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  • topscribe
    replied
    Originally posted by Cugel
    That's easily the dumbest thing Lincione has written yet!
    You sure about that?

    I have seen some duuuuuuumb things from that guy.

    -----

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  • Cugel
    replied
    That's easily the dumbest thing Lincione has written yet!

    I've criticized Shanahan's drafting before, but certainly NOT this year, because it was stone brilliant! The Broncos exceeded all reasonable expectations.

    Will it pan out? Who knows?

    But one thing is certain, Lincione is hopelessly off target with his criticisms.

    We should have drafted Brady Quinn the year after using a #1 pick on Cutler? What on earth for? That's the stupidest thing I've seen any sportswriter say in years! If some idiot on these boards said such a thing he'd be ripped to shreds with good reason! Even the total NOOBs know better than that!

    Can you imagine the laughter and head scratching from Mel Kiper on down, wondering if Shanahan was channeling his inner Rasta?

    Then there's lauding the Patriots for getting a 1 year rental on Randy Moss, while dissing the Broncos for their "character concerns."

    This sort of hypocrisy passes for standard reporting in the press so I shouldn't be surprised. But for the Pats to pay Moss over $10 million guaranteed $ this year and lose him to FA next year doesn't make a lot of sense to me -- unless the Pats are gambling Moss will put them over the top and get them another SB this year. That might happen, but there's no guarantee. And meanwhile they lose a 4th round pick and $10 million. Oh, well, perhaps it'll work out.

    But, you can't rip the Broncos in one breath and then praise the Pats for taking on Randy the meter-maid crusher.

    Then to say that none of the draft picks would help the team is even dumber if that's possible!

    No rookie is expected to come in immediately and be a star, but these picks helped Denver's team for at least the next 4 years. Now DL will be a strength instead of a weakness.

    And that's all you can ask. As for having only 4 picks instead of 7, that was deliberate, which Lincone should have known if he pays attention to Ted Sundquist (which is his job by the way). Sundquist said on this site they only had space for 4 picks on the 53 man roster and didn't expect the player they targeted in the 6th or 7th round to make the team!

    Leave a comment:


  • JRWIZ
    replied
    Originally posted by GuitarJ
    Isnt that what the draft really is?

    "Shrugs"









    Edit- Good luck to your daughter and may she be blessed with 100% health

    Many folks look at the draft as a crap shoot. If your scouts are worth a ding dong and if you chose to listen to a great GM (which we do not have) most first day choice should be keepers if not starters with in a year.

    If you can't not pick one of the top 3 or 4 players at the position you are looking at on day one. Most of the time everyone has these players rated pretty much the same from the talking heads to the fans.

    At worst case the first day picks are all the top 100 players in the pool. Yes I know that their are duds and some are injury cases taht never fulfill their potential Courtney Brown comes to mind. But even chronic injury folks should be weeded out by the scouts.
    If a professional scout can't get it correct tis time for the head cheese to can their butts.

    Now I beleive that the scouts are getting it correct since every trade we have made and most UDFA that come tot the team seem to do well. It just looks to alot of folks that Mikey really reaches for talent in the past.

    Maybe this year with Bates putting the pressure on after all in teh past it was patterson and coyer doing the talking and the prior to Hemeidinger coming to town it was Kubiack Did Mikey really listen to them? or decide on his own?

    Prior to 2006 his record stunk at but was mediocre.

    Maybe getting professionals in here that he believed had more to bring to the table other than being yes men, maybe that made teh difference.

    The time will tell on these to draft classes.

    I really hope I ma wrong about them but I play the odds and that means many will not be here in two years.

    Cutler he will be around for at least 4 years, even IF he is not all that Mikey thought him to be. The rest could be TC fodder this year or next.

    Again I hope I'm wrong.

    Leave a comment:


  • GuitarJ
    replied
    Originally posted by JRWIZ
    Mikey is a gambler and sometimes it works and sometimes it does not.
    Isnt that what the draft really is?

    "Shrugs"









    Edit- Good luck to your daughter and may she be blessed with 100% health
    Last edited by GuitarJ; 05-02-2007, 12:16 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • JRWIZ
    replied
    Originally posted by TXBRONC
    Yes he's writer for the Rocky Mountain News.
    Probably not on Mikey's "A" invitation list.

    But then he just might be correct.

    Mikey is a gambler and sometimes it works and sometimes it does not.

    I'm not in DEN and do not see his columns much so do not know how close he is to the facts or if he is just a hate monger.

    I merely put out what I have tripped across, by NO MEANS did I go looking for it. I have way to much other things to do.

