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  • Archimedes Owl
    replied
    Originally posted by Loyalty
    So is the way you are refuting his argument. I agree with Crugel if the Patriots think the price tag is too high and want some fiscal discipline that is fine. The Nalen article is bunk. I bet the Patriots sign a few free agents this off-season. One could argue that we did the same thing to our guys (Trevor, Mike, and Jeb) or Ian Gold 2 years ago. However, the truth be told was they weren't willing to compromise with the Broncos or they would still be here. Vinateri wanted to be the highest paid kicker and the Patriots didn't want spend that much probably because they trying to give Richard Seymour a new contract (he will be a FA next year). I hear all these applauds for the Colts in signing Vinateri but why didn't they put their money to their own free agents E. James and D. Thorton? I guess they weren't loyal either. I am not a Patriot fan but to say that the Patriots aren't loyal to their players and no one wants to go there is ridiculous. What I see is the Patriots are loyal to their fans by not overspending on a kicker.
    Of course, any responsible team won't fall into the trap of spending big money on guys that don't deserve it, but when the time comes for our quality players to become free agents, we pay them what they are actually worth. The Patriots seem willing to pass on giving any of their deserving players good contracts. And that works fine if you can be successful enough in the draft and free agency to maintain that endeavor, but sooner or later, you will have some bad luck in the draft and free agency and you will wish that you had retained some of your talent.

    I agree with what you say regarding Vinateri. The guy is overrated. I mean, he's considered an elite kicker for making just a couple of kicks that happened to win Superbowls. Now, he is a good kicker, but the Patriots offered him a good kicker contract and he refused it, so I don't blame them for Vinateri, but overall, I consider them too quick to get rid of their best players unless their best players are willing to be undervalued.

    Now, as for my favorite Broncos team, I prefer them to be fiscally responsible, but I also prefer that they pay guys like Rod Smith and Al Wilson and our best players what their worth. This helps attract other guys to the team that would prefer to have a chance to earn the types of contracts that they deserve. People that sign with us know that they can earn some good money if they show results on the field and I think that's how it should be.

    Leave a comment:


  • Medford Bronco
    replied
    It is no shock that the Pats undervalue almost everyone. Evenutually it will catch up to them and blow up in their face.

    Last year they started to slip and their FA pickups were horrendous. Starks, Beisel and Chad Brown.

    I think Bellichek and Pioli have been reading their press clipping too much and should worry about keeping some of their good players.

    Leave a comment:


  • all DENVER
    replied
    Hahahah Patriots Are Gonna Suck!

    Leave a comment:


  • In-com-plete
    replied
    Originally posted by Loyalty
    So is the way you are refuting his argument. I agree with Crugel if the Patriots think the price tag is too high and want some fiscal discipline that is fine. The Nalen article is bunk. I bet the Patriots sign a few free agents this off-season. One could argue that we did the same thing to our guys (Trevor, Mike, and Jeb) or Ian Gold 2 years ago. However, the truth be told was they weren't willing to compromise with the Broncos or they would still be here. Vinateri wanted to be the highest paid kicker and the Patriots didn't want spend that much probably because they trying to give Richard Seymour a new contract (he will be a FA next year). I hear all these applauds for the Colts in signing Vinateri but why didn't they put their money to their own free agents E. James and D. Thorton? I guess they weren't loyal either. I am not a Patriot fan but to say that the Patriots aren't loyal to their players and no one wants to go there is ridiculous. What I see is the Patriots are loyal to their fans by not overspending on a kicker.
    I agree with alot of you post but I don't agree with one thing. Vinatieri isn't just a kicker. He's arguably one of the greatest kickers of all time. He's one of the four faces of the franchise. When you think of the Pats and their 3 out of 4 super bowls you think of Bellichick - Brady - Bruschi - Vinatieri. And probably in that order. Hell, a couple years ago the Pats weren't going to resign Bruschi. He didn't go with the money he stayed with the Pats. He showed loyalty to the Pats, not the other way around. The Pats stick to their guns, but sometimes there's exceptions to the rule. Vinatieri is one of those exceptions.

