don't have the wins to back them up"-ChampWJ

            It's a good thing Jay Cutler was a proven winner in college. Oh wait, nevermind.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by kmartin575
              Considering Hali is around 270-275 where do you get that he is 30 pounds heavier? I don't think Dumervil weighs a mere 240-245 pounds. Also, I never called Dumervil slow. I stated his 40 time of 4.75, but I never said that was slow. I posted that to clarify it for somebody else. And like I said in another post, Tamba Hali's 40 time of 4.86 is incorrect and he actually runs in the 4.7 range. Also, considering the conferences they are in Tamba Hali went against alot better competition in college. Elvis Dumervil was productive in college against inferior competition.
              You are right, I mistyped...I meant to put 20lbs.
              The Chiefs website lists him at 275 and the Broncos website lists Elvis at 258.

              20. Kansas City Chiefs
              The pick: Tamba Hali, DE, Penn State
              Scouts take: Hali projected as a first-round pick, and he should push for immediate playing time, but this isn't a great pick for two reasons. First, the Chiefs have more pressing needs. Second, they are reaching by taking Hali this early in the first round. Though Hali is a strong run defender and shows a variety of pass rush moves, he lacks ideal athletic ability and closing speed. That means he doesn't have great upside, and it's unlikely he'll be able to take some attention away from Jared Allen, who frequently gets double teamed in pass-rush situations.-Todd McShay of ESPN

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Pipes7
                You are right, I mistyped...I meant to put 20lbs.
                The Chiefs website lists him at 275 and the Broncos website lists Elvis at 258.

                20. Kansas City Chiefs
                The pick: Tamba Hali, DE, Penn State
                Scouts take: Hali projected as a first-round pick, and he should push for immediate playing time, but this isn't a great pick for two reasons. First, the Chiefs have more pressing needs. Second, they are reaching by taking Hali this early in the first round. Though Hali is a strong run defender and shows a variety of pass rush moves, he lacks ideal athletic ability and closing speed. That means he doesn't have great upside, and it's unlikely he'll be able to take some attention away from Jared Allen, who frequently gets double teamed in pass-rush situations.-Todd McShay of ESPN
                That guy is an idiot. Take a look at this little tidbit to see why Hali's supposedly slow time and his "lack of strength" will hurt him.

                Combine/pro day numbers:

                Tamba Hali: 4.86, 18 reps of 225 bench press
                Jared Allen: 4.88, 13 reps of 225 bench press

                Jared Allen is slower and weaker than Hali, yet that hasn't stopped him from collecting 20 sacks his first two NFL seasons and 7 forced fumbles last year. Hali was great as a senior at DE and he is still getting better considering he played several years at DT in college and is relatively new to the DE position.

                Also, the Chiefs really didn't have more pressing needs. Our offense has been fine for quite some time without great receivers, and cornerback is not as pressing a need as most of these "scouts" think, especially if we go out and get Ty Law.

                Until his pro day at Penn State, most mock drafts had Hali being taken at #15 by the Falcons (that was of course before they traded for John Abraham). Suddenly, a bad workout at his pro day changed Hali and made him a bad player? I don't think so. These so called "scouts" are tools who put too much emphasis on workout numbers. Herm Edwards is a coach who knows defense and if he likes what he sees with Hali then I think he knows a little more than this stupid Todd McIdiot.
                Last edited by kmartin575; 05-07-2006, 12:48 AM.
                "And we all know that stats don't mean anything if you don't have the wins to back them up"-ChampWJ

                It's a good thing Jay Cutler was a proven winner in college. Oh wait, nevermind.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by kmartin575
                  That guy is an idiot. Take a look at this little tidbit to see why Hali's supposedly slow time and his "lack of strength" will hurt him.

                  Combine/pro day numbers:

                  Tamba Hali: 4.86, 18 reps of 225 bench press
                  Jared Allen: 4.88, 13 reps of 225 bench press

                  Jared Allen is slower and weaker than Hali, yet that hasn't stopped him from collecting 20 sacks his first two NFL seasons and 7 forced fumbles last year. Hali was great as a senior at DE and he is still getting better considering he played several years at DT in college and is relatively new to the DE position.

                  Also, the Chiefs really didn't have more pressing needs. Our offense has been fine for quite some time without great receivers, and cornerback is not as pressing a need as most of these "scouts" think, especially if we go out and get Ty Law.
                  I don't want you to think that I don't like Hali-cause I do. His story is amazing...I saw it on draft day and there is an article on ESPN's website also.

                  But really Elvis has only played full-time for two seasons now.

                  Fresh...did nothing
                  Soph...spot work
                  Jun...regular duty at DE and got 11.5 sacks
                  Sen...led nation in sacks

                  I think that it is amazing how a guy can be ultra-productive in college, but still slips mainly due to being shorter than most and getting blocked well at a Senior Bowl by the best offensive lineman in the country.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by theshiverman
                    Really? wow, i guess all the scouting reports on him were wrong and his lack of size never got him Sealed up into the inside on outside runs 50% of the time, But hey the way some of these guys are pumping him up around here maybe he should have been picked number 1 instead of Mario Williams, looks like we got a steal to get him in the 4th! Somebody be sure to call the Pope when Elvis walks on water.
                    If you know what a UTs job is you wouldn't be disputing this. They are the pass rushing DT. I never was hpying him up to be the 1st overall pick I'm just saying that he has pass rushing abilties and it wouldn't be crazy to play him at UT on passing downs to get Lang and Ekuban in at the same time at the DE spots. I wanted us to get a DT/De with the pick we got Scheffer at, but we didn't I'm not going to cry over spilled milk. Dumervil in the 4th is better than no D-linemen at all.
                    sigpic
                    PSN & XBL: Vicious2500
                    You Shed Tears of Scarlet

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by kmartin575
                      That guy is an idiot. Take a look at this little tidbit to see why Hali's supposedly slow time and his "lack of strength" will hurt him.

