Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Wilkinson/McKinley Give Insight To Broncos Direction

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Wilkinson/McKinley Give Insight To Broncos Direction

    I think te trade for Wilkinson, and the signing of Alvin McKinley show that the Broncos are thinking the same way most seem to be about the DT depth in the Draft, and that is it basically sucks.

    Seriously, beyond Amobi Okoye, who is probably a Top Ten kid now, who would you really want to spend a first day pick on?

    I would really only consider three:

    Justin Harrell: At 6'4"-308 or so, he is a clogger in the Gerard Warren mode, which is not what the Broncos need. We need a penetrator to go ALONG with Warren. Harrell may turn out to be a fine player, but a Warren/Harrell combo at DT will mean we aren't getting much of a push fron the DT spot.


    Kareem Brown: This kid has as much upside as any DT in the Draft. I have watched his Sr. Bowl practice battles with Auburn OG Ben Grubbs over and over again, and they were the real deal, and the closest thing to the NFL, IMO, at the Sr. Bowl practices. It also clearly showed Brown was on par with a player of Grubbs' talent as a late first/early second rounder...ah, but there's a catch. Brown was a disappointment as a Sr. with the 'Canes, and never really lived up to expectations, and now looks like a late second rounder, when some projected him as a Top Ten talent before the season started, so clearly, he was a disappointment. So now any team that takes him is drafting the dreaded word:
    'Potential', which is sort for 'hasn't done it yet.'

    Marcus Thomas: IMO, this kid is the closest thing to what the Broncos need for their DT situation, a quick, penetrating DT that can get to and close on the QB. As a player, Thomas has been compared to Toimmie Harris. The team that takes him should be so lucky, as with his character issues, he will probably be selected no higher than the third round.
    Thomas has great ability, but he got kicked off the Championship team twice last year, and cost himself a chance to play for a Title. Pretty stupid, and that in itself will be enough to keep some teams away.

    That's basically it. I would not spend a first day pick on any other DT, and even these players come with baggage, and I would probably pass on them as well.

    If the Broncos' recent moves are any indication, maybe they are thinking the same.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Downhill Runner
    I think te trade for Wilkinson, and the signing of Alvin McKinley show that the Broncos are thinking the same way most seem to be about the DT depth in the Draft, and that is it basically sucks.

    Seriously, beyond Amobi Okoye, who is probably a Top Ten kid now, who would you really want to spend a first day pick on?

    I really would only be happy with a couple.

    Justin Harrell: At 6'4"-308 or so, he is a clogger in the Gerard Warren mode, which is not what the Broncos need. We need a penetrator to go ALONG with Warren. Harrell may turn out to be a fine player, but a Warren/Harrell combo at DT will mean we aren't getting much of a push fron the DT spot.


    Kareem Brown: This kid has as much upside as any DT in the Draft. I have watched his Sr. Bowl practice battles with Auburn OG Ben Grubbs over and over again, and they were the real deal, and the closest thing to the NFL, IMO, at the Sr. Bowl practices. It also clearly showed Brown was on par with a player of Grubbs' talent as a late first/early second rounder...ah, but there's a catch. Brown was a disappointment as a Sr. with the 'Canes, and never really lived up to expectations, and now looks like a late second rounder, when some projected him as a Top Ten talent before the season started, so clearly, he was a disappointment. So now any team that takes him is drafting the dreaded word:
    'Potential', which is sort for 'hasn't done it yet.'

    Marcus Thomas: IMO, this kid is the closest thing to what the Broncos need for their DT situation, a quick, penetrating DT that can get to and close on the QB. As a player, Thomas has been compared to Toimmie Harris. The team that takes him should be so lucky, as with his character issues, he will probably be selected no higher than the third round.
    Thomas has great ability, but he got kicked off the Championship team twice last year, and cost himself a chance to play for a Title. Pretty stupid, and that in itself will be enough to keep some teams away.

    That's basically it. I would not spend a first day pick on any other DT, and even these players come with baggage, and I would probably pass on them as well.

