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  • #31
    Originally posted by myoung
    It was reported by several sources that teams all had Holmes and Jackson as 1-2 in the draft for WRs. Marshall was not anywhere near that and he got drafted just where everyone thought he would. Most scouting firms have him rated as a mid to low chance to make it in the NFL.

    If we had him as a grade similar to Holmes or Jackson, first I would question our ability to judge talent, but then we would have been crazy to let him fall to the fourth.

    Players that are drafted high do have higher expectations and if you don't hold someone accountable for it teams tend to make bad drafting decisions. The bottom line is that the teams that draft the best tend to consistently win. The Steelers, Pats, and Eagles have done very well for years and have consistently played well during that time. They get performance out of most of their high draft picks and then they find some players in the rough.
    "sources" are nothing more than rumors. Also the judging of talent cannot be based on stuff that you have read. Scouting firms are also just like fans and have no clue what they are talking about. Most all of them base almost their entire mocks and comments on combine workouts and little else.

    Alls I have to say to you is T.O. Same size, speed, catching ability, and all your "scouting/mock" people that you seem to have so much trust in have all compared him to T.O. Guess what, DRAFTED IN THE 4TH.

    They also all said that he has this and that of weaknesses such as running routes. Now this would hold some weight with me if the best corner in the league didn't just say the exact opposite of him.

    I don't even know why I am arguing any of this considering most all of the argument is based on something I never said.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by myoung
      first I will apologize for not reading your original post well.

      second I will slightly disagree with this. They do not change expectations. There is no one that expectst the same from a 7th round pick that they do from a first rounder. This completely flies in the face of the process. Bellicheck will not receive heat if his next three seventh rounders don't make the team. He would receive heat if his next three first rounders don't. There is a huge difference. If this was the case they would be paid the same and treated the same in pre season. Even the Pats expect more from first round draft picks. They just do a better job of picking at each level of the draft.

      If you look at the investments they have made in the first round they have been very good in recent years. The Pats also like to pick known players from known colleges that have produced against top talent. Which of course is a little different than our discussion earlier. They also focus on quality values at the picking position. They don't seem to reach alot. Which is why Chad Jackson was such a great pick this year. Not because he is a lock but for his grade he was a steal at that point of the draft.
      OK here is why they take known players and players from big schools first. They are the safer choice seeing as how they know exactly what to expect. The later rounds you usually start seeing more and more guys from smaller or more unknown schools and programs comming in. The higher expectations would only come from the fact that they are more known players. This is mostly from the fans. Every pick other than maybe the top 10-15 are expected to come in and be what the coach drafted them for. They are all expected to make the team or the coach wouldnt draft them anyways. Some are project players and may be drafted for a practice squad role but even those guys are expected to become starters someday. If you dont expect the same from them then you would be telling the other guys they are less worth while to look at. This would not help in getting them the confidense to go out and become a starter.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by myoung
        Not really. The third round pick we threw in there was to move the one we acquired for moving down from 22 with the 49ers..... So we started with one third rounder and traded it away.
        Yeah that is right I wasnt thinking.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by jhns
          "sources" are nothing more than rumors. Also the judging of talent cannot be based on stuff that you have read. Scouting firms are also just like fans and have no clue what they are talking about. Most all of them base almost their entire mocks and comments on combine workouts and little else.

          Alls I have to say to you is T.O. Same size, speed, catching ability, and all your "scouting/mock" people that you seem to have so much trust in have all compared him to T.O. Guess what, DRAFTED IN THE 4TH.

          They also all said that he has this and that of weaknesses such as running routes. Now this would hold some weight with me if the best corner in the league didn't just say the exact opposite of him.

          I don't even know why I am arguing any of this considering most all of the argument is based on something I never said.
          first sources are not just rumors. Several of the key sources actually see the players perform and rate the talent. Most of them are somewhat consistent to draft day which played out (at the WR position) similar to the ratings of most scouting "sources".

