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Official Game Day Thread: 2018: Week 4 Chiefs Vs Broncos

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  • OK....to refresh my point:

    Though it did not happen - the TD to DT....if we had managed to pull out the victory on that final drive, I wonder how different this board would be. And no, I am not saying that one play was pivotal, I am only referencing it because it was clear a TD that was available to us with little time left. It could have been many individual plays.

    Sure, the "fire VJ" would still be alive and kicking, and the issue with Keenum would be topical, and so would a few other concerns, but I would suggest that the positives would stand out much more so than they have. I am actually surprised how little mention of the rookie duo at RB, and the point we did not in fact get kicked by KC, which was a common theme going into the game, and various other positives. Now, I did miss a few minutes here and there, but from what I can tell, we were 10 points up late in the game....which means we did a lot right.

    I hear your points, but I'm giving some credit to what was working, and what we can work with.
    Last edited by CanDB; 10-03-2018, 03:00 PM.

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    • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
      OK....to refresh my point:

      Though it did not happen - the TD to DT....if we had managed to pull out the victory on that final drive, I wonder how different this board would be. Sure, the fire VJs would be alive and kicking, and the issue with Keenum would be topical, and so would a few other concerns, but I would suggest that the positives would stand out much more so than they have. I am actually surprised how little mention of the rookie duo at RB, and the fact we did not get kicked by KC, which was a common theme going into the game.

      I hear your points, but I'm giving some credit to what was working, and what we can work with.
      I'm with you. I'm happy because I thought KC was going to put it on Denver but they played up to the challenge. At the same time, I'm also pissed because Denver should have won.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JCJE View Post
        Do me a favor, go re-watch the clip.
        Watch the DB & his speed compared to DT's speed. The DB is dropping off his coverage of DT so he was definitely not sprinting & neither was DT. Look closely & you'll see both of them start to sprint as soon as they see the ball is coming their way.

        The sidelines are 6 feet wide. The ball landed in the paint so it clearly wasn't 5 yards out of bounds. If DT had started his sprint a little sooner, maybe he would have caught that ball.

        Remember, I also said this:
        The flip side to this is maybe that's the way the play is designed in order to freeze the safety. We don't know for sure either way.

        If it was designed for DT to slow play it to hold the safety to the inside, then maybe it was just bad timing or maybe it was a bad throw or maybe DT slow played it a fraction too long or maybe it was combination of all 3.

        The point is, none of us knows for sure one way or the other so to make a definitive statement like "Case overthrew him plain & simple" is a little presumptuous, don't you think?
        I did watch the clip, multiple times. The ball landed maybe a foot inside the line, so if the sideline is 6 feet wide, then yes the ball landed 5 feet out of bounds. We can nitpick video where we can slow frames down and try to dissect every movement in slo-mo, but in real time that ball was overthrown. Even if DT somehow was able to leap and catch it, he was not going to come down in bounds. And I don't think I'm being presumptuous to say that.

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        • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
          OK....to refresh my point:

          Though it did not happen - the TD to DT....if we had managed to pull out the victory on that final drive, I wonder how different this board would be. And no, I am not saying that one play was pivotal, I am only referencing it because it was clear a TD that was available to us with little time left. It could have been many individual plays.

          Sure, the "fire VJ" would still be alive and kicking, and the issue with Keenum would be topical, and so would a few other concerns, but I would suggest that the positives would stand out much more so than they have. I am actually surprised how little mention of the rookie duo at RB, and the point we did not in fact get kicked by KC, which was a common theme going into the game, and various other positives. Now, I did miss a few minutes here and there, but from what I can tell, we were 10 points up late in the game....which means we did a lot right.

          I hear your points, but I'm giving some credit to what was working, and what we can work with.
          I agree with you CanDB.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by L.M. View Post
            The missed pass to DT was pivotal, but to pin it all on that is a lot like saying that the Raheem Morris blunder in our '12 playoff loss to the Ravens cost us that game. There were a half dozen other major factors that contributed to that loss, and many as well vs. KC on Monday night.

