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Trade up to #6 (truth afterall?)

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
    Actually no.

    Bly is terrible when he's man v. man against a top WR/QB combo. He gambles much too often and he bites on almost any fake. Reggie Wayne would destroy him.

    The problem is we have no pass rush still and no inside push to collapse the pocket. I think we would actually be worse with Dre Bly starting against Wayne then Foxworth because with our D-line Manning will have all sorts of time to juke and fake, and with our horrible coverage safeties, Bly won't have any help over the top when he bites.

    I think people need to listen to the Lions fans that watched Bly the last few years. Torrance Holt and Kenoy Kennedy are probably as bad, if not a smidgen better in coverage then our safeties. And Bly was burned often due to a poor pass rush and poor safeties.

    That's probably why he doesn't want to sign here. With Bailey on the other side, he knows he'll be embarassed weekly because we have no pass rush nor coverage safeties. He's a good ball hawking CB WHEN he's on a defense that can pressure the QB into mistakes and the defense has a centerfield safety that can cover the WR when Bly gets faked out.
    A couple of points.

    1. I doubt I would place much stock in the Detroit fans' comments. The minute a player leaves a team the fans say "he wasn't that great anyway." Especially if the team is a losing team and there's always a lot of blame to go around on the Lions.

    2. I don't know that Bly really IS a one-year rental. He wants top CB dollars, but Denver managed to sign Ian Gold and they could proably find a way to sign Bly. I suspect something like this has already occurred. Bly was apparently quite miffed at the Broncos for interrupting the Skins trade when he found the team wasn't rushing to give him a new contract.

    But, now all we hear is peace and tranquility from him and his agent. They must have been told something. My guess is that the Broncos assured them that an extended contract would be negotiated later this summer if a trade couldn't be worked out before then. If the Broncos wanted to back-load the thing, they could probably accomplish it.

    I'm not saying that would be good cap management, but they could probably get away with it, especially if they managed to trade Al Wilson and got a cap benefit from it.

    3. I'd love to see Okoye in a Broncos uniform. But, I doubt whether reports that the Broncos were doing "due diligence" on him bear much weight. For years Shanahan has made a practice of EXTREME pre-draft paranoia. He sends scouts to scout players he's not interested in just as a diversion, there's almost never a pre-draft hint from the Broncos camp about who they might take. He runs a tight ship.

    I think if he's really interested in trading up for Okoye he'd find some way to check him out without it getting into the press so that every other team in the league knew about it.

    4. If Denver really does get to #6 they may very well have a number of attractive options, not the least would be finding either Gaines Adams, Adam Carriker or Jamaal Anderson sitting there when they pick.

    Shanahan still needs a LDE who can play strong against the run and yet is a decent pass-rusher. There isn't really a player on the roster that fits that description. Yes, he could possibly take a DE later in the draft, but if he traded his #2 pick to move up, that would limit his options quite a bit. He might not find what he wanted in the third round. That leaves Ekuban or Lang to play that position, which is less than ideal.

    I'm not saying that move would be bad, it's just that there are a number of options at that point depending on who would be available.

    Right now the conventional wisdom would have either Anderson or Adams gone at #5, so the Broncos could certainly find a potential pro-bowl DE or DT at that pick. I don't know what Shanahan would do at that point or who might be tops on his draft board.
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    • #62
      Originally posted by Cugel
      A couple of points.

      1. I doubt I would place much stock in the Detroit fans' comments. The minute a player leaves a team the fans say "he wasn't that great anyway." Especially if the team is a losing team and there's always a lot of blame to go around on the Lions.

      2. I don't know that Bly really IS a one-year rental. He wants top CB dollars, but Denver managed to sign Ian Gold and they could proably find a way to sign Bly. I suspect something like this has already occurred. Bly was apparently quite miffed at the Broncos for interrupting the Skins trade when he found the team wasn't rushing to give him a new contract.

      But, now all we hear is peace and tranquility from him and his agent. They must have been told something. My guess is that the Broncos assured them that an extended contract would be negotiated later this summer if a trade couldn't be worked out before then. If the Broncos wanted to back-load the thing, they could probably accomplish it.

