Jake will NOT be dealt to Houston

[Cugel]

Ok, Cugel. Let's give this a workout.

Do you mind explaining why Brady Quinn would be the smart choice for a franchise with a horrid offensive line, where the only sure handed receivers are a young TE and aged veteran receiver? Explain why a young QB like Quinn would be a great fit for a team whose offensive line has surrendered 52 Sacks this past season?

Also, I never said that I absolutely wanted Alan Branch to be the #1 pick for the Browns. I said I wanted Branch if Joe Thomas was not on the Board anymore. That there shows that the Branch pick is circumstantial. It depends on the circumstances and that I really want Joe Thomas instead.

HIJACK! :offtopic:

Since we now have to turn this thread into a "Browns appreciation seminar" instead of talking about a team I care about (the Broncos) here goes:

Because the Browns QB is Charlie Frye! That ought to be reason enough!

True, the Browns suck at numerous positions including OL and DL. Thus they could use Joe Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Jamal Anderson, Calvin Johnson, or Alan Branch.

But, if you're a Browns fan you have to hope the Browns won't be picking in the top 10 next year (they probably will be, but Browns fans can't think that way). And if you're not picking in the top 10 next year (being slightly optomistic and thinking the Browns with a decent draft could improve to maybe 7-9 or 8-8), then you're not going to be in a postion to draft a franchise QB.

Look at what Vince Young did for an AWFUL Titans team? They are now drafting 19th!

So, if you need an elite QB don't wait if you have the chance to draft one because there are other needs! That's the ONE position that is hardest in the entire NFL to get -- your franchise QB.

Yes occasionally lightning strikes and you find Tom Brady in the 6th round, but your chances of winning the power-ball lotto are about as good as expecting that a pro-bowl QB will fall to the 6th round. I.e. don't hold your breath. Most of the really good QBs in this league were taken in the top 10 or 12 places of the 1st round, many were top 5 picks.

How bad were the Bengals before they took Carson Palmer?

I would have thought all this was a plain as day to every knowlegeable football fan.

You don't need a top 10 pick to get a decent OL or DE or WR or RB who could help the team. Plenty of good players are found in the later first, second or 3rd rounds at those positions. It's true that elite DTs are rare, but they are simply not as important as a top QB.

The Browns are simply never going to have a chance to win a SB until they have that QB. Only a team that already has a good QB set for the next few years can afford to ignore Quinn and draft Joe Thomas or well, anything else really.

Is there any doubt that Brady Quinn or JaMarcus Russell (if he somehow fell) would be vast improvements over Charlie Frye or any other Browns QB? (If you think not then we have nothing to discuss -- I'm certainly not going into an endless argument about the Browns QB situation, when I'm a BRONCOS fan and couldn't really care less).

And the Browns could address their needs at OL in later rounds and even next year.

When you suck as bad as the Browns, it's not a one year building job. They need help all over the map. But, you first have to have the franchise QB.

[hardcorebronco]

The Browns are simply never going to have a chance to win a SB until they have that QB. Only a team that already has a good QB set for the next few years can afford to ignore Quinn and draft Joe Thomas or well, anything else really.

Is there any doubt that Brady Quinn or JaMarcus Russell (if he somehow fell) would be vast improvements over Charlie Frye or any other Browns QB? (If you think not then we have nothing to discuss -- I'm certainly not going into an endless argument about the Browns QB situation, when I'm a BRONCOS fan and couldn't really care less).

And the Browns could address their needs at OL in later rounds and even next year.

When you suck as bad as the Browns, it's not a one year building job. They need help all over the map. But, you first have to have the franchise QB.

*reads Cugel's Post again*









Charlie Brown, You have been officially owned.
This message brought to you in part by the, "You have been officially owned foundation". Thanks for stopping by the Broncomania Message boards! :wave:

Nice work there Cugel!

To get back on topic: I think Carr has had his time in Houston, whether or not it was entirely his fault is debatable. But i think he has to go in the minds of the fans. Plummer is a good qb, and can contribute to that organization. We all know its a good fit.. yada yada yada. The realistic part though is there is little chance of us prying away that #8 overall. I dont even think we would want to spend the picks/players to get there. I see jake being traded off for a 3rd or 4th rounder. That in turn could be used to launch us up higher to the mid teens if we wanted, or be used as another first day pick. I think Foster is likely to be traded but not to the texans... so dont package him in. Tatum is off the trading block i think, due to the tragic loss of Damian, RIP.

Anyway, thats what i think. Dont get caught up in all the petty language of trade rumors, very rarely are they true. And they are often over hyped to convince another organization they arent interested, when they really are.

[Cugel]

*reads Cugel's Post again*

Charlie Brown, You have been officially owned.
This message brought to you in part by the, "You have been officially owned foundation". Thanks for stopping by the Broncomania Message boards! :wave:

Nice work there Cugel!

To get back on topic: I think Carr has had his time in Houston, whether or not it was entirely his fault is debatable. But i think he has to go in the minds of the fans. Plummer is a good qb, and can contribute to that organization. We all know its a good fit.. yada yada yada. The realistic part though is there is little chance of us prying away that #8 overall. I dont even think we would want to spend the picks/players to get there. I see jake being traded off for a 3rd or 4th rounder. That in turn could be used to launch us up higher to the mid teens if we wanted, or be used as another first day pick. I think Foster is likely to be traded but not to the texans... so dont package him in. Tatum is off the trading block i think, due to the tragic loss of Damian, RIP.

Anyway, thats what i think. Dont get caught up in all the petty language of trade rumors, very rarely are they true. And they are often over hyped to convince another organization they arent interested, when they really are.

I think it's more than this.

Suppose you are Kubiak. Do you want to surrender a draft pick for Plummer? Any pick, let alone the #8 pick of the first round? No!

Do you have to? Well, that's an interesting point.

You have to assess what the chances are that another team will offer the Broncos a draft pick for Plummer that's high enough that it would be worth it to Shahahan to take the pick -- even though that will cause the team a $3 million cap hit over designating Plummer as a June 1 cut.

Because if the team trades Plummer instead of making him a June 1 cut then his remaining signing bonus is accelerated immediately and the team takes a $6 million cap hit (or something like that), but if he is cut after June 1 then the hit is divided between this year and next.

So, it costs the team less $ to release Plummer after June 1 than to trade him.

But, Shahahan doesn't want Plummer to walk if they can get something reasonable for him (i.e. maybe a 3rd round pick).

So, if some team is willing to offer a 3rd rounder for Plummer then Shanahan would deal him. But, if it's maybe a 4th or 5th rounder it might not be worth it.

In that case, the Broncos don't trade Plummer and if the Texans want him they could just wait until June and sign him as a FA.

But, if the Texans think the Browns (just to piss Charlie Brown off :wave: ) or the Bucs or some team might actually offer Denver a decent pick for Plummer in trade, then obviously Texas can't just wait.

All this assumes that the want Jake in the first place, which they might not. They might just want to keep Carr.

I don't know how many years Kubiak can go on pissing the Texans fans off though. Last year they all wanted Reggie Bush or possibly Vince Young and they got DE Mario Williams instead. Williams will be good, but so was Sam Bowie (taken before Michael Jordan).

If Bush turns out to be the next LT or Vince Young goes on to a hall of fame career then nobody in Texas is ever going to forget it.

So, this year they could very well have ANOTHER chance to get that franchise QB instead of the bust Carr if Brady Quinn falls to #8 (which he would if Charlie Brown were picking for the Browns)! :wave: