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John Clayton's: Big ?'s for AFC Teams

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  • #16
    Originally posted by DenBronx
    I think it was Shanahan's offensive mind that was pushing for CJ the whole time.

    Lucky Bates talked some sense into him.
    Shanahan actually pulled off the CJ deal, it's the Lions that backed out!

    And I agree that's a good thing! I don't care if CJ is the next Jerry Rice, the Broncos needed DL, not WRs. You can't ignore the gaping hole on the DL just because a great WR is available!

    Now if that WR is available at your draft position, then maybe you have to take him because he's the best available talent, but NOT trade up to #2, meanwhile giving up your entire draft for 2007 and most of 2008 to do it!

    That would be a nightmare for the Broncos! NO player is worth that!

    That would have meant NO chance of a SB until maybe 2009 or 2010! Because you're surely NOT going to win a championship if you have major weaknesses on your DL.

    You just have to ask yourself: would you trade the #1, #2, and #3 this year, plus the #1 next year for a 25 year old Rodney Harrison? He might be the best WR in football, but would you make that trade? NO!
    sigpic

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    • #17
      I assume you meant Marvin Harrison.

      But other than that I agree completely. 6-10 teams draft best athlete; they have holes everywhere and can use him immediately. 10-6 teams fill their few holes so they can make the Big Dance before their vets retire.
      SIGN RANDALL GODFREY FOR SLB AND BACKUP MLB NOW!!!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by silkamilkamonic
        "Shanahan wants more big plays coming from his defense."

        I find it ironic that Clayton would say Shanahan wants more big plays out of the defense when it was the offense last year who was almost anemic.
        Makes perfect sense, silk

        The O is being led by a 5game rookie QB, 1 very good WR, a questionable Oline and a new RB.
        WHERE TO START?

        At least with the D, they already had a good nucleus, with a few holes.

        Besides, if you keep the other team from running up the score, you'll give the O a chance to win the game.

        *kinda like last year*
        "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
        tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
        men."

        -- Samuel Adams

        sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Cugel
          Shanahan actually pulled off the CJ deal, it's the Lions that backed out!

          And I agree that's a good thing! I don't care if CJ is the next Jerry Rice, the Broncos needed DL, not WRs. You can't ignore the gaping hole on the DL just because a great WR is available!

          Now if that WR is available at your draft position, then maybe you have to take him because he's the best available talent, but NOT trade up to #2, meanwhile giving up your entire draft for 2007 and most of 2008 to do it!

          That would be a nightmare for the Broncos! NO player is worth that!

          That would have meant NO chance of a SB until maybe 2009 or 2010! Because you're surely NOT going to win a championship if you have major weaknesses on your DL.

          You just have to ask yourself: would you trade the #1, #2, and #3 this year, plus the #1 next year for a 25 year old Rodney Harrison? He might be the best WR in football, but would you make that trade? NO!
          Rodney Harrison?

          Isn't he a broken down safety for the Patriots?

          Anyways, Im glad Bates is in town. I was sick and tired of that "Bend but don't break, but then sorta break defense" how about, "Don't bend, don't break defense" that sounds much better to me.

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          • #20
            Our line isn't really questionable.

            Originally posted by rcsodak
            Makes perfect sense, silk

            The O is being led by a 5game rookie QB, 1 very good WR, a questionable Oline and a new RB.
            WHERE TO START?

            At least with the D, they already had a good nucleus, with a few holes.

            Besides, if you keep the other team from running up the score, you'll give the O a chance to win the game.

            *kinda like last year*
            The only question is whether Holland, a talented second year player or a talented third year player will be at RG. Consensus seems to favor the last. Pears will be back at his natural position, Nalen will still be at center, Hamilton will still be a great run blocker and Lepsis should be healthy at LT. Meadows can back either tackle (unless we think Harris is already good enough to back Lepsis), Hamilton back Nalen and Holland back RG, unless Myers beats him out and winds up backing both guards the way Meadows does the tackles.

            Our HB is "new" to us, but a versatile journeyman who had 1200 yards in 14 games last year running for a team that hasn't had a good line since the '70s (and I was BORN in Houston; trust me on that last part). Perhaps as importantly, he can pick up a blitz better than both Bells combined. We added a solid run blocking receiver in Graham and the #3 WR from the decades best offense. How good are Rod, Cutler and Marshall? Well, Cutler and Marshall are better than they were this time last year, and Rod's better than he's been since 2003 (he went to the Pro Bowl in 2005). If we go all the way it'll be with the D riding the offense, not the other way around, and that's not even because I think the D is all that bad. The offense has a lot of proven talent though and will be good; if it gels it'll be lethal.
            SIGN RANDALL GODFREY FOR SLB AND BACKUP MLB NOW!!!

