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Jake will NOT be dealt to Houston

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  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by hardcorebronco



    *reads Cugel's Post again*

    Charlie Brown, You have been officially owned.
    This message brought to you in part by the, "You have been officially owned foundation". Thanks for stopping by the Broncomania Message boards! :wave:

    Nice work there Cugel!

    To get back on topic: I think Carr has had his time in Houston, whether or not it was entirely his fault is debatable. But i think he has to go in the minds of the fans. Plummer is a good qb, and can contribute to that organization. We all know its a good fit.. yada yada yada. The realistic part though is there is little chance of us prying away that #8 overall. I dont even think we would want to spend the picks/players to get there. I see jake being traded off for a 3rd or 4th rounder. That in turn could be used to launch us up higher to the mid teens if we wanted, or be used as another first day pick. I think Foster is likely to be traded but not to the texans... so dont package him in. Tatum is off the trading block i think, due to the tragic loss of Damian, RIP.

    Anyway, thats what i think. Dont get caught up in all the petty language of trade rumors, very rarely are they true. And they are often over hyped to convince another organization they arent interested, when they really are.
    I think it's more than this.

    Suppose you are Kubiak. Do you want to surrender a draft pick for Plummer? Any pick, let alone the #8 pick of the first round? No!

    Do you have to? Well, that's an interesting point.

    You have to assess what the chances are that another team will offer the Broncos a draft pick for Plummer that's high enough that it would be worth it to Shahahan to take the pick -- even though that will cause the team a $3 million cap hit over designating Plummer as a June 1 cut.

    Because if the team trades Plummer instead of making him a June 1 cut then his remaining signing bonus is accelerated immediately and the team takes a $6 million cap hit (or something like that), but if he is cut after June 1 then the hit is divided between this year and next.

    So, it costs the team less $ to release Plummer after June 1 than to trade him.

    But, Shahahan doesn't want Plummer to walk if they can get something reasonable for him (i.e. maybe a 3rd round pick).

    So, if some team is willing to offer a 3rd rounder for Plummer then Shanahan would deal him. But, if it's maybe a 4th or 5th rounder it might not be worth it.

    In that case, the Broncos don't trade Plummer and if the Texans want him they could just wait until June and sign him as a FA.

    But, if the Texans think the Browns (just to piss Charlie Brown off :wave: ) or the Bucs or some team might actually offer Denver a decent pick for Plummer in trade, then obviously Texas can't just wait.

    All this assumes that the want Jake in the first place, which they might not. They might just want to keep Carr.

    I don't know how many years Kubiak can go on pissing the Texans fans off though. Last year they all wanted Reggie Bush or possibly Vince Young and they got DE Mario Williams instead. Williams will be good, but so was Sam Bowie (taken before Michael Jordan).

    If Bush turns out to be the next LT or Vince Young goes on to a hall of fame career then nobody in Texas is ever going to forget it.

    So, this year they could very well have ANOTHER chance to get that franchise QB instead of the bust Carr if Brady Quinn falls to #8 (which he would if Charlie Brown were picking for the Browns)! :wave:

    Leave a comment:


  • hardcorebronco
    replied
    Originally posted by Cugel
    The Browns are simply never going to have a chance to win a SB until they have that QB. Only a team that already has a good QB set for the next few years can afford to ignore Quinn and draft Joe Thomas or well, anything else really.

    Is there any doubt that Brady Quinn or JaMarcus Russell (if he somehow fell) would be vast improvements over Charlie Frye or any other Browns QB? (If you think not then we have nothing to discuss -- I'm certainly not going into an endless argument about the Browns QB situation, when I'm a BRONCOS fan and couldn't really care less).

    And the Browns could address their needs at OL in later rounds and even next year.

    When you suck as bad as the Browns, it's not a one year building job. They need help all over the map. But, you first have to have the franchise QB.



    *reads Cugel's Post again*









    Charlie Brown, You have been officially owned.
    This message brought to you in part by the, "You have been officially owned foundation". Thanks for stopping by the Broncomania Message boards! :wave:

    Nice work there Cugel!