    Leave a comment:


  • Loyalty
    replied
    Originally posted by Archimedes Owl
    It's funny because I've noticed you complain about us not paying big money for free agents in the past.
    So is the way you are refuting his argument. I agree with Crugel if the Patriots think the price tag is too high and want some fiscal discipline that is fine. The Nalen article is bunk. I bet the Patriots sign a few free agents this off-season. One could argue that we did the same thing to our guys (Trevor, Mike, and Jeb) or Ian Gold 2 years ago. However, the truth be told was they weren't willing to compromise with the Broncos or they would still be here. Vinateri wanted to be the highest paid kicker and the Patriots didn't want spend that much probably because they trying to give Richard Seymour a new contract (he will be a FA next year). I hear all these applauds for the Colts in signing Vinateri but why didn't they put their money to their own free agents E. James and D. Thorton? I guess they weren't loyal either. I am not a Patriot fan but to say that the Patriots aren't loyal to their players and no one wants to go there is ridiculous. What I see is the Patriots are loyal to their fans by not overspending on a kicker.

    Leave a comment:


  • ydave77
    replied
    If its true I would understand it to some degree. I mean when you see the pats let guys like Vinateri, McGinest, etc walk without putting up much of a fight, it tells you something. Difft people value things difftly, we all may think every athlete's only gola is to win a championship, but thats not true. Think about where you work, some of the people there may be interested in making the company the best in its field, others are only interested in how much they get paid, others want a comfortable work environment where they feel appreciated, and still others care most about job security. Athletes, though we tend to glorify or villify them based on the situation, are only human. To some I am sure feeling appreciated, and having job security is more impt than having the best chance of a title. And I dont think I can judge that.

    Leave a comment:


  • jletourneau
    replied
    There is a fine line between fiscal responsibility with building through the draft and taking care of your own.

    Is there a chance the Pats have gotten a little full of themselves in the thinking that they can do what Denver does at RB at almost ANY position, thus they often force players to take below market value to STAY and let them go if they do not accept below market.

    This is not 100% true with them of course, and they have had no doubt a tremendous amount of success with how they have ran business. But, their "chemistry" that won them 3 Championships will fade about as fast as "original contracts."

    Leave a comment:


  • AsianOrange
    replied
    That's some good info...

    Do you lurk around Patriots board alot?

    Leave a comment:


  • penguin
    replied
    WR Rod Smith- Undrafted FA
    WR Ashley Lelie - Draft
    LT Matt Lepsis- undrafted
    LG Ben Hamilton- Draft
    C Tom Nalen- undrafted
    RG Cooper Carlisle- draft
    RT George Foster- Darft
    TE Stephen Alexander-FA
    QB Jake Plummer- FA
    RB Tatum Bell- Draft
    FB Kyle Johnson- Draft

    LDE Courtney Brown FA
    LDT Michael Myers FA
    RDT Gerard Warren FA
    RDE John Engelberger Trade for middlebrooks-draft
    SLB D.J. Williams Draft
    MLB Al Wilson Draft
    WLB Ian Gold Draft
    LCB Champ Bailey Trade for portis-draft
    RCB Darrent Williams Draft
    FS John Lynch FA
    SS Nick Ferguson FA

    Good thing we have no draft picks starting for our team. This just proves that shanahan can't draft. What a looser, get shanahan out........

    Leave a comment:


  • bcbronc
    replied
    Originally posted by dogfish
    no doubt they had a lot of injuries-- and they did not have the depth to withstand them. . . drafting well is a great thing, but you also need to retain some of your veterans for leadership and experience. . . and they are getting thinner all the time.

    i do agree with you

    but not too many teams have a lot of depth in todays nfl. but the pats have seemed a little hasty in getting rid of their starters. plus they built this team on draft picks in the top half of the 1st round. even after their first superbowl they managed to get earlier draft picks. things have gotten a little tougher for them picking from the back of the line.

    Leave a comment:


  • dogfish
    replied
    Originally posted by bcbronc
    well i think they missed rodney harrison more than lawyer milloy and corey dillon being banged up all year no doubt hurt their running game. they were a pretty banged up team last year. and ask the jets if law was worth the money he signed for.

    but all teams that win superbowls end up getting their coaching staff and free agents raided. its the nature of the game. when you consider that they lost both coordinators and had a ton of injuries on both sides of the ball, it has to be said that the pats did pretty good last season.

    but nalens quote does make it seem like it is going to be harder and harder for the pats to remain at the top of the heap. the last couple of years players wanted to go their for a chance to win a ring. but if this quote is true, players are starting to avoid new england. i dont care how good your drafting is, if you cant get a free agent without over paying you are not going to be a consistantly competitive team.

    no doubt they had a lot of injuries-- and they did not have the depth to withstand them. . . drafting well is a great thing, but you also need to retain some of your veterans for leadership and experience. . . and they are getting thinner all the time.

