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  • #31
    Originally posted by jdhdiggs
    As I've said, he looks like a re-incarnation of Peter Warrick. To me, I would much rather upgrade our DT from whoever is left to either Branch or Okoye. I mean What is going to help the team more:

    Moving From Veal to Okoye/Branch
    Moving from Lang to Anderson/Moss/Spencer
    Moving from WR2/3 Smith/Marshall to Ginn and KR Hixon/Morgan to Ginn?

    To me, Ginn isn't even close to the same level of upgrade as fixing our D-Line with a top prospect. If DT and DE are picked heavily in front of us, that means Ginn will fall to us. If that's the case, I have no problem picking him up, but giving up a shot at Solei/Weddle/Wendling in the 2nd/3rd rounds to trade up and pick up Ginn? Hell no!
    Nice! I totally agree. Dont give up picks for Ginn! There are people talking about giving everything up for CJ, and even then i say no as do alot of people! I mean its fun to discuss options when it comes to CJ, but for Ginn!?!?! Uh no....... the Broncos NEED to get help at DE/DT, S, LB...Not WR for at least a couple picks!

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    • #32
      Ginn good for Broncos

      If i remember hearing right there is a pretty good bust percentage for DL in the first round i'm not sure if it is the same for wr/return specialist not only was our DL bad but so was our field position which Ginn will really help. Right now i don't think the Broncos have a proven slot receiver to allow Jay Cutler to fully utilize his arm strength Ginn provides all that.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by jdhdiggs
        Nice highlights, unfortunately he looks like Peter Warrick version 2.0 to me....

        Add this to my list of concerns about Ginn.

        Look: NOBODY is arguing that Ginn isn't lighting-fast, because he is. I won't label him "injury-prone", because he's not...but the foot injury IS lingering (which foot injuries have a tendency to do.) And while I'll happily admit he would be a boost to the return games, I have a feeling that he won't pan out as a great WR (speed isn't the be-all and end-all for NFL WRs...for example, Eddie Mac.)

        Of course, I could very well be wrong about Ginn. Maybe he works on his route-running, and becomes the next Santana Moss. But (IMO), he's a bit of a crap-shoot, and Denver would be better served drafting in other areas.

        (And just a note: I DO see why people would want to draft him. Too many ???'s for my taste, however.)
        "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -Yogi Berra

        "All models are wrong, but some are useful."

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Broncos2024
          If i remember hearing right there is a pretty good bust percentage for DL in the first round i'm not sure if it is the same for wr/return specialist not only was our DL bad but so was our field position which Ginn will really help. Right now i don't think the Broncos have a proven slot receiver to allow Jay Cutler to fully utilize his arm strength Ginn provides all that.
          WR's are the third highest likelihood of busting (after QB and RB). DE was 6th (out of 9). DT's bust % were right after WR. Check out:
          http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...5&sportCat=nfl

          DT's/DE's have better chances of becoming pro-bowlers as well with 40% of first round DT's becoming pro-bowlers
          Last edited by jdhdiggs; 04-26-2007, 12:54 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by CSU_stat
            Add this to my list of concerns about Ginn.

            Look: NOBODY is arguing that Ginn isn't lighting-fast, because he is. I won't label him "injury-prone", because he's not...but the foot injury IS lingering (which foot injuries have a tendency to do.) And while I'll happily admit he would be a boost to the return games, I have a feeling that he won't pan out as a great WR (speed isn't the be-all and end-all for NFL WRs...for example, Eddie Mac.)

            Of course, I could very well be wrong about Ginn. Maybe he works on his route-running, and becomes the next Santana Moss. But (IMO), he's a bit of a crap-shoot, and Denver would be better served drafting in other areas.

            (And just a note: I DO see why people would want to draft him. Too many ???'s for my taste, however.)
            Again...i agree. He has talent, but so does Johnnie Lee Higgins! I am sure Johhnie can help Cutler utilize his slot receiver arm strength (whatever the hell that means!) and the broncos still manage to adress the glaring holes left on D-line, LB, S!
            BTW if i had to choose i would rather the Broncos get a BUST at DE/DT than a bust at KR/WR.
            At least they adressed the glaring need and TRIED to get it solved.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by jdhdiggs
              WR's are the third highest likelihood of busting (after QB and RB). DE was 6th (out of 9). Check out:
              http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...5&sportCat=nfl
              interesting
              Notice all the "safe" picks are guys the Broncos NEED!!!!!!
              Safe First Rounders This Year, Based on Study
              Joe Thomas, OT, Wisconsin -- Only 1/3 of OL end up busts. Thomas won't be one of them.
              Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson -- An identical bust percentage for DEs and Adams is the best of the bunch.
              Adam Carriker, DE, Nebraska -- A great 3-4 scheme fit, and not far behind Adams after a great Senior Bowl week.
              LaRon Landry, S, LSU -- The safest position on the board.
              Brandon Merriweather, S, Miami -- Miami safeties also have done well.
              Patrick Willis, LB, Mississippi -- Our second-safest position, plus P-Willie was ultra-productive with all the measurables.
              Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville -- Can you say upside? Okoye is only 19 and reminds some of Tommie Harris.