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            • #21
              My question will be.
              How good will Bailey really be in bump and run?
              Last year he played off a lot and had his best season, why? because it gave him a chance to read the play and react to it. In bump and run in the past he was not so effective, he was getting physically beaten by larger receivers and his tackle numbers were not so good. Is that a result of the scheme or just the fact he was adapting to a new team and defense?
              Hopefully they will figure this out in camp and work to his strengths in the season, as I would hate to see Bates go in with the same hard headed mentality as Coyer and refusing to change when something isn't working.
              "On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit'. And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high."
              Ayrton Senna..

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              • #22
                Originally posted by y2cragie
                My question will be.
                How good will Bailey really be in bump and run?
                Last year he played off a lot and had his best season, why? because it gave him a chance to read the play and react to it. In bump and run in the past he was not so effective, he was getting physically beaten by larger receivers and his tackle numbers were not so good. Is that a result of the scheme or just the fact he was adapting to a new team and defense?
                Hopefully they will figure this out in camp and work to his strengths in the season, as I would hate to see Bates go in with the same hard headed mentality as Coyer and refusing to change when something isn't working.

                Bailey's success in bump-and-run will have less to do with Bailey, and more to do with the defensive line. I do not doubt Bailey. Period. Last year didn't turn out as we had hoped, but us Denver fans were treated to one of the greatest performances by a DB EVER!

                Bailey can perform his role in bump-and-run. But the whole purpose of B-n-R is to throw off the routes of the WRs, leaving the QB with no immediate option. If the line can then get to the QB, it's all good. If the line fails to get to the QB, the receivers will then continue on their way (probably right past the DBs...there's a limit to how long ANY DB can cover in B-n-R) and result will be bad.
                "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -Yogi Berra

                "All models are wrong, but some are useful."

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Morambar
                  I assume you meant Marvin Harrison.
                  That's exactly what happens when you try to read e-mail, type a post and answer messages at the same time! Extract foot from mouth.

                  Brain just collapses into stupidity!
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by CSU_stat
                    Bailey's success in bump-and-run will have less to do with Bailey, and more to do with the defensive line. I do not doubt Bailey. Period. Last year didn't turn out as we had hoped, but us Denver fans were treated to one of the greatest performances by a DB EVER!

                    Bailey can perform his role in bump-and-run. But the whole purpose of B-n-R is to throw off the routes of the WRs, leaving the QB with no immediate option. If the line can then get to the QB, it's all good. If the line fails to get to the QB, the receivers will then continue on their way (probably right past the DBs...there's a limit to how long ANY DB can cover in B-n-R) and result will be bad.
                    I can't believe they will hand-cuff Bailey when he was one of the two best defenders in the NFL last year!

                    Playing off allowed him to read the QB and come off his WR to make plays. He may play some press-coverage, but anything that lets him read and react is good.

                    The DL will be improved, but remember that all those draft picks are ROOKIES right now. None of them is really ready to step in and be a star. Thomas might actually start because:

                    1. His only competition is Alvin McKinley. Let's just say that Alvin McKinley is not going to terrorize opposing OL.

                    2. He has great size and strength.

                    Whether this happens or not I don't know. Hard to say right now.
                    sigpic

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cugel
                      I can't believe they will hand-cuff Bailey when he was one of the two best defenders in the NFL last year!

                      Playing off allowed him to read the QB and come off his WR to make plays. He may play some press-coverage, but anything that lets him read and react is good.

                      The DL will be improved, but remember that all those draft picks are ROOKIES right now. None of them is really ready to step in and be a star. Thomas might actually start because:

                      1. His only competition is Alvin McKinley. Let's just say that Alvin McKinley is not going to terrorize opposing OL.

                      2. He has great size and strength.

                      Whether this happens or not I don't know. Hard to say right now.
                      Yeah, Bailey needs to be able to read and react, I hope they don't keep him in Man all the time...
                      Go Broncos, make me keep believing this year

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                      • #26
                        No worries.

                        Originally posted by Cugel
                        That's exactly what happens when you try to read e-mail, type a post and answer messages at the same time! Extract foot from mouth.

                        Brain just collapses into stupidity!
                        Try evaluating the whole NFL season while reading email, planning a shopping trip and have an old HS buddy decide to start chatting at you just as you get to the last team. But I knew whom ya meant.

                        For the record, guys, I'd be really surprised if Bates doesn't give Champ a pretty free reign. The guy led the League in picks last year and missed it by one the year before that (running one back the length of the field against NE in between). How much coaching does he need...?