    If the Broncos' recent moves are any indication, maybe they are thinking the same.


    tank tyler?







    props to snk16 on the sig thx brother

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by trick
      tank tyler?
      Another clogger in the Warren mode. We may already have a Tyler clone in Antwan Burton, who at 6'2"-318 is built similarly, and the Broncos are said to like him alot.

      Tyler, to me, is more of a 3-4 Nose Guard. Just my opinion.

      Comment


      • #4
        Don't forget about Brandon Mebane from Cal. This guy is a beast. At 6-1 305, playing on a d-line with just about zero talent, he still racked up 14.5 career sacks and 25.5 career sacks.



        quick Mebane vid
        http://youtube.com/watch?v=1kVets7Yx8c

        Zero Wing, the greatest Japanese to English translation ever...

        Comment


        • #5
          Yah i think it means we may be looking at DE and safety with our first couple picks... maybe a OT or Guard (Carlile if he leaves?) but most likely DE and safety first. Maybe they are concerned at safety because they realize Lynch is close to retirement and Fergy and brandon are ok role players but both are up there really in age and neither will be "great" players. I think there is room for an instant person to come in and contribute.

          DE is also obviously a need, i am inclined to think we may trade up for either position.

          I dont think we like sitting at 21+ and taking the best player availible, but would rather trade up for a immediate contributor that we target. I see 11 as the highest we trade up though... 13-17 is more likely. Targets?

          Branch? (may fall)
          Okoye? (who knows...)
          Landry? (Cant never tell, expecially if falcons trade way up!)
          Nelson? (Thats if we go to 15 or so...)
          Carriker? (Could be around in the early teens)



          Whoever it is, i think we may consider it worthwhile rather than stay at 21 and take moss or some other 2nd tier player.
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by hardcorebronco
            Yah i think it means we may be looking at DE and safety with our first couple picks... maybe a OT or Guard (Carlile if he leaves?) but most likely DE and safety first. Maybe they are concerned at safety because they realize Lynch is close to retirement and Fergy and brandon are ok role players but both are up there really in age and neither will be "great" players. I think there is room for an instant person to come in and contribute.

            DE is also obviously a need, i am inclined to think we may trade up for either position.

            I dont think we like sitting at 21+ and taking the best player availible, but would rather trade up for a immediate contributor that we target. I see 11 as the highest we trade up though... 13-17 is more likely. Targets?

            Branch? (may fall)
            Okoye? (who knows...)
            Landry? (Cant never tell, expecially if falcons trade way up!)
            Nelson? (Thats if we go to 15 or so...)
            Carriker? (Could be around in the early teens)



            Whoever it is, i think we may consider it worthwhile rather than stay at 21 and take moss or some other 2nd tier player.
            The Broncos may very well have something completely different in mind, which could include trading the pick up or down.

            Since I have no way of knowing what they might be thinking, I simply take their moves as an indication.

            One of the rules of the Draft is that you don't draft for need and force the issue.

            We did that with Ashley Lelie, and passed on Ed Reed.

            We did that with D.J Williams, and passed on Stephen Jackson.

            To me, the DT situation is the same. We would be reaching for a player in a poor class, which almost never works out.

            But if the Broncos stay at No. 21, they will still be able to get a very good player,
            DE Anthony Spncer, FS Michael Griffen and OG Ben Grubbs are all players on the rise that are very likely to be at No. 21, and would fill a need for us, so it won't be a case of having to Draft a reach.

            If we stay there, we will have a chance to get a very good player at No. 21, don't worry.
            Last edited by Downhill Runner; 03-22-2007, 12:14 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Downhill Runner
              The Broncos may very well have something completely different in mind, which could include trading the pick up or down.

              Since I have no way of knowing what they might be thinking, I simply take their moves as an indication.

              One of the rules of the Draft is that you don't draft for need and force the issue.

              We did that with Ashley Lelie, and passed on Ed Reed.

              We did that with D.J Williams, and passed on Stephen Jackson.

              To me, the DT situation is the same. We would be reaching for a player in a poor class, which almost never works out.