    Speaking of which I'll be out of town again for a few days as my daughter qualified in 5 events for the state track meet in Waco this weekend. Hopefully she will be well enough to compete she came down with a massive cold on Monday.

    Leave a comment:


  • JRWIZ
    replied
    Originally posted by Javalon
    Come on, JR, all you're doing is focusing on the negative. You know there is always a critic but look at the overall reviews:

    We scoured the Net for grades across many top NFL sites. Which teams excelled?


    Code:
    CBSSportsline.com's	***	B
    Pete Prisco	***
    	
    FoxSports.com's	***	D
    John Czarnecki	***
    	
    ESPN.com's	***	B-
    Mel Kiper Jr.	***
    	
    NBCSports.com's	***	B-
    Tom Curran	***
    	
    SI.com's   	***	D-
    Paul Zimmerman	***
    	
    ESPN.com's	***	B
    SportsNation	***
    	
    SportingNews.com's	***	A-
    War Room Scouts	***
    	
    USAToday.com's	***	C
    Tom Weir  	***
    	
    Yahoo.com's	***	B-
    Charles Robinson	***

    The Broncos' draft is one of the more debatable ones simply because of the "character issues" people keep blabbing about. People aren't really questioning the talent as much as they are the risk factor. Zimmerman thinks we took too big a risk on character but never even mentioned the guys' talent, which is generally not in question.

    Take away the "character issues" and people would almost universally be acclaiming our draft. As it is, we know there's an element of risk to a couple of our picks. The negative people will be negative about the possibilities, and vice versa for the positive ones. But overall the "analysts" give us pretty good marks despite the risks.

    And in the end, none of the opinions matter. All that matters is what happens over the next few years on the field.

    Thanks for the other grades I had not had a chance to see them while not all on the moon. Your correct, I have been trying to do is bring some balance to the zealots that can never see the potential DOWNSIDE to Mikey's drafting.

    Mainly because there is hype again in the players that just were drafted or traded for. They do not notice that in 2 or 3 years that the picks disappear from the team and from the league into vapor trails.

    Time will tell how they turn out I for one hope this draft class and last years will indeed be Mikey's turning the corner of some HUGE poor history in the past drafts.

    I hope that this year quality is indeed the factor to make these guys work. In years past it has been quantity.

    There is a need for improvement hopefully Bates and the newbies will make that happen. Since 2003 this team while ranked in defensive stats have sucked when it counted. In the playoffs!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • TXBRONC
    replied
    Originally posted by jcdavey
    is that guy one of your local writers? it sounds like jake plummers brother wrote that, damn.

    Yes he's writer for the Rocky Mountain News.

    Leave a comment:


  • jcdavey
    replied
    is that guy one of your local writers? it sounds like jake plummers brother wrote that, damn.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncos_mtnman
    replied
    Originally posted by Javalon
    Come on, JR, all you're doing is focusing on the negative. You know there is always a critic but look at the overall reviews:

    We scoured the Net for grades across many top NFL sites. Which teams excelled?


    Code:
    CBSSportsline.com's	***	B
    Pete Prisco	***
    	
    FoxSports.com's	***	D
    John Czarnecki	***
    	
    ESPN.com's	***	B-
    Mel Kiper Jr.	***
    	
    NBCSports.com's	***	B-
    Tom Curran	***
    	
    SI.com's   	***	D-
    Paul Zimmerman	***
    	
    ESPN.com's	***	B
    SportsNation	***
    	
    SportingNews.com's	***	A-
    War Room Scouts	***
    	
    USAToday.com's	***	C
    Tom Weir  	***
    	
    Yahoo.com's	***	B-
    Charles Robinson	***

    The Broncos' draft is one of the more debatable ones simply because of the "character issues" people keep blabbing about. People aren't really questioning the talent as much as they are the risk factor. Zimmerman thinks we took too big a risk on character but never even mentioned the guys' talent, which is generally not in question.

    Take away the "character issues" and people would almost universally be acclaiming our draft. As it is, we know there's an element of risk to a couple of our picks. The negative people will be negative about the possibilities, and vice versa for the positive ones. But overall the "analysts" give us pretty good marks despite the risks.

    And in the end, none of the opinions matter. All that matters is what happens over the next few years on the field.
    PWNED!!

    Leave a comment:


  • TXBRONC
    replied
    Originally posted by Javalon
    Nope, you're right about that. But that's why it was a calculated risk. I was referring to how the only real critique out there concerning the Broncos' draft is due to character issues, not talent.

