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  • Which DE?

    From one of the draft prospect rankings I found, it said that these three would probably be a late 1st to early 2nd DE's: Adam Carriker, Lamar Woodley, Quentin Moses

    Now if we do end up picking a DE first and we stay with the draft pick (21) we have now, which is one would you draft?



  • #2
    I would like Moses or Jarvis Moss (both have a lot of potential which are new coahes could use well)

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    • #3
      Probably Carriker, but......

      Originally posted by stepurgameup101
      From one of the draft prospect rankings I found, it said that these three would probably be a late 1st to early 2nd DE's: Adam Carriker, Lamar Woodley, Quentin Moses

      Now if we do end up picking a DE first and we stay with the draft pick (21) we have now, which is one would you draft?

      ....Just so I don't get torched again I'll just say I'd rather wait till after the combine/pro days to choose between these 3.

      .

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      • #4
        Originally posted by BF_forever
        I would like Moses or Jarvis Moss (both have a lot of potential which are new coahes could use well)

        How bout Moss AND Moses? I don't care what anyone say's, this would be sweet!

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        • #5
          I see no purpose for either Moss or Moses. Both are situational pass rushers, and we have one of those already in Elvis Dumervil, who had a successful rookie year.

          I could imagine very few scenarios where we would go with multiple speed rushers due to our small LBs. That's a recipe for disaster. Even on obvious passing downs, a draw could be lethal since the running lanes would be massive.


          If I had to choose from those three, I would go with Carriker, and I would start him at Power End, and shift him inside to the 3 on passing downs. Perhaps, I'd even keep Carriker at the 3 permanently if Brown can come back from his injury, or Ekuban plays as well as he did last year. Either way, Dumervil gets more snaps at Rush End.

          (Taking Moss or Moses would negate Dumervil, and he had a great year, so I see no reason to do that).

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          • #6
            They would be just situational pass rushers this year.

            Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
            I see no purpose for either Moss or Moses. Both are situational pass rushers, and we have one of those already in Elvis Dumervil, who had a successful rookie year.

            I could imagine very few scenarios where we would go with multiple speed rushers due to our small LBs. That's a recipe for disaster. Even on obvious passing downs, a draw could be lethal since the running lanes would be massive.


            If I had to choose from those three, I would go with Carriker, and I would start him at Power End, and shift him inside to the 3 on passing downs. Perhaps, I'd even keep Carriker at the 3 permanently if Brown can come back from his injury, or Ekuban plays as well as he did last year. Either way, Dumervil gets more snaps at Rush End.

            (Taking Moss or Moses would negate Dumervil, and he had a great year, so I see no reason to do that).
            The difference between Moss/Moses and Dumervil is that Moss/Moses might actually start someday...

            And I wouldn't doubt if they are both already better against the run...

            .

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            • #7
              Originally posted by stnzed
              The difference between Moss/Moses and Dumervil is that Moss/Moses might actually start someday...

              And I wouldn't doubt if they are both already better against the run...

              .
              True.....and they play on opposite sides, so you could use them both at the same tme.

              I see this philosophy as no different than what Indy does...

              Freeney is 6'1"-268 and Mathis on the other side is listed at about 245 or so...

              I personally still like Quentoin Moses. He is a quality player and athlete. He had an off Sr. year, but I don't think you can read too much into that. He is a smart kid, a great athlete and a very good character kid, who also comes with the long arms and basketball player build that historically has been very successful in the NFL. I still believe he is going to be a very good NFL player and I think a good team will realize that and he will still be a solid first round pick, and I would have no qualms what-so-ever about that team being the Broncos.

              If scouts downgrade him too much, it will be a severe case of over analysation IMO, because the kid did not become a bad football player overnight.
              Last edited by MindField; 02-06-2007, 07:46 PM.

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              • #8
                MUG, I do not agree with you that Moses and Moss are just situational guys, I don't think that can really be based off their size, unless you're formulating your opinion based on play; which in that case, I really don't understand why you believe so. Welcome back though.

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                • #9
                  Charles Johnson over all those scrubs!
                  Eric Weddle S Utah

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MindField
                    True.....and they play on opposite sides, so you could use them both.

                    I see this philosophy as no different than what Inedy does...

                    Freeney is 6'1"-268 and Mathis on the other side is listed at about 245 or so.

