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If Darren McFadden has a disappointing year...?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Dream View Post
    It's not "because I said so" it's just because I am right.
    There's no way, besides serious injury (Broken leg, ACL tear) - that McFadden is slipping down past the first handful of picks. Adrian Peterson, even with injuries, still went top ten, and I'd consider McFadden to have just as much potential.

    Instead of debating me (like you both have) - debate the issue. Refute what I said, and if you can do that, maybe the arguments would be logical. When it comes to the NFL Draft, the elite prospects, even if they "disappoint" (which you still haven't defined, which would be central to your argument) they don't slip out of the first ten selections.

    The franchise players, like McFadden - go high. There's a difference between a regular first-round player, say a Jarvis Moss - and a Gaines Adams. A huge difference. Considering this is a relatively weak running back class pending the junior entrants, teams in need of a running back are going to try and get the cream of the crop as early as possible.

    So where I might argue the "hypothetical" injury part, I'm also backing up why McFadden won't fall based on the talent of this class, needs - and the truth about franchise players.

    What's your argument? Well, actually it was just a question.

    "If he disappointed at Arkansas, do you think he could slip?"

    Anything is possible, but it's extremely unlikely in the case of McFadden considering his talent level, the comparative talent in this class, his franchise elements and the fact that teams will be needing a running back.
    And there you go again. I didnt even read the rest of your post. You cant get past the fact that there are 32 GMs in the NFL. No one knows how uniform they are in this belief of yours or to what degree they share it. Its not about you pointing out that he is a big time talent. Again, the very fact that we're discussing him indicates theres a shared belief with this. If GMs have other needs or if another talented RB has a better year, they could surge ahead of McFadden and McFadden could slide. One year, you had 3 RBs go in the top 5 then this year, Adrian Peterson didnt go until 5-10. And there was only one other RB taken in the first round. And generally, Adrian Peterson is regarded as a bigger talent than Williams, Brown and Benson were. You can dispute this if you want but its enough to establish that it varies a lot from year to year in terms of where RBs go. He is no less of a talent if he is selected at 5-10 and its a very real possibility due to different variables...and thats even if he has a decent season. If Slaton goes for 2000 yards (and thats very possible) he might go ahead of McFadden. It all depends. And regarding the question you posed earlier about defining a disappointing year, thats a little bit difficult. If McFadden gets 1400 yards but against teams like Tennessee, Florida, LSU, etc his statline is 23 carries for 70 yards, then that might reduce someones comfort level. There are a lot of moving pieces. To say anything is absolute is going out on a limb. Even if youre correct and McFadden goes in the to 5, that doesnt mean others are wrong as, unlike you, no one is talking in absolutes...no one is saying, he will not go in the top 5. But again, the schwerdpunkt is not whether he is talented as much as its what 32 GMs will think. And once again, no one is saying McFadden wont go top 5. And if he does go in the top 5, that doesnt mean it was never possible for him to NOT go in the top five or slide some. Youre claiming to be right a) without really knowing the issue at hand and b) really have no way of proving even if it happens as you say. OK, if McFadden goes in the top 5, youre right...but so was practcially everyone else including those who think its possible for him to slide. Again, it all hinges on what GMs think.

    Here, Ill put it another way:

    Saying he COULD slide out of the top 5 does not = He wont go in the top 5

    This is what makes your chestpounding look ridiculous.

    BTW, I like how you are giving out nameless negs without even knowing what that means.
    Last edited by lex; 08-25-2007, 11:58 AM.

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    • #32
      I would LOVE to have McFadden

      However - the Broncos are going to draft Arizona State stud RB Ryan Torrain
      I owe CP's to: no one

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by lex View Post
        And there you go again. I didnt even read the rest of your post. You cant get past the fact that there are 32 GMs in the NFL. No one knows how uniform they are in this belief of yours or to what degree they share it. Its not about you pointing out that he is a big time talent. Again, the very fact that we're discussing him indicates theres a shared belief with this. If GMs have other needs or if another talented RB has a better year, they could surge ahead of McFadden and McFadden could slide. One year, you had 3 RBs go in the top 5 then this year, Adrian Peterson didnt go until 5-10. And there was only one other RB taken in the first round. And generally, Adrian Peterson is regarded as a bigger talent than Williams, Brown and Benson were. You can dispute this if you want but its enough to establish that it varies a lot from year to year in terms of where RBs go. He is no less of a talent if he is selected at 5-10 and its a very real possibility due to different variables...and thats even if he has a decent season. If Slaton goes for 2000 yards (and thats very possible) he might go ahead of McFadden. It all depends. And regarding the question you posed earlier about defining a disappointing year, thats a little bit difficult. If McFadden gets 1400 yards but against teams like Tennessee, Florida, LSU, etc his statline is 23 carries for 70 yards, then that might reduce someones comfort level. There are a lot of moving pieces. To say anything is absolute is going out on a limb. Even if youre correct and McFadden goes in the to 5, that doesnt mean others are wrong as, unlike you, no one is talking in absolutes...no one is saying, he will not go in the top 5. But again, the schwerdpunkt is not whether he is talented as much as its what 32 GMs will think. And once again, no one is saying McFadden wont go top 5. And if he does go in the top 5, that doesnt mean it was never possible for him to NOT go in the top five or slide some. Youre claiming to be right a) without really knowing the issue at hand and b) really have no way of proving even if it happens as you say. OK, if McFadden goes in the top 5, youre right...but so was practcially everyone else including those who think its possible for him to slide. Again, it all hinges on what GMs think.

        Here, Ill put it another way:

        Saying he COULD slide out of the top 5 does not = He wont go in the top 5

        This is what makes your chestpounding look ridiculous.

        BTW, I like how you are giving out nameless negs without even knowing what that means.
        You're not even making a logical argument, and I'm not even chest pounding. It's not worth even arguing anymore. You asked the question if he fell, should we take him? How far did you even expect him to fall? Why was it even a question worth asking? Denver isn't going to be picking in the top ten selections, so we have no shot at him. Regardless of what you like to think and your whole "Dependent on GM" spiel, McFadden isn't going anywhere.

        You're backtracking in your statements, and your arguments aren't constructive.

        McFadden is a top five talent, and he'll be drafted as such.

        Final story. That's all. I'm done here.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Dream View Post
          You're not even making a logical argument, and I'm not even chest pounding. It's not worth even arguing anymore. You asked the question if he fell, should we take him? How far did you even expect him to fall? Why was it even a question worth asking? Denver isn't going to be picking in the top ten selections, so we have no shot at him. Regardless of what you like to think and your whole "Dependent on GM" spiel, McFadden isn't going anywhere.

          You're backtracking in your statements, and your arguments aren't constructive.

          McFadden is a top five talent, and he'll be drafted as such.

          Final story. That's all. I'm done here.
          If you need clarification or dont understand something you should ask or avoid the thread altogether. Youre a quality poster but you really blew a tire here and your posturing and rhetoric is becoming increasingly sad. Save your dignity and back off. Stop being like this guy:

          Last edited by lex; 08-25-2007, 01:07 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by lex View Post
            If you need clarification or dont understand something you should ask or avoid the thread altogether. Youre a quality poster but you really blew a tire here and your posturing and rhetoric is becoming increasingly sad. Save your dignity and back off. Stop being like this guy:

            There was no clarification or understanding needed. I gave an answer the question deserved. Rather than attempting to debate my statements and facts through argument, your past several posts have been about debating me. That's fine, do as you please - but that just proves my point even more.

            You even said yourself that McFadden is more than likely going in the top five. You asked, if he slipped - would we take him? Secondly, you never defined was "disappointing" was to begin with. Thirdly, (it's interesting I got a negative CP from TXBronc on this one) is that it is actually you who is dealing with all the hypothetical questions regarding McFadden. Here's the deal: He was never slipping into the middle of round one, so it was a questionable question to ask in the first place. Last but not least, basically here's your argument. . .

            "He could fall if he does bad."

            Oh really? If I open a book it probably has pages to read. Quite obvious.

            The fact is, he isn't going to slip - which was my statement from the get go, and I told you why.

            Blew a tire? I don't think so. I think Gravedigger let me borrow his monster truck and I just ran over this thread.

            Booyah. (That's for WA!)

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Dream View Post
              There was no clarification or understanding needed. I gave an answer the question deserved. Rather than attempting to debate my statements and facts through argument, your past several posts have been about debating me. That's fine, do as you please - but that just proves my point even more.

              You even said yourself that McFadden is more than likely going in the top five. You asked, if he slipped - would we take him? Secondly, you never defined was "disappointing" was to begin with. Thirdly, (it's interesting I got a negative CP from TXBronc on this one) is that it is actually you who is dealing with all the hypothetical questions regarding McFadden. Here's the deal: He was never slipping into the middle of round one, so it was a questionable question to ask in the first place. Last but not least, basically here's your argument. . .

              "He could fall if he does bad."

              Oh really? If I open a book it probably has pages to read. Quite obvious.

              The fact is, he isn't going to slip - which was my statement from the get go, and I told you why.

              Blew a tire? I don't think so. I think Gravedigger let me borrow his monster truck and I just ran over this thread.

              Booyah. (That's for WA!)
              More of the same posturing and rhetoric. What a shock.

              Comment


              • #37
                I highly doubt McFadden would fall out of the first round, if not very early second round.

                And we wouldn't need him. We already have a quite deep RB slot as it is with Travis Henry, Cedric Cobbs, and my boy (Longhorn fan for life), Selvin Young. McFadden would be wanting too big of a contract anyways.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Max Power View Post
                  I could see us trading up for a stud safety or defensive tackle prospect.