                        I'm more concerned about whom we have to play behind Warren. I like Warren a lot; he WAS our interior line last year, but I don't expect him to anchor that line for three hours a week over four months. Not unless we want him limping to the finish line like he did last year, though at least now he'll have some help from Thomas and/or McKinley.
                        SIGN RANDALL GODFREY FOR SLB AND BACKUP MLB NOW!!!

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                        • #27
                          Very good question.

                          Originally posted by silkamilkamonic
                          I agree, but keep in mind that the Denver offense was amongs the NFL's worst with 3 and out drives.

                          I would be curious to where the offense/defense ranked in the NFL in 3 and outs.
                          Wish I knew; I don't remember seeing it tracked at NFL.com last year, and of course all they have up now is the playoff stats (if anyone knows how to dig up the full League regular season stats, please PM me, thanks). I do know I counted a LOT of three and outs by our D last year, often consecutively, but they never seemed to do any good.
                          SIGN RANDALL GODFREY FOR SLB AND BACKUP MLB NOW!!!

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                          • #28
                            Mr. Clayton!

                            Originally posted by DTownNative
                            http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...ohn&id=2860110

                            So how much different will this Broncos defense be?
                            Mike Shanahan surprised everyone by firing defensive coordinator Larry Coyer and replacing him with the talented Jim Bates. Equally surprising has been the overhaul in personnel. Middle linebacker Al Wilson was released. The Broncos also changed the focus of the defensive line, which had been filled with former Cleveland Browns. The Broncos drafted two linemen from Florida and acquired Dre' Bly to start at cornerback opposite Champ Bailey. Bates comes in with an aggressive style of coverage. He loves man-to-man and will have his corners in press coverage. Obviously, Shanahan wants more big plays coming from his defense.

                            ... I think Bates will have an immediate impact this season...
                            SOUNDS GOOD! Thanks for the LOVE ! John ! We will take it!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Morambar
                              The only question is whether Holland, a talented second year player or a talented third year player will be at RG. Consensus seems to favor the last. Pears will be back at his natural position, Nalen will still be at center, Hamilton will still be a great run blocker and Lepsis should be healthy at LT. Meadows can back either tackle (unless we think Harris is already good enough to back Lepsis), Hamilton back Nalen and Holland back RG, unless Myers beats him out and winds up backing both guards the way Meadows does the tackles.

                              Our HB is "new" to us, but a versatile journeyman who had 1200 yards in 14 games last year running for a team that hasn't had a good line since the '70s (and I was BORN in Houston; trust me on that last part). Perhaps as importantly, he can pick up a blitz better than both Bells combined. We added a solid run blocking receiver in Graham and the #3 WR from the decades best offense. How good are Rod, Cutler and Marshall? Well, Cutler and Marshall are better than they were this time last year, and Rod's better than he's been since 2003 (he went to the Pro Bowl in 2005). If we go all the way it'll be with the D riding the offense, not the other way around, and that's not even because I think the D is all that bad. The offense has a lot of proven talent though and will be good; if it gels it'll be lethal.
                              I'd say you're putting alot of promise into those linemen, without even knowing whether or not they'll make it past camp.
                              And lepsis? Who knows whether he'll be able to come back. Meadows too.
                              Pears wasn't stinky terrible last year, but he also wasn't a pro-bowler.
                              I'm glad YOU aren't worried about the Oline.

                              And I mentioned a 'new' rb, for a reason. He's going to have to learn Shanny's 1-cut and go style. He may run something close to it, but running behind a smaller, faster line than what he's been used to, WILL take some getting used to.
                              Stokely? Again, he's coming off a season-ending injury.
                              Cutler/Marshall are better than this time last year? Proof, please. Just saying it doesn't make it happen.
                              And I'm trying to figure out what you base your "Rod's better than he's been since 2003" statement.

                              I'm not trying to be a ney-sayer here, but your post would make any non-bronco fan yell HOMER.....

                              ...and this bronco fan is thinking about joining in.
                              "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
                              tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
                              men."

                              -- Samuel Adams

                              sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Morambar
                                Wish I knew; I don't remember seeing it tracked at NFL.com last year, and of course all they have up now is the playoff stats (if anyone knows how to dig up the full League regular season stats, please PM me, thanks). I do know I counted a LOT of three and outs by our D last year, often consecutively, but they never seemed to do any good.
                                Code:
                                DEFENSE      G Plys Yds/G  Y/P FD/G  3rdMd 3rdAtt  3rd % 4thMd 4t Att 4th % 
                                AFC:Denver 16 1020 326.4 5.1 18.2 81       221     36.7    5       14      35.7 
                                
                                Offense
                                AFC:Denver 16 973 309.4 5.1 17.8   78      211      37.0    7       13      53.8
                                All you have to do is select the season at the 1st page of Stats.
                                "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
                                tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
                                men."

                                -- Samuel Adams

                                sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

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