              But if the Broncos stay at No. 21, they will still be able to get a very good player,
              DE Anthony Spncer, FS Michael Griffen and OG Ben Grubbs are all players on the rise that are very likely to be at No. 21, and would fill a need for us, so it won't be a case of having to Draft a reach.

              If we stay there, we will have a chance to get a very good player at No. 21, don't worry.
              I think both of your examples are very poor. In the Lelie case he was clearly the second rated WR in that draft. By most accounts he should have gone before us or at least by our pick. We were not reaching to fill a need. In fact there were few mock drafts or scouts that had Reed rated higher than Lelie.

              In the DJ case clearly there were alot of Bronco fans that wanted Stephen Jackson. He slipped more than he should have and would have been a nice pickup for us. But we did not reach at all to fill a need in that case. On our draft board DJ Williams was rated very high. He was on most other boards as well. we have a tendancy to pass on RBs real early because we have picked up so many good ones late.

              we were not forcing the issue in either of these situations. It is also not fair to look back on a draft and choose the player that was the best and say we made an awful mistake passing on him. You fail to point out all of the other players we passed on who were busts.

              Now if you want to use George Foster, Terry Pierce, or Watts as examples of us reaching because of need I would agree with you. I think your point is ok but the examples are not the best. In your case we chose two players in slot where they should have been drafted and we did not force anything. The fact that somebody else drafted later turned out better is simply part of the draft.....

              I guess I could also be critical because we passed on Marques Colston last year....

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by myoung
                I think both of your examples are very poor. In the Lelie case he was clearly the second rated WR in that draft. By most accounts he should have gone before us or at least by our pick. We were not reaching to fill a need. In fact there were few mock drafts or scouts that had Reed rated higher than Lelie.

                In the DJ case clearly there were alot of Bronco fans that wanted Stephen Jackson. He slipped more than he should have and would have been a nice pickup for us. But we did not reach at all to fill a need in that case. On our draft board DJ Williams was rated very high. He was on most other boards as well. we have a tendancy to pass on RBs real early because we have picked up so many good ones late.

                we were not forcing the issue in either of these situations. It is also not fair to look back on a draft and choose the player that was the best and say we made an awful mistake passing on him. You fail to point out all of the other players we passed on who were busts.

                Now if you want to use George Foster, Terry Pierce, or Watts as examples of us reaching because of need I would agree with you. I think your point is ok but the examples are not the best. In your case we chose two players in slot where they should have been drafted and we did not force anything. The fact that somebody else drafted later turned out better is simply part of the draft.....

                I guess I could also be critical because we passed on Marques Colston last year....

                I disagree.

                Ed Reed was clearly a player the Broncos could have used. Lelie may have been the No. 2 WR in the class, but that just re-affirms the class was a poor one.

                There is no question Ed Reed was an outstanding player coming out of Miami. He was THE playmaker of the National Championship Defense, so it was all there to see. He was discounted by some because they did not like his measureables; clearly a case of some scouts over-thinking themselves. I think history has been rather one-sided that Reed turned out to be the better player. Since Reed was projected in the 18-22 range in that Draft, and we had a need for his services, I personally was shocked and disappointed to take a bean-pole receiver from Hawaii that played in a finesse Offense and did not like contact....at least the scouts got that right and it turned out to be his MO in the NFL. So I would have to say you are wrong and that the primary need, in this case WR, dictated the pick, and the Broncos have payed the price for it.

                D.J. Williams was Drafted absolutley as a need pick in the wake of losing Ian Gold and the Broncos having virtually no depth at LB. Stephen Jackson was a suprise to be available even where the Broncos ended up selecting Williams. But once again, scouts over analyzed the situation, questioned Jackson, and the Broncos assumed they could find a back in a lowe round....and after a promising Rookie season, Williams has pretty much lived up to the questions surrounding him, which questioned his instincts, and he has pretty much been the 'Invisible Man' in our LB corp ever since, while Jackson has become one of the elite runners in the NFL, something both his value and grades indicated he would be.