    To get back on topic: I think Carr has had his time in Houston, whether or not it was entirely his fault is debatable. But i think he has to go in the minds of the fans. Plummer is a good qb, and can contribute to that organization. We all know its a good fit.. yada yada yada. The realistic part though is there is little chance of us prying away that #8 overall. I dont even think we would want to spend the picks/players to get there. I see jake being traded off for a 3rd or 4th rounder. That in turn could be used to launch us up higher to the mid teens if we wanted, or be used as another first day pick. I think Foster is likely to be traded but not to the texans... so dont package him in. Tatum is off the trading block i think, due to the tragic loss of Damian, RIP.

    Anyway, thats what i think. Dont get caught up in all the petty language of trade rumors, very rarely are they true. And they are often over hyped to convince another organization they arent interested, when they really are.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlie Brown
    Ok, Cugel. Let's give this a workout.

    Do you mind explaining why Brady Quinn would be the smart choice for a franchise with a horrid offensive line, where the only sure handed receivers are a young TE and aged veteran receiver? Explain why a young QB like Quinn would be a great fit for a team whose offensive line has surrendered 52 Sacks this past season?

    Also, I never said that I absolutely wanted Alan Branch to be the #1 pick for the Browns. I said I wanted Branch if Joe Thomas was not on the Board anymore. That there shows that the Branch pick is circumstantial. It depends on the circumstances and that I really want Joe Thomas instead.
    HIJACK! :offtopic:

    Since we now have to turn this thread into a "Browns appreciation seminar" instead of talking about a team I care about (the Broncos) here goes:

    Because the Browns QB is Charlie Frye! That ought to be reason enough!

    True, the Browns suck at numerous positions including OL and DL. Thus they could use Joe Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Jamal Anderson, Calvin Johnson, or Alan Branch.

    But, if you're a Browns fan you have to hope the Browns won't be picking in the top 10 next year (they probably will be, but Browns fans can't think that way). And if you're not picking in the top 10 next year (being slightly optomistic and thinking the Browns with a decent draft could improve to maybe 7-9 or 8-8), then you're not going to be in a postion to draft a franchise QB.

    Look at what Vince Young did for an AWFUL Titans team? They are now drafting 19th!

    So, if you need an elite QB don't wait if you have the chance to draft one because there are other needs! That's the ONE position that is hardest in the entire NFL to get -- your franchise QB.

    Yes occasionally lightning strikes and you find Tom Brady in the 6th round, but your chances of winning the power-ball lotto are about as good as expecting that a pro-bowl QB will fall to the 6th round. I.e. don't hold your breath. Most of the really good QBs in this league were taken in the top 10 or 12 places of the 1st round, many were top 5 picks.

    How bad were the Bengals before they took Carson Palmer?

    I would have thought all this was a plain as day to every knowlegeable football fan.

    You don't need a top 10 pick to get a decent OL or DE or WR or RB who could help the team. Plenty of good players are found in the later first, second or 3rd rounds at those positions. It's true that elite DTs are rare, but they are simply not as important as a top QB.

    The Browns are simply never going to have a chance to win a SB until they have that QB. Only a team that already has a good QB set for the next few years can afford to ignore Quinn and draft Joe Thomas or well, anything else really.

    Is there any doubt that Brady Quinn or JaMarcus Russell (if he somehow fell) would be vast improvements over Charlie Frye or any other Browns QB? (If you think not then we have nothing to discuss -- I'm certainly not going into an endless argument about the Browns QB situation, when I'm a BRONCOS fan and couldn't really care less).

    And the Browns could address their needs at OL in later rounds and even next year.

    When you suck as bad as the Browns, it's not a one year building job. They need help all over the map. But, you first have to have the franchise QB.
    Last edited by Cugel; 02-27-2007, 01:13 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • TR3Y
    replied
    Originally posted by cutlerfan
    I hope we keep Plummer! I mean why bring in Garcia - Plummer is a lot better, younger and knows the system.