              Teams with the Most Busts
              Bears -- 8
              Lions -- 8
              Eagles -- 8
              49ers -- 7
              Broncos -- 7 Lets stop this right here......
              Cardinals -- 6
              Patriots -- 6
              Rams -- 6
              Redskins -- 6

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              • #37
                Originally posted by socalorado1
                Again...i agree. He has talent, but so does Johnnie Lee Higgins! I am sure Johhnie can help Cutler utilize his slot receiver arm strength (whatever the hell that means!) and the broncos still manage to adress the glaring holes left on D-line, LB, S!
                BTW if i had to choose i would rather the Broncos get a BUST at DE/DT than a bust at KR/WR.
                At least they adressed the glaring need and TRIED to get it solved.

                Not just D-line, either, although that's probably the most immediate weakness for Denver.

                Lynch isn't getting any younger, and both Ferguson and Brandon are coming off of injuries. Drafting a safety isn't a bad pick.

                Lepsis isn't getting any younger, either. Left Tackle is a position that should be addressed earlier rather than later.

                Al Wilson is gone, and while I don't think that leaves a GLARING hole at LB, it is a position that could be strengthened.

                Conversely, Walker, Marshall, and Scheffler are all on the young side (at the very least!), and Graham isn't exactly ancient. IMO, that's a pretty good receiving corp, and not one that needs to be addressed immediately.
                "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -Yogi Berra

                "All models are wrong, but some are useful."

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by jdhdiggs
                  WR's are the third highest likelihood of busting (after QB and RB). DE was 6th (out of 9). DT's bust % were right after WR. Check out:
                  http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...5&sportCat=nfl

                  DT's/DE's have better chances of becoming pro-bowlers as well with 40% of first round DT's becoming pro-bowlers
                  Exactly but either people just don't realize this or choose to ignore it.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by CSU_stat
                    Not just D-line, either, although that's probably the most immediate weakness for Denver.

                    Lynch isn't getting any younger, and both Ferguson and Brandon are coming off of injuries. Drafting a safety isn't a bad pick.

                    Lepsis isn't getting any younger, either. Left Tackle is a position that should be addressed earlier rather than later.

                    Al Wilson is gone, and while I don't think that leaves a GLARING hole at LB, it is a position that could be strengthened.

                    Conversely, Walker, Marshall, and Scheffler are all on the young side (at the very least!), and Graham isn't exactly ancient. IMO, that's a pretty good receiving corp, and not one that needs to be addressed immediately.
                    On the money! I hear ya! To me it just isnt good value and with all the crazy talk going on around here, i hope the broncos dont go and do something so stupid that it costs the team 2nd and 3rd round picks.
                    I would love to see Weddle or Griffin or Doug Free or Mike Otto or even H.B. Blades in a Bronco uniform and sure, Steve Smith or Higgins would be great too!

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                    • #40
                      I agree with the camp that would argue:
                      The easiest way to improve a defense is to not field an offense that goes 3 & out.

                      However, I think Ginn wouldn't help in that department.
                      sigpic

                      "Sauced."- Broshown Broenbro

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by fullcollapse
                        I agree with the camp that would argue:
                        The easiest way to improve a defense is to not field an offense that goes 3 & out.

                        However, I think Ginn wouldn't help in that department.

                        I'm in this camp as well. And I, too, fell the Ginn won't help as much on offense. Seems like, after the Kerney sweepstakes didn't pan out, Shanahan went full-tilt on offense, signing Henry and Graham. And with Bate on board, I see Denver going whatever they need to give Bate's whatever tools he needs.

                        My only nagging thought: I would like to see Ginn back for returns. But the first round is not the place to draft a returner...
                        "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -Yogi Berra

                        "All models are wrong, but some are useful."

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Definately do not give up any picks for Ginn! If he's there at 21 possibly, but he would only return kicks his rookie year and would have little or no impact as a rookie WR. If you're looking for an every down impact player, let's look elsewhere. This draft is too loaded with wide receivers.

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                          • #43
                            Here is my stance as of right now on drafting Ginn.

                            Looking at drafting him at number 21, I wouldnt mind it too much, because we dont give up a whole lot to get him........actually we give up nothing at all.


                            If we move all the way up to number 10 AND THEN draft him, i will be seriously pissed. Because that means we trade 2 or 3 picks that would have addressed the needs we have as of right now that we could have at pick 21.

                            at 21, we can still FILL those needs with good talent in earlier rounds

                            at 10, its mainly all hope that we can pick up talent in later rounds.

                            Ginn isnt worth neglecting needs people........moving up to 10 would be just plain stupid

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