                So, unlike your exaggerated example of cherry-picking a seventh round player like Colston after the fact, both Reed and Jackson were the players I sat in front of the TV fully expecting to hear their names called by Tagliabue at the time Lelie and Williams were selected.

                Hardly a reach in either case.
                Last edited by Downhill Runner; 03-22-2007, 12:42 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Downhill Runner
                  I disagree.

                  Ed Reed was clearly a player the Broncos could have used. Lelie may have been the No. 2 WR in the class, but that just re-affirms the class was a poor one.

                  Walker was picked after Lelie.....
                  "Some people in this world make things happen, some people in this world know what happened, but most people wonder what happened."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Downhill Runner
                    I disagree.

                    Ed Reed was clearly a player the Broncos could have used. Lelie may have been the No. 2 WR in the class, but that just re-affirms the class was a poor one.

                    There is no question Ed Reed was an outstanding player coming out of Miami. He was THE playmaker of the National Championship Defense, so it was all there to see. He was discounted by some because they did not like his measureables; clearly a case of some scouts over-thinking themselves. I think history has been rather one-sided that Reed turned out to be the better player. Since Reed was projected in the 18-22 range in that Draft, and we had a need for his services, I personally was shocked and disappointed to take a bean-pole receiver from Hawaii that played in a finesse Offense and did not like contact....at least the scouts got that right and it turned out to be his MO in the NFL. So I would have to say you are wrong and that the primary need, in this case WR, dictated the pick, and the Broncos have payed the price for it.

                    D.J. Williams was Drafted absolutley as a need pick in the wake of losing Ian Gold and the Broncos having virtually no depth at LB. Stephen Jackson was a suprise to be available even where the Broncos ended up selecting Williams. But once again, scouts over analyzed the situation, questioned Jackson, and the Broncos assumed they could find a back in a lowe round....and after a promising Rookie season, Williams has pretty much lived up to the questions surrounding him, which questioned his instincts, and he has pretty much been the 'Invisible Man' in our LB corp ever since, while Jackson has become one of the elite runners in the NFL, something both his value and grades indicated he would be.

                    So, unlike your exaggerated example of cherry-picking a seventh round player like Colston after the fact, both Reed and Jackson were the players I sat in front of the TV fully expecting to hear their names called by Tagliabue at the time Lelie and Williams were selected.

                    Hardly a reach in either case.
                    Lelie was taken instead of Javon Walker because his college coach was close to Shanahan and claimed he'd be a star NFL player.

                    As for Ed Reed, nobody thought he'd be as good as he turned out to be. It WAS obvious he was going to be good and would have made a good pick.

                    As for D.J. Williams, as MUG points out endlessly, he is really a MLB. His utility at MLB is why the Broncos were shopping Al Wilson earlier this off-season. He's simply burried at the SLB position where he takes on TEs and OTs a lot and doesn't get to make many plays.

                    At first there was a lot of blather about swapping him on different series with Ian Gold, but that never made any sense since Gold is 220 lbs and too light to play at the SLB position. D.J. was constantly being taken off the field on 3rd down passing downs.

                    One of Bates' challenges this season is to get more use out of Williams and he claims to be impressed with his ability. I have no idea what they will do with him unless Al Wilson is traded (doubtful at this point).

                    The really bad thing about Williams was the the Broncos actually traded up to get him (they had to get ahead of New Orleans which was set to grab him at #18). The Saints were rightly pissed about that. He would have made a good quality MLB in N.O. and the Broncos could have drafted another better suited player.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cugel
                      Lelie was taken instead of Javon Walker because his college coach was close to Shanahan and claimed he'd be a star NFL player.

                      As for Ed Reed, nobody thought he'd be as good as he turned out to be. It WAS obvious he was going to be good and would have made a good pick.

                      As for D.J. Williams, as MUG points out endlessly, he is really a MLB. His utility at MLB is why the Broncos were shopping Al Wilson earlier this off-season. He's simply burried at the SLB position where he takes on TEs and OTs a lot and doesn't get to make many plays.

                      At first there was a lot of blather about swapping him on different series with Ian Gold, but that never made any sense since Gold is 220 lbs and too light to play at the SLB position. D.J. was constantly being taken off the field on 3rd down passing downs.