    It just makes sense.
    I agree 100%, however, I believe that Jake doesn't want to come back to Denver and the Broncos don't want to pay him what he would be due if he stuck around for 2007....

    Leave a comment:


  • cutlerfan
    replied
    Originally posted by redsandcowboy
    Again Getting rid of plummer or trade will not change our cap room much at all.

    releasing him actually gives us more space than the trade I believe. But not much difference

    I hope we keep Plummer! I mean why bring in Garcia - Plummer is a lot better, younger and knows the system.

    It just makes sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • TR3Y
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlie Brown
    Ok, Cugel. Let's give this a workout.

    Do you mind explaining why Brady Quinn would be the smart choice for a franchise with a horrid offensive line, where the only sure handed receivers are a young TE and aged veteran receiver? Explain why a young QB like Quinn would be a great fit for a team whose offensive line has surrendered 52 Sacks this past season?

    Also, I never said that I absolutely wanted Alan Branch to be the #1 pick for the Browns. I said I wanted Branch if Joe Thomas was not on the Board anymore. That there shows that the Branch pick is circumstantial. It depends on the circumstances and that I really want Joe Thomas instead.
    Everything I am hearing is that the Browns are in love with Adrian Peterson....

    Do you believe that maybe this is all smokescreens for someone else like Thomas???

    Leave a comment:


  • got_defense??
    replied
    You make a very good point Charlie, having an athletic q.b would help SOME, but a good offensive line is what it's all about. If ya can't protect him, it won't matter much who you put back there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Charlie Brown
    replied
    Originally posted by DancingHorsey
    Do you read every post on this board just looking for any mention of the Browns? It would seem so...
    This is the Draft Forum.

    The Browns are mentioned a lot in this forum. I am asking a perfectly logical question. Just waiting for a response from Cugel. Whenever he does that...

    Leave a comment:


  • BANJOPICKER1
    replied
    I hope Jake re works his contract and stays a Bronco!

    Leave a comment:


  • DancingHorsey
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlie Brown
    Ok, Cugel. Let's give this a workout.

    Do you mind explaining why Brady Quinn would be the smart choice for a franchise with a horrid offensive line, where the only sure handed receivers are a young TE and aged veteran receiver? Explain why a young QB like Quinn would be a great fit for a team whose offensive line has surrendered 52 Sacks this past season?

    Also, I never said that I absolutely wanted Alan Branch to be the #1 pick for the Browns. I said I wanted Branch if Joe Thomas was not on the Board anymore. That there shows that the Branch pick is circumstantial. It depends on the circumstances and that I really want Joe Thomas instead.
    Do you read every post on this board just looking for any mention of the Browns? It would seem so...

    Leave a comment:


  • Charlie Brown
    replied
    Originally posted by Gulbrand
    Because he would be a bona fide Francise QB?
    That doesn't say much. Take into account all that I said in my previous post. Tim Couch was a bona fide Franchise QB. However, behind the horrid OL he had, he received injury after injury and is now out of the NFL. So, mind taking into account what I said in my previous post?

    Leave a comment:


  • Gulbrand
    replied
    Because he would be a bona fide Francise QB?

    Leave a comment:


  • Charlie Brown
    replied
    Originally posted by Cugel
    Or the Browns could get smart suddenly and take Brady Quinn.
    Ok, Cugel. Let's give this a workout.

    Do you mind explaining why Brady Quinn would be the smart choice for a franchise with a horrid offensive line, where the only sure handed receivers are a young TE and aged veteran receiver? Explain why a young QB like Quinn would be a great fit for a team whose offensive line has surrendered 52 Sacks this past season?