    If the guys stay clean then we likely killed in this draft. If the problems recur then we blew it. But nobody can see the future and how this will all play out so we get a wide range of draft grades. No big whoop.
    Exactly, why get upset about what this guy said. You listed in another thread several other pundits that gave us very good grades. If I remember correctly, most of them were B/B- with one A- and one C.

    Leave a comment:


  • Javalon
    replied
    Originally posted by TXBRONC
    Take away the character issues especially with Thomas and I don't think Shanahan would had a chance to draft him.

    We had the same thing happen last year as well.
    Nope, you're right about that. But that's why it was a calculated risk. I was referring to how the only real critique out there concerning the Broncos' draft is due to character issues, not talent.

    If the guys stay clean then we likely killed in this draft. If the problems recur then we blew it. But nobody can see the future and how this will all play out so we get a wide range of draft grades. No big whoop.

    Leave a comment:


  • TXBRONC
    replied
    Originally posted by Javalon
    Come on, JR, all you're doing is focusing on the negative. You know there is always a critic but look at the overall reviews:

    We scoured the Net for grades across many top NFL sites. Which teams excelled?


    Code:
    CBSSportsline.com's	***	B
    Pete Prisco	***
    	
    FoxSports.com's	***	D
    John Czarnecki	***
    	
    ESPN.com's	***	B-
    Mel Kiper Jr.	***
    	
    NBCSports.com's	***	B-
    Tom Curran	***
    	
    SI.com's   	***	D-
    Paul Zimmerman	***
    	
    ESPN.com's	***	B
    SportsNation	***
    	
    SportingNews.com's	***	A-
    War Room Scouts	***
    	
    USAToday.com's	***	C
    Tom Weir  	***
    	
    Yahoo.com's	***	B-
    Charles Robinson	***

    The Broncos' draft is one of the more debatable ones simply because of the "character issues" people keep blabbing about. People aren't really questioning the talent as much as they are the risk factor. Zimmerman thinks we took too big a risk on character but never even mentioned the guys' talent, which is generally not in question.

    Take away the "character issues" and people would almost universally be acclaiming our draft. As it is, we know there's an element of risk to a couple of our picks. The negative people will be negative about the possibilities, and vice versa for the positive ones. But overall the "analysts" give us pretty good marks despite the risks.

    And in the end, none of the opinions matter. All that matters is what happens over the next few years on the field.
    Take away the character issues especially with Thomas and I don't think Shanahan would had a chance to draft him.

    We had the same thing happen last year as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • pzmire
    replied
    [QUOTE=topscribe].


    (I made a quick check. If this has been posted elsewhere, please let me know.)


    Lincicome: Broncos' draft won't fix their many woes

    April 29, 2007
    Irrelevance could well be the eventual result of the Broncos taking their slurp at the weekend's talent trough, adding what they need while changing nothing.

    The Broncos were not going to get well at the draft, certainly not by adding question marks on the defensive line, taking on the University of Florida's misbehavers rather than assuming failures from Cleveland.

    My re-inspection of the roster reveals that defensive tackle Gerard Warren is indeed still a Bronco, something that will be taken on faith until he plays better, and adding Gators Jarvis Moss and Marcus Thomas and Texas' Tim Crowder only crowds the general patchiness of an unreliable defensive line.

    Considering that the Broncos needed to trade up four spots and give away two picks for the uncertainty of Moss and had a whole night to sleep on the risk that is Thomas, before dismissing three draft choices to get him, it must be assumed that some thought has been given to the venture.

    Essentially, then, the Broncos gave away five choices for two maybes, one of whom, Thomas, had more red flags than a May Day parade.

    Still, by the time the Broncos had picked, there had been four other defensive linemen chosen, while the same number went before Crowder and another 13 before Thomas.

    What this means is, the Broncos were scraping all sides of the barrel, but mostly the middle and the bottom.

    In the meantime, the saga of Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn played out like some sort of shotgun wedding where the groom kept shifting his feet, waiting for a bride who was late.

    Given the chance at Quinn, the Broncos passed, along with 21 others, because Jay Cutler is the quarterback of the future. Still, wouldn't it have been interesting to watch Cutler squirm as Jake Plummer did when the Broncos tossed the pebble in the pond that became a lost season by picking a QB?

    And, considering that all those defensive linemen were still to be summoned later, wouldn't it have been worth creating the kind of quarterback competition that Mike Shanahan so loudly endorsed last year?

    Or, to suggest another road not taken, there was another Moss to be had, Randy Moss, available for pocket change, who is now a Patriot instead of a Raider. This is not necessarily good for the Broncos in any case, because Moss was a sulking liability each time I saw the Broncos play the Raiders.