                      One of Bates' challenges this season is to get more use out of Williams and he claims to be impressed with his ability. I have no idea what they will do with him unless Al Wilson is traded (doubtful at this point).

                      The really bad thing about Williams was the the Broncos actually traded up to get him (they had to get ahead of New Orleans which was set to grab him at #18). The Saints were rightly pissed about that. He would have made a good quality MLB in N.O. and the Broncos could have drafted another better suited player.
                      I don't agree with that either. Williams' lack of instinctive play would be further exposed at MLB. He is simply a case of a talented athlete that does not posses the inticts to play the LB position. Remember, he was a player that made a late move to that position, moving his Soph. yr in college from RB, so its not like he grew up a premier LB.

                      D.J. Williams is what he is. Since he has three yrs left on his contract, and is not a salary-cap burden, we shouold just let him play it out and leave via free agency in three yrs.

                      Gold and Wilson are much more damaging to the cap, because they are in the middle of big Free Agent contracts, and as good as Wilson is, he is not worth the money he gets paid, and Ian (Fools) Gold is a joke.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Downhill Runner
                        I don't agree with that either. Williams' lack of instinctive play would be further exposed at MLB. He is simply a case of a talented athlete that does not posses the inticts to play the LB position. Remember, he was a player that made a late move to that position, moving his Soph. yr in college from RB, so its not like he grew up a premier LB.

                        D.J. Williams is what he is. Since he has three yrs left on his contract, and is not a salary-cap burden, we shouold just let him play it out and leave via free agency in three yrs.

                        Gold and Wilson are much more damaging to the cap, because they are in the middle of big Free Agent contracts, and as good as Wilson is, he is not worth the money he gets paid, and Ian (Fools) Gold is a joke.

                        What do you have against our LBs. They are in the top 3 groups in the league.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          IM not opposed to staying at 21.WE could get a DE possibly like Charles Johnson or a safety like Griffin.There is a lot of value in rnds 2-3 for DE,DT,S,and WR and with 3 picks in rnds 2-3 we could fill those needs pretty well.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Downhill Runner
                            I don't agree with that either. Williams' lack of instinctive play would be further exposed at MLB. He is simply a case of a talented athlete that does not posses the inticts to play the LB position. Remember, he was a player that made a late move to that position, moving his Soph. yr in college from RB, so its not like he grew up a premier LB.

                            D.J. Williams is what he is. Since he has three yrs left on his contract, and is not a salary-cap burden, we shouold just let him play it out and leave via free agency in three yrs.

                            Gold and Wilson are much more damaging to the cap, because they are in the middle of big Free Agent contracts, and as good as Wilson is, he is not worth the money he gets paid, and Ian (Fools) Gold is a joke.
                            what the fook
                            are you saying our LB's are crap?

                            do you even understand what football is

                            this is not soccer

                            damn

                            you need a new sport

                            you should stick to quidditch or chinese cheakers

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Downhill Runner
                              The Broncos may very well have something completely different in mind, which could include trading the pick up or down.

                              Since I have no way of knowing what they might be thinking, I simply take their moves as an indication.

                              One of the rules of the Draft is that you don't draft for need and force the issue.

                              We did that with Ashley Lelie, and passed on Ed Reed.

                              We did that with D.J Williams, and passed on Stephen Jackson.

                              To me, the DT situation is the same. We would be reaching for a player in a poor class, which almost never works out.

                              But if the Broncos stay at No. 21, they will still be able to get a very good player,
                              DE Anthony Spncer, FS Michael Griffen and OG Ben Grubbs are all players on the rise that are very likely to be at No. 21, and would fill a need for us, so it won't be a case of having to Draft a reach.

                              If we stay there, we will have a chance to get a very good player at No. 21, don't worry.
                              I would rather have DJ Williams than Stephen Jackson anyways. Williams was a good selection in my opinion. I have no idea why you people bash our LB corps.
                              Last edited by SteelBronco; 03-22-2007, 07:56 PM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X