          And for every T.O (who is big and fast) that makes it in the NFL from the 4th round there is a :

          Jammi Germaine

          interesting note on the 1996 draft. That was a great draft for WRs.

          and don't get me wrong. I really hope that Marshall plays well for us. But after reviewing our performance the last several years late in the draft I am not going to hold my breath on Dumerville, Hixon, Marshall, etc.... Most of our late round guys don't stick for long at all and many of them really never make the field.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by myoung
            first sources are not just rumors. Several of the key sources actually see the players perform and rate the talent. Most of them are somewhat consistent to draft day which played out (at the WR position) similar to the ratings of most scouting "sources".

            And for every T.O (who is big and fast) that makes it in the NFL from the 4th round there is a :

            Jammi Germaine

            interesting note on the 1996 draft. That was a great draft for WRs.

            and don't get me wrong. I really hope that Marshall plays well for us. But after reviewing our performance the last several years late in the draft I am not going to hold my breath on Dumerville, Hixon, Marshall, etc.... Most of our late round guys don't stick for long at all and many of them really never make the field.
            Also all of those sources said if there where actually good receivers in this class none of the receivers that did come out would have gone before the 4th round. So really they had no more value than Marshall they where just picked higher because of no other options for teams.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by jhns
              Also all of those sources said if there where actually good receivers in this class none of the receivers that did come out would have gone before the 4th round. So really they had no more value than Marshall they where just picked higher because of no other options for teams.
              actually most scouting firms had grades for Jackson and Holmes in the 80s on a scale of 1-100. Whereas Marshall was typically in the 50s. There was a big difference. I saw some tape on Marshall and I like what I saw but he is on the slower side and he did alot with seperation not size in college. He could do that because he was fast against his competition. He will most likely not be fast in the NFL and will not have the luxury of seperation in most cases. He could be effective using his size.

              BTW T.O. is one of the best athletes in the NFL and most would argue that he plays alot faster than any 40 speed he may have timed years ago. He is generally considered one of the fastest recievers in the NFL. If Marshall could become that, great but there are few that are the athletic specimen of T.O. and I certainly would not put Marshall anywhere near that yet..... And I am just talking about athletic ability. Chad Jackson is the closest thing to T.O., athletically, in this draft. He is a little smaller but he has the superior athletic ability that T.O. has.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by TheChampion
                Cutler next year + Walker if he does not recover fully from knee < Holmes + Jackson

                people on this board reallly welcome people who bring a diverse opinion to the board don't they.....

                by the way...welcome bubbajared

                First off, I wasn't saying anything bad...merely my own preference.
                Secondly, the original post doesn't even necessarily say which one he prefers...so I wasn't really disagreeing with anybody.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by myoung
                  actually most scouting firms had grades for Jackson and Holmes in the 80s on a scale of 1-100. Whereas Marshall was typically in the 50s. There was a big difference. I saw some tape on Marshall and I like what I saw but he is on the slower side and he did alot with seperation not size in college. He could do that because he was fast against his competition. He will most likely not be fast in the NFL and will not have the luxury of seperation in most cases. He could be effective using his size.

                  BTW T.O. is one of the best athletes in the NFL and most would argue that he plays alot faster than any 40 speed he may have timed years ago. He is generally considered one of the fastest recievers in the NFL. If Marshall could become that, great but there are few that are the athletic specimen of T.O. and I certainly would not put Marshall anywhere near that yet..... And I am just talking about athletic ability. Chad Jackson is the closest thing to T.O., athletically, in this draft. He is a little smaller but he has the superior athletic ability that T.O. has.
                  Haha. TO is not even close to being one of the fastest receivers in the league. He just can make any catch and can make defenders miss after the catch.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by cinnamunmun
                    Wait, I thought Shanny was targeting Maroney with the 15th pick?

                    Yes he was and that's what I meant. Sorry for the typo. (Me )
                    John 11: 25-27

                    My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                    Thanks Snk16

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