                      Combine/pro day numbers:

                      Tamba Hali: 4.86, 18 reps of 225 bench press
                      Jared Allen: 4.88, 13 reps of 225 bench press

                      Jared Allen is slower and weaker than Hali, yet that hasn't stopped him from collecting 20 sacks his first two NFL seasons and 7 forced fumbles last year. Hali was great as a senior at DE and he is still getting better considering he played several years at DT in college and is relatively new to the DE position.

                      Also, the Chiefs really didn't have more pressing needs. Our offense has been fine for quite some time without great receivers, and cornerback is not as pressing a need as most of these "scouts" think, especially if we go out and get Ty Law.

                      Until his pro day at Penn State, most mock drafts had Hali being taken at #15 by the Falcons (that was of course before they traded for John Abraham). Suddenly, a bad workout at his pro day changed Hali and made him a bad player? I don't think so. These so called "scouts" are tools who put too much emphasis on workout numbers. Herm Edwards is a coach who knows defense and if he likes what he sees with Hali then I think he knows a little more than this stupid Todd McIdiot.
                      So what you saying is that anybody that has low combine #'s according to the average is going to be a great player?
                      sigpic
                      PSN & XBL: Vicious2500
                      You Shed Tears of Scarlet

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by vicious2500
                        If you know what a UTs job is you wouldn't be disputing this. They are the pass rushing DT. I never was hpying him up to be the 1st overall pick I'm just saying that he has pass rushing abilties and it wouldn't be crazy to play him at UT on passing downs to get Lang and Ekuban in at the same time at the DE spots. I wanted us to get a DT/De with the pick we got Scheffer at, but we didn't I'm not going to cry over spilled milk. Dumervil in the 4th is better than no D-linemen at all.
                        You got THAT right! A short DT is better than none.

                        And Dummerville at least has done something in college. Admittedly, it was against inferior teams, but he's actually sacked the QB a few times.

                        I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping he turns out to be underrated. He could emerge in a few years as a pass-rushing force, just like Reggie Hayward did (before Shanahan let him get away that is).
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by vicious2500
                          So what you saying is that anybody that has low combine #'s according to the average is going to be a great player?
                          No I am not saying that. However, if a player like is like Hali and gives his 100% on every play then the speed and other measurables do not matter all that much. People who have watched entire Penn State games and paid attention to Tamba Hali have said that if you look at his play in the 1st quarter and his play in the 4th quarter you could really not tell a difference because he played non-stop the entire game.
                          "And we all know that stats don't mean anything if you don't have the wins to back them up"-ChampWJ

                          It's a good thing Jay Cutler was a proven winner in college. Oh wait, nevermind.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            not to change the subject but have you ever seen hali's picture.....he looks like hes 50 years old!!!! lol
                            "If you fumble the ball, I will break off my foot in your John Brown hind parts; and then you will run a mile."My Adopted bronc is Duke Ihenacho

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Broncos86
                              not to change the subject but have you ever seen hali's picture.....he looks like hes 50 years old!!!! lol
                              Yeah, he kind of does look old.
                              "And we all know that stats don't mean anything if you don't have the wins to back them up"-ChampWJ

                              It's a good thing Jay Cutler was a proven winner in college. Oh wait, nevermind.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by kmartin575
                                That guy is an idiot. Take a look at this little tidbit to see why Hali's supposedly slow time and his "lack of strength" will hurt him.

                                Combine/pro day numbers:

                                Tamba Hali: 4.86, 18 reps of 225 bench press
                                Jared Allen: 4.88, 13 reps of 225 bench press

                                Jared Allen is slower and weaker than Hali, yet that hasn't stopped him from collecting 20 sacks his first two NFL seasons and 7 forced fumbles last year. Hali was great as a senior at DE and he is still getting better considering he played several years at DT in college and is relatively new to the DE position.

                                Also, the Chiefs really didn't have more pressing needs. Our offense has been fine for quite some time without great receivers, and cornerback is not as pressing a need as most of these "scouts" think, especially if we go out and get Ty Law.

                                Until his pro day at Penn State, most mock drafts had Hali being taken at #15 by the Falcons (that was of course before they traded for John Abraham). Suddenly, a bad workout at his pro day changed Hali and made him a bad player? I don't think so. These so called "scouts" are tools who put too much emphasis on workout numbers. Herm Edwards is a coach who knows defense and if he likes what he sees with Hali then I think he knows a little more than this stupid Todd McIdiot.
                                Jared alllen is Explosive off the snap .. i think this is why he creates so many mismatches.. while it is not one of halis strong points from what i have seen and read
                                The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
                                While he sits by his hearth at home.
                                Quickly finds when questioned by others .
                                That he knows nothing at all.

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