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Is Bates a 3-4 guy?

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  • Is Bates a 3-4 guy?

    I know Miami switched to a 3-4 in 2005, but was Bates on board with it? As long as Gold is here it is not really a possibility, but we are in a position to make that switch or at least move in that direction.

    First, we keep talking about how we need more DE and DTs yet we can not get a good one because we constantly draft late and are backed up against the wall in salary cap. Well, if we went 3-4 we just dropped the need for more Dline by 2.

    Can Elvis play in space? If he has the ability to play off the line on some plays he would make a terrific OLB in a 3-4. Wilson would be inside and we could draft Patrick Willis to man the other inside spot and he should be there at 21 (guy is very good IMO). That would put DJ at the ROLB. That would be a seriously talented group.

    As for the Dline, Meyers would be above avg at DE IMO. He has the bulk to seal the edge and could basically do what he does best, occupy territory. The other DE spot could be filled by Brown (if healthy) or there are quite a few undersized DTs that can be had in the 3rd or 4th round (McBean, McBribe, Kareem Brown).

    At DT Warren and Burton could play NT and we could pick up another bigger body later in the draft to groom (Soliai or Doughty).

    EE could rotate in on passing downs and Lang (although he does not like it) could play OLB in a 3-4 as he did it before. Other backup guys Webster could spell Wilson and Willis inside and Vaugnn (who played inside and out at LSU) could be part of a rotation.

    Ian Gold really is the piece that does not fit but maybe on passing downs could play OLB, basically that would be 50% of the snaps.

    I know it will not happen, but it would be a nice solution to our D needs and we wouldn't need to shell out the big $$$ trying to land a premier DT and DE.

    R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
    J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
    R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

  • #2
    Miami doesn't use a 3-4 defense. As for us using it, I think it might work, but I think we will be successful if we keep the 4-3 and get some good pass rushers.

    R.I.P. Darrent & Damien

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    • #3
      Miami ran a hybrid 3-4/4-3 last year, after trying to make a move to a 3-4 in 2005. I love the 3-4 because it hides so much of what you are trying to do.

      Guess my question is, would it be easier to switch to a 3-4 or find a DE and a DT for a solid 4-3? Chicago has spent a ton of resources on Dline to get to a great 4-3, but still the tops for sacks belonged to SD and Baltimore...both 3-4 Ds.

      R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
      J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
      R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

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      • #4
        The Broncos have toyed with the idea of utilizing the 3-4 in the recent past and have never really followed through. Maybe Bates would use it against certain teams who's offense struggles against the 3-4, such as the Colts', but there's no reason to believe that we'll be switching to the 3-4 as the primary defense. It would require a complete overhaul of the defense, which really wasn't as bad as some people seam to think.

        The offense was the primary reason for our failure to play aggressive defense. Remember the Super Bowl years when the offense was so powerful and controlled the ball so well that the defense could afford to take aggressive risks? That's what we lacked this past season. Even the season before, the offense was good enough to enable the defense to be aggressive. Coyer and Shanahan may have decided last offseason that it would be better to scale back the aggressive defensive play calling, but when it became clear that the front four couldn't generate a pass rush, they still couldn't resort to aggressive play calling on defense because they couldn't trust the offense to keep up it's end of the deal. The offense didn't have the ability to dominate the time of possession and therefore the defense was left exposed. We now have one of the better defensive minds running our defense and the next step to improving the defense is to improve our offense. Restore the offense's ability to control the time of possession and our defense will have a bettter chance to floursh. How to accomplish that? Draft a RB that can dominate a game.
        My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
        You Mad Bro?
        Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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        • #5
          We do not have the money to switch this year. We could only keep our LB's if we switched. Our entire d-line is here because they don't work in the 3-4 that the Browns installed. Our linebackers also would all work as outside guys but none of them have near the size to play middle in a 3-4. So we would need all new d-lineman, including backups, and about 4 new LB's. With only a little bit of cap space, this would be impossible.