                  If we were to take a RB (which we won't), I'd rather stay put and take Jonathan Stewart or Felix Jones as opposed to trading up for McFadden.

                  IMO, McFadden is not as good as AD or Reggie.
                  McFadden is better than AD and Reggie is not a running back, he is a WR that makes plays every now and then.

                  But no we do not need McFadden

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Broncos_ATX View Post
                    I highly doubt McFadden would fall out of the first round, if not very early second round.

                    And we wouldn't need him. We already have a quite deep RB slot as it is with Travis Henry, Cedric Cobbs, and my boy (Longhorn fan for life), Selvin Young. McFadden would be wanting too big of a contract anyways.
                    Henry has the potential to be a solid back if he can stay injury free, but McFadden could be a special back. I don't think it matters, as I think there is almost zero chance we will be in a position to draft him.
                    The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt

                    sigpic

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Combo1985 View Post
                      McFadden is better than AD and Reggie is not a running back, he is a WR that makes plays every now and then.

                      But no we do not need McFadden
                      Originally posted by Broncos_ATX View Post
                      I highly doubt McFadden would fall out of the first round, if not very early second round.

                      And we wouldn't need him. We already have a quite deep RB slot as it is with Travis Henry, Cedric Cobbs, and my boy (Longhorn fan for life), Selvin Young. McFadden would be wanting too big of a contract anyways.
                      Originally posted by tnedator View Post
                      Henry has the potential to be a solid back if he can stay injury free, but McFadden could be a special back. I don't think it matters, as I think there is almost zero chance we will be in a position to draft him.
                      Henry is coming up on 30. I know some say that he doesnt have a lot of wear and tear relatively speaking but he is still coming up on 30. Anyway, getting McFadden if he was available would fall in the category of accentuating your strength. There seems to be varying opinion on what it means to have a top tier RB in the Denver offense. Some seem to thinkg its excessive in that you neglect other areas of your team but there is another school of thought that says, take what you do well and be as good at it as you possibly can. Plus, with Cutler in the fold, having that upper tier back could cover up a lot of flaws on defense and such. If we are scoring 30 pts a game, run defense is less of a weakness in a lot of games. We might do OK without McFadden (or someone like him) but I think Im of the latter school of thought that says do what you do well the best you can...and then work out from there.

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                      • #41
                        I look at mcfadden alot like AD both are great players even with severe injury concerns he only dropped until 7 no way he falls out of the top three unless he enters the league in a wheel chair.

                        Anything is possible but its 99.9 percent chance that he goes top three.

                        Denver has about the same chance of not getting him. and IF Denver had the chance to get him i would trade the pick. and i would do it so we could start modeling our drafts like the Pats they have so many picks that it is sickening
                        Last edited by Broncosinindy; 08-25-2007, 05:48 PM.
                        The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
                        While he sits by his hearth at home.
                        Quickly finds when questioned by others .
                        That he knows nothing at all.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by tnedator View Post
                          Henry has the potential to be a solid back if he can stay injury free, but McFadden could be a special back. I don't think it matters, as I think there is almost zero chance we will be in a position to draft him.
                          The hypothetical that's being presented is what happens if does have stinker of a season? Whether or not is probably is at issue. Dream is delusional if thinks that a bad season wont hurt McFadden's status. Would McFadden fall far enough for Denver to get him, assuming we have good season then your estimation is on the money.

                          The only way we might have a shot at him is if gets injured.
                          John 11: 25-27

                          My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                          Thanks Snk16

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Broncosinindy View Post
                            I look at mcfadden alot like AD both are great players even with severe injury concerns he only dropped until 7 no way he falls out of the top three unless he enters the league in a wheel chair.

                            Anything is possible but its 99.9 percent chance that he goes top three.

                            Denver has about the same chance of not getting him. and IF Denver had the chance to get him i would trade the pick. and i would do it so we could start modeling our drafts like the Pats they have so many picks that it is sickening
                            I agree that he and Peterson are top caliber, however, there was no Steve Slaton in the draft last year. If Steve Slaton has a big year (and its possible if not likely) then he may win over some GMs. If Slaton stays healthy he might very well have 2000 yards and win the Heisman trophy. Slaton also plays in a weaker conference than McFadden though and its going to be easier for Slaton to impress scouts.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by TXBRONC View Post
                              Dream is delusional if thinks that a bad season wont hurt McFadden's status.
                              Yet again, I said define a bad season, which it seems you guys are incapable of doing. I guess I must sound delusional since the question posed with fit that category as well. Everyone needs to stop kidding themselves here, it's not going to happen. McFadden goes in the top five. Enough said.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by lex View Post
                                Slaton also plays in a weaker conference than McFadden though and its going to be easier for Slaton to impress scouts.
                                It's also going to be easy for scouts to realize that, "Slaton played in a weaker conference." and also factor that into their overall grading process as well.

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