    Also, I never said that I absolutely wanted Alan Branch to be the #1 pick for the Browns. I said I wanted Branch if Joe Thomas was not on the Board anymore. That there shows that the Branch pick is circumstantial. It depends on the circumstances and that I really want Joe Thomas instead.
    Last edited by Charlie Brown; 02-26-2007, 10:56 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cugel
    replied
    Do you guys ever bother to check the other threads? This has been gone over and over. What Sheffler said is flatly contradicted by the Texans GM:
    INDIANAPOLIS - Texans general manage Rick Smith said David Carr is the Texans starting quarterback, but he put an unsolicited qualifier onto those statements ... for now.

    "Right now? Yes. He is our starting quarterback, and we're excited about him improving in this offense," Smith said Thursday at the NFL draft combine.

    But does "right now" imply that he is going to be traded?

    "That's the truth," Smith said. "I'm saying that that is a possibility.

    "Stars have to line up correctly and the value has to be there, but we're going to improve our football team anyway that we can do so.

    "If that includes some type of trade, then we'll entertain that. That does not mean that we're going to do that absolutely, but we'll entertain it. If I'm saying right now and you draw an inference (that Carr might be traded) from that, then you are correct."
    Here's what I said in the other thread:
    Well, both those statements can't be correct! They flatly contradict each other!

    Their GM is opening the bidding for Carr saying "he might be traded." You don't say things like that if you are planning on keeping Carr!

    You think Carr wants to hear that? His GM says they might want to trade him "for the right offer"? Not exactly a huge vote of confidence is it?

    If you're going to keep a guy you say "Carr is our starting QB" and leave it at that. You don't say "for now" and then when the reporter asks you if that means Carr might be traded, go into a long spiel about how they have to get decent value, but "that would be correct."

    That's like dangling Carr out as bait!

    Whether that means they want Plummer or not remains to be seen. Perhaps they are only talking about Adrian Peterson in order to generate cover when they really intend to take Brady Quinn. Maybe the DO want Plummer and A.P., but would need more fire-power to move up to perhaps around #3 or #4 in the draft in order to get him (behind JaMarcus Russell, Joe Thomas and perhaps Calvin Johnson).

    That would probably be ideal from the Texans' point of view. Trade Carr for a 2nd round pick to get extra ammo. Bring in a veteran QB like Plummer (and hopefully DON'T give up any draft choices to do it) who's ready to start now and get either Calvin Johnson or Adrian Peterson for the offense.

    That combination could easily put the Texans into the playoffs next year (if they followed it up with getting some decent OL in the draft or via FA to block for them).
    LINK
    If the Texans are going to keep Carr then they don't have the ammunition to move up from #8 to #3 or #4 to get either Adrian Peterson or Calvin Johnson, both of whom should be long gone by the time they pick.

    In that case, they're looking at a guy like OT Levi Brown or maybe a safety. Solid players who will help but not instant super-stars.

    As for Plummer, if they want him they only have to wait until the Broncos cut him in June to get him.

    If he's NOT going to be given a chance to compete for a starting job he's not going to Texas. That means that if Carr stays Plummer doesn't go there.

    He could wind up in Tampa Bay, if the Bucs take Adrian Peterson -- which I think they should because he MIGHT just turn out to be the next L.T. -- and then how stupid will they look when Cardinals get him? Or if the Browns take Peterson, which they might very well, then take Calvin Johnson -- it's not like that's a bad choice either!

    Or the Browns could get smart suddenly and take Brady Quinn.

    Or they could do what all the Dawgfans on this board want (where do they all come from BTW?) and others want and take Alan Branch or Gaines Adams.

    Hard to go wrong when you pick at #3. You have to really screw up to miss that pick.
    Last edited by Cugel; 02-26-2007, 10:41 PM.

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  • rcsodak
    replied
    Originally posted by 22cannon
    You guys are hilarious. If he is cut it will be next week when roster bonuses are paid.
    Each team is afforded declaring June cuts BEFORE June.....

    ...that gives the player(s) ample time to catch on with another team. And being it's the QB position, the more time the better.

    Though I'm in agreement with most everybody else, and that he'll be dealt. It's in the best interest of Jake, AND the broncos.

    Leave a comment:

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