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          • #6
            Im all for making the O a dominat force and have posted that AP and Graham would be the ultimate move we could make this offseason. I think Cutler, AP, Walker, Marshall, Rod (should do well as #3 WR) Schef and Graham would post 30 pts a game and as you mentioned dominate TOP.

            Signing Graham would pretty much blow the cap left to mak a FA signing on the Dline, which I am ok with since there really is not a whole lot out there. Which is why I think that converting to a 3-4 would be much easier than trying to get 2 guys for a 4-3.

            R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
            J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
            R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

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            • #7
              Originally posted by jhns
              We do not have the money to switch this year. We could only keep our LB's if we switched. Our entire d-line is here because they don't work in the 3-4 that the Browns installed. Our linebackers also would all work as outside guys but none of them have near the size to play middle in a 3-4. So we would need all new d-lineman, including backups, and about 4 new LB's. With only a little bit of cap space, this would be impossible.
              It is offseason so this is just random discussion:

              I could be wrong but Wilson, DJ and Vaughn could all play well in a 3-4. The question is can Lang and Elvis fill a 3-4 olb spot? It is easier to find a good LB in round 2-4 than a good DT/DE.

              I went over the Dline and Clev in fact wanted to keep both Brown and Meyers for the 3-4 but CB wanted to goto Denver and Clev wanted Rueben more than Meyers.

              I think we are three good players away from a great 3-4 D, but we are also 2 great players away from a great 4-3 D. So it is easier to find 3 good players or 2 great ones?

              R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
              J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
              R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

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              • #8
                I say we mix it up and use 3-4 half the time and 4-3 defense half the time,and confuse the shi.... out of teams.

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                • #9
                  Basically that is what a 3-4 is. Elvis drops to the line as a DT or DE and we are a 4-3. Could you imagine how hard it would be for opposing coaches to figure out where Elvis would be coming from?

                  R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
                  J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
                  R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

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                  • #10
                    Bates is a 4-3 guy, will not switch

                    Bates has not been a 3-4 in the past, and I don't seem him becoming one here. Bates was not with the Dolphins when they tried to switch in 2005, he left because he lost out on the HC job to Nick Saban. Bates was the DC for Green Bay in 2005 and out of football last year when again losing out on the Packers HC job to Mike McCarthy.

                    Bates has always used a straight up 4-3 defense wherever he has been. He doesn't like to blitz a whole lot, wants the pressure to come from the front four, likes 2 big DT to clog things up and free up the LB, and likes to move a safety close to the line to help in run support.

                    This is the exact thing Shanahan is looking for in my opinion since thats what they tried to play last year under Coyer, but Coyer was not suited to make the proper adjustments when teams were able to stop the pass rush. I think it just came down to Coyer being ill-suited to run the type of defense that Mike Shanahan and so he brought in Bates who has always ran this type of defense and gotten great results.

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                    • #11
                      With the roster we have now were lucky we have a 4-3.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JerryD3430
                        Bates has not been a 3-4 in the past, and I don't seem him becoming one here. Bates was not with the Dolphins when they tried to switch in 2005, he left because he lost out on the HC job to Nick Saban. Bates was the DC for Green Bay in 2005 and out of football last year when again losing out on the Packers HC job to Mike McCarthy.

                        Bates has always used a straight up 4-3 defense wherever he has been. He doesn't like to blitz a whole lot, wants the pressure to come from the front four, likes 2 big DT to clog things up and free up the LB, and likes to move a safety close to the line to help in run support.

                        This is the exact thing Shanahan is looking for in my opinion since thats what they tried to play last year under Coyer, but Coyer was not suited to make the proper adjustments when teams were able to stop the pass rush. I think it just came down to Coyer being ill-suited to run the type of defense that Mike Shanahan and so he brought in Bates who has always ran this type of defense and gotten great results.
                        Thanks.

                        Well if no 3-4 is in the future then we are once again 2 guys short of being able to bring pressure with the front 4.

                        Solution is once again Graham and AP IMO, need to outscore teams and make the one dimentional.

                        R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
                        J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
                        R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

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