    Leave a comment:


  • bcbronc
    replied
    Originally posted by dogfish
    the pats have been a model of efficiency at drafting, but let's not forget that they also got very lucky having a 6th round QB turn into one of the best in the league-- if not for that one giant stroke of luck, they probably win zero super bowls despite the other success they've had in the draft. . .

    also, the unwillingness to pay to keep quality free agents has finally caught up to them-- their main weaknesses last year were lack of a running game, and lack of depth and talent in the secondary. . . and the inability to keep brady upright ushered in the end of their run here in denver. . . think they missed guys like lawyer milloy, ty law, damien woody and joe andruzzi?

    now they're letting more key guys walk and not doing anything to replace them. . . no matter how good your coach and QB are, they need some help, and the pats are banking far too much on belichik and brady for next year. . . they've had their run, and kraft is satisfied with it, they've done well enough to sell jerseys and tickets for the next decade or so, and he is now willing to rest on his laurels and rake in the dinero. . .

    well i think they missed rodney harrison more than lawyer milloy and corey dillon being banged up all year no doubt hurt their running game. they were a pretty banged up team last year. and ask the jets if law was worth the money he signed for.

    but all teams that win superbowls end up getting their coaching staff and free agents raided. its the nature of the game. when you consider that they lost both coordinators and had a ton of injuries on both sides of the ball, it has to be said that the pats did pretty good last season.

    but nalens quote does make it seem like it is going to be harder and harder for the pats to remain at the top of the heap. the last couple of years players wanted to go their for a chance to win a ring. but if this quote is true, players are starting to avoid new england. i dont care how good your drafting is, if you cant get a free agent without over paying you are not going to be a consistantly competitive team.

    Leave a comment:


  • dogfish
    replied
    Originally posted by Cugel
    Think about this carefully! Perhaps FAs don't like going to the Patriots because they have fiscal disipline and don't shower free-agent dollars like Dan Snyder of the Redskins!

    Now ask yourself another question. How many championships have the Patriots won in the last 10 years compared with how many playoff games the Redskins have won.

    Yeah, that's right! The Patriots have won 3 SBs, while the Redskins have been to the playoffs once!

    Which program works better?

    The Pats are simply the model for efficiency in the NFL. The players may think they are cheap but they keep winning.

    How does it work? The Pats rely upon draft picks! They draft well, they are disciplined and well coached and they don't overpay for FAs. When they lose a player via FA, they have the ability to promote a younger drafted player from within and keep right on winning.

    The opposite of the Broncos who have to sign all their FAs even when they're expensive underachievers like Warren & Brown, because they don't have the structure of good young rookies through the draft to promote from within to take their places!

    DL is the best example of this. There are NO Broncos draft picks on the entire DL! Not one now that Trevor Pryce is gone and he was drafted in 1998!

    Hopefully this year that will change!

    the pats have been a model of efficiency at drafting, but let's not forget that they also got very lucky having a 6th round QB turn into one of the best in the league-- if not for that one giant stroke of luck, they probably win zero super bowls despite the other success they've had in the draft. . .

    also, the unwillingness to pay to keep quality free agents has finally caught up to them-- their main weaknesses last year were lack of a running game, and lack of depth and talent in the secondary. . . and the inability to keep brady upright ushered in the end of their run here in denver. . . think they missed guys like lawyer milloy, ty law, damien woody and joe andruzzi?

    now they're letting more key guys walk and not doing anything to replace them. . . no matter how good your coach and QB are, they need some help, and the pats are banking far too much on belichik and brady for next year. . . they've had their run, and kraft is satisfied with it, they've done well enough to sell jerseys and tickets for the next decade or so, and he is now willing to rest on his laurels and rake in the dinero. . .

    Leave a comment:


  • WABronco
    replied
    Originally posted by The Dark Knight
    [Reali] Inside information! Point for Adande! [/Reali]
    Lol, I love that show!

    Leave a comment:


  • The Dark Knight
    replied
    Originally posted by WABronco
    http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/sho...threadid=16007



    I know, it's not really relevant. But it is interesting, to me anyways.

    SUCK ON THAT BELICHICK!

    [Reali] Inside information! Point for Adande! [/Reali]

    Leave a comment:

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