      I'm not saying that would be good cap management, but they could probably get away with it, especially if they managed to trade Al Wilson and got a cap benefit from it.

      3. I'd love to see Okoye in a Broncos uniform. But, I doubt whether reports that the Broncos were doing "due diligence" on him bear much weight. For years Shanahan has made a practice of EXTREME pre-draft paranoia. He sends scouts to scout players he's not interested in just as a diversion, there's almost never a pre-draft hint from the Broncos camp about who they might take. He runs a tight ship.

      I think if he's really interested in trading up for Okoye he'd find some way to check him out without it getting into the press so that every other team in the league knew about it.

      4. If Denver really does get to #6 they may very well have a number of attractive options, not the least would be finding either Gaines Adams, Adam Carriker or Jamaal Anderson sitting there when they pick.

      Shanahan still needs a LDE who can play strong against the run and yet is a decent pass-rusher. There isn't really a player on the roster that fits that description. Yes, he could possibly take a DE later in the draft, but if he traded his #2 pick to move up, that would limit his options quite a bit. He might not find what he wanted in the third round. That leaves Ekuban or Lang to play that position, which is less than ideal.

      I'm not saying that move would be bad, it's just that there are a number of options at that point depending on who would be available.

      Right now the conventional wisdom would have either Anderson or Adams gone at #5, so the Broncos could certainly find a potential pro-bowl DE or DT at that pick. I don't know what Shanahan would do at that point or who might be tops on his draft board.
      1. One of my good friends writes the Lions editorials for Football.com. I've heard about Dre Bly for quite awhile now, years in fact. I place great stock in what my friend thinks concerning that team and its players.

      2. If he's not a one-year rental, or the team believes they can sign him long term, then as I've stated, the trade doesn't make sense. I bet he becomes our nickel back though, he's going to be a massive FA bust if we really start him outside at CB with our defensive set up. Right or wrong, I'll revisit this opinion after the season.

      3. I'm not sure I agree. Yes, we've done that in recent history, but it makes little sense to hire an employee without first consulting with him. Perhaps, if he had spent more time with DJ Williams, he would have known he wasn't a WILL LB from the start. Or that perhaps Foster wouldn't fit our scheme afterall. He already admitted he based his draft of Cutler last year off of Jeff Fisher's opinion. Am I the only person that finds this absolutely ridiculous for a multi-million dollar business entity? At some point the team has to change its failing methodology.

      4. Power Ends are out in Jim Bates scheme. There is no Rush End/Power End difference. There is only Rush End...on both sides. Players like Carlos Hall, Kenard Lang, and John Engleberger will shine in this defense as all they have to do is attack the QB. I strongly believe without a shadow of a doubt that Amobi Okoye is the best defensive player in this draft by a mile.



      All that being said, I still think this trade has a 10% likelihood. In the end, I believe Washington will consider Okoye too good to pass up.

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      • #63
        It's also worth noting Cugel, that the Broncos might have to strongly consider OT Joe Staley again. He's now firmly in the 15-25 range after the "most impressive Pro Day display ever by an O-lineman".


        So, that's another obstacle that may make the trade less enticing.

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        • #64
          I haven't been on the internet since Friday/Saturday, but it's good to here that Denver is bringing in a defensive lineman for a private workout. Last year we brought in Holmes, Jackson, Lee, etc. and it was a complete and total smokescreen. I don't believe it's the case here. The Broncos roster is solid at most areas and the glaring weakness is DL. Okoye is a rare player at the position and we should bring him in to work out, pending what we have to give up to get him. I honestly don't mind giving up #56, Bly and Wilson for him. I'll have more to say when I get back to Fargo from my trip in a few days, but yeah.

          Thanks for letting me know.

          Being out in the boonies of Minnesota doesn't let me much access of this kind, have been making some phone calls though.

          Interesting.

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          • #65
            I admit he looks great on paper and would love to have him on our team. I think he could be agreat asset. But not at the cost of 2 starters and a pick. If it is for 1 starter and a pick I woul dhave to look at it closer and if it is for AL or bly straight up I am all for it. But I think unless Washington is smoking something that is a dream and nothing else.

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