                    I personally still like Moses. He is a quality player and athlete. He had an off year, but I don't think you can read too much into that. He is a smart kid, a great athlete and a very good character kid, who also comes with the long arms and basketball player build that histlrically has been very successful in the NFL.

                    If scouts downgrade him too much, it will be a severe case of over analysation IMO, because the kid did not become a bad football player overnight.

                    Oh I like Moses too....And once everything is said and done he won't drop far, imo.

                    I'll bet he can hold the weight when he gets in a program in the pro's...

                    .

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by stnzed
                      Oh I like Moses too....And once everything is said and done he won't drop far, imo.

                      I'll bet he can hold the weight when he gets in a program in the pro's...

                      .

                      Yeah, he is a solid 6'5"-250 now. That's right about where you want him. He can easily put on 5 to 15lbs no problem....just like Willie McGinest did, or example.

                      That puts him in the same general build as Jevon Kearse, Jason Taylor, Charles Haley, KGB, Alfred Williams, Adewale Ogunglye, Alex Brown, etc, etc, etc...

                      All good to very good pass rushers from the NFL past and present with the same general body type as Quentin Moses.

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                      • #12
                        Yeah

                        Originally posted by lord_helmet
                        Charles Johnson over all those scrubs!

                        I would be cool with him as our No. 1 pick...

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dream
                          MUG, I do not agree with you that Moses and Moss are just situational guys, I don't think that can really be based off their size, unless you're formulating your opinion based on play; which in that case, I really don't understand why you believe so. Welcome back though.

                          They both are rush specialists that are poor against the run. They are just situational guys for several years likely until they beef up and finetune their game. In the meantime, we already have a Rush End that is undersized and is effective in his pass rush role, and that's Dumervil.

                          If we draft Moss or Moses, they will have to do the pass rushing specialist role. Which means we have two one dimensional ends on the field at once, or we are not utilizing Dumervil, which he's already proven he's good in that role.

                          We can't have two small ends on the field at once with our small LBs, because then we will be run roughshod over, just like Indy. Not to mention, it was easy for teams to shut down Freeney and Mathis last season because they knew the LBs and DTs were no threat. On top of shutting them down, teams ran the ball down their throat.

                          On top of all this, we have alot of DEs on the roster. We never draft D-line in the first anyway, and we have a pure pass rush specialist that needs more playing time already.

                          Regardless of whether I think Moses and Moss will be good pros (and I think they could be), they don't fit our team needs as well as a safety, OT, or Adam Carriker. Our team needs on the D-line is Power End (if Brown leaves) and Under Tackle (if the scheme changes) or another Nose for depth (if it does not). I dont see how a one-dimensional rush end helps this team when we already have a very good one.

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                          • #14
                            Let's just get rid of Ian Gold and draft Patrick Willis. . .

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
                              They both are rush specialists that are poor against the run. They are just situational guys for several years likely until they beef up and finetune their game. In the meantime, we already have a Rush End that is undersized and is effective in his pass rush role, and that's Dumervil.

                              If we draft Moss or Moses, they will have to do the pass rushing specialist role. Which means we have two one dimensional ends on the field at once, or we are not utilizing Dumervil, which he's already proven he's good in that role.

                              We can't have two small ends on the field at once with our small LBs, because then we will be run roughshod over, just like Indy. Not to mention, it was easy for teams to shut down Freeney and Mathis last season because they knew the LBs and DTs were no threat. On top of shutting them down, teams ran the ball down their throat.

                              On top of all this, we have alot of DEs on the roster. We never draft D-line in the first anyway, and we have a pure pass rush specialist that needs more playing time already.

                              Regardless of whether I think Moses and Moss will be good pros (and I think they could be), they don't fit our team needs as well as a safety, OT, or Adam Carriker. Our team needs on the D-line is Power End (if Brown leaves) and Under Tackle (if the scheme changes) or another Nose for depth (if it does not). I dont see how a one-dimensional rush end helps this team when we already have a very good one.

                              So let another one dimensional player like Engelberger go...Besides I'm not sure these two can't become starters...And I'm not sure Dumervil will ever be more than he is!

                              I've never read anything suggesting these two will never be more situational pass rushers.

                              As far as size goes....They're both already bigger than Dumervil.

                              The biggest team need is getting to Manning before he eats their lunch.
                              Last edited by stnzed; 02-06-2007, 08:17 PM.

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