    It was left then for other teams to make noise, such as could be had in a draft where the overwhelming Heisman Trophy winner, Troy Smith of Ohio State, was the 174th player taken and the nearly anonymous JaMarcus Russell (a Heisman nobody)was deemed the prize of prizes.

    The Broncos are in such flux that nothing out of this draft encourages enthusiasm. This is mostly tuck pointing and reroofing, and not with first-rate supplies.

    Jarvis Moss is, to echo the positives, a speedy pass rusher, if a bit skinny and a bit raw. He did not start until last season in college, so it is a stretch to assume he will start his first season as a pro. Crowder is similarly a bit light but did start 47 straight games for Texas, a worthy line on his résumé.

    As for Thomas, possibly the most talented and certainly the largest of them all, well, for all the chatter about character and personal conduct, he could have been on the NFL poster of commissioner Roger Goodell pointing his finger, saying, "We do not want you."

    Thomas and Moss both had disciplinary issues in Gainesville, confessed as pot and hanging out with the wrong crowd.

    Shanahan sees what he wants to see in the record of Thomas, considering he was kicked off his college team not a legal matter, rather imagining the 300-pound Thomas getting a legal push in the middle of the line.

    After all of this, the Broncos are still in the hands of a semirookie quarterback, the usual apprenticeship being more than the five games that Cutler played (two of which he won). Unless Cutler is something between John Elway and Dan Marino, the learning curve has no place to rest.

    Figure in the new running back, the juggled linebacking, the thin receiving, the aging safeties, the uncertain offensive line, but mostly the inevitable shakiness of Cutler, and the Broncos could have had the first 10 picks in the draft without fixing everything that is wrong.

    Until Cutler is better seasoned, the defense is of a consistent competence and the Broncos fall into a more painless schedule, good intentions will have to do.





    You must be afflicted with the same brain disease that Dan (BIG BUCKS / NO CLUE) Snyder has. Just add high priced "Talent" - Mix it all together - and BEHOLD a championship team. It takes chemistry and playuers who undertand the team concept - Not just $$$$$$$$$$

    Leave a comment:


  • Javalon
    replied
    Originally posted by JRWIZ
    BRONCOS -- D-
    They traded up and even gave away a No. 3 next year to get DT Marcus Thomas, and this is a guy who ... let's see, I've used "has character issues" already. How about, "carries heavy baggage?" Kicked off his Florida team not once, but twice -- a problem child to be sure. Mike Shanahan says that he has checked him out thoroughly and he feels that in the right environment he'll be just fine. Seems that I heard exactly the same thing when he drafted Maurice Clarett in the third round. Yeah, Thomas can play all right, and so can speed rusher Jarvis Moss, the No. 1 draft. He was only suspended once. Hardly even worth mentioning.





    Perhaps lincome maybe on to something.
    Come on, JR, all you're doing is focusing on the negative. You know there is always a critic but look at the overall reviews:

    We scoured the Net for grades across many top NFL sites. Which teams excelled?


    Code:
    CBSSportsline.com's	***	B
    Pete Prisco	***
    	
    FoxSports.com's	***	D
    John Czarnecki	***
    	
    ESPN.com's	***	B-
    Mel Kiper Jr.	***
    	
    NBCSports.com's	***	B-
    Tom Curran	***
    	
    SI.com's   	***	D-
    Paul Zimmerman	***
    	
    ESPN.com's	***	B
    SportsNation	***
    	
    SportingNews.com's	***	A-
    War Room Scouts	***
    	
    USAToday.com's	***	C
    Tom Weir  	***
    	
    Yahoo.com's	***	B-
    Charles Robinson	***

    The Broncos' draft is one of the more debatable ones simply because of the "character issues" people keep blabbing about. People aren't really questioning the talent as much as they are the risk factor. Zimmerman thinks we took too big a risk on character but never even mentioned the guys' talent, which is generally not in question.

    Take away the "character issues" and people would almost universally be acclaiming our draft. As it is, we know there's an element of risk to a couple of our picks. The negative people will be negative about the possibilities, and vice versa for the positive ones. But overall the "analysts" give us pretty good marks despite the risks.

    And in the end, none of the opinions matter. All that matters is what happens over the next few years on the field.

    Leave a comment:


  • GuitarJ
    replied
    Originally posted by topscribe
    I have found a lot of reasons to agree with you, JR. I agree with you here, too.

    Lincicome is definitely on something.







    Oh wait . . .



    -----
    You must spread some Contributor Status around before giving it to topscribe again.

    Leave a comment:

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