            Keenum's mistakes and poor coaching in the last ten minutes killed it. Despite Mahomes stellar ability, I think we could have won 26-20 or 30-20 if we had utilized Freeman more, and chewed up more clock. These issues aren't new, and have been with us to varying degrees (in wins and losses alike) since last year.
            I had similar thoughts.

            If one of three field goals had instead been a touchdown drive the Broncos would have won.

            If the offense would not have gone three and out on the drive before KC scored the go ahead touchdown, the odds of winning would have increased.

            If the defense would have held KC when they had 2nd and 30, the Broncos would have likely won.

            If, if if...

            I agree the discussions would be different had Keenum connected with DT, but it didn’t happen.

            Good teams find a way to win at home with a 10 point lead against the worst defense in the league.
            Last edited by Fantaztic7; 10-03-2018, 04:31 PM.

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            • I'll say one thing. If KC completes the pass to DT, we would probably be talking about Keenum's drive. He completed some tough passes on 3rd/4th down.

              If...

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              • Originally posted by GMTD View Post
                I'll say one thing. If KC completes the pass to DT, we would probably be talking about Keenum's drive. He completed some tough passes on 3rd/4th down.

                If...
                Exactly.....and yes, to those of you who have concerns, I appreciate that "what ifs" don't count. But I am seeing a lot of "down" after the game, even though we had a number of "ups" to be encouraged about. And not saying you folks, but some people will always equate a win to success, no matter how they win, whereas some folks can not see any positives in a loss.....EVEN IF the game could have easily gone the other way.

                I can see the anxiety factor, and the disappointment in losing a game that seemed well in hand. But I do not agree that most things are right when you win, and most things are wrong when you lose....and in both cases, if the game came down to one finishing drive.

                So I summarize (again)…...I give credit to the highly ranked KC team, for making the comeback. And I give kudos to many of our guys, who are either proven players, or new and improving as we speak. No doubt there are takeaways that need work, and question marks about Keenum and coaching, and whether or not we have enough D to carry us a little. But there are positives to work with. Seriously, how many of you thought we would have a pretty dynamic rushing pair, as rookies??? In fact, I am not big on Elway's drafting, but so far his team of evaluators have had a solid '18 draft!!
                Last edited by CanDB; 10-03-2018, 04:52 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                  Exactly.....and yes, to those of you who have concerns, I appreciate that "what ifs" don't count. But I am seeing a lot of "down" after the game, even though we had a number of "ups" to be encouraged about. And not saying you folks, but some people will always equate a win to success, no matter how they win, whereas some folks can not see any positives in a loss.....EVEN IF the game could have easily gone the other way.

                  I can see the anxiety factor, and the disappointment in losing a game that seemed well in hand. But I do not agree that most things are right when you win, and most things are wrong when you lose....and in both cases, if the game came down to one finishing drive.

                  So I summarize (again)…...I give credit to the highly ranked KC team, for making the comeback. And I give kudos to many of our guys, who are either proven players, or new and improving as we speak. No doubt there are takeaways that need work, and question marks about Keenum and coaching, and whether or not we have enough D to carry us a little. But there are positives to work with. Seriously, how many of you thought we would have a pretty dynamic rushing pair, as rookies??? In fact, I am not big on Elway's drafting, but so far his team of evaluators have had a solid '18 draft!!
                  I agree there were positives. I had the Broncos winning 31-24 and the team was on it’s way to winning with a 10 point lead. The question is whether or not the coaching and execution will improve enough to beat good teams. The Broncos has to mount comebacks to beat a mediocre Seahawks team and the Raiders, a bad team.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                    I agree there were positives. I had the Broncos winning 31-24 and the team was on it’s way to winning with a 10 point lead. The question is whether or not the coaching and execution will improve enough to beat good teams. The Broncos has to mount comebacks to beat a mediocre Seahawks team and the Raiders, a bad team.
                    You see.....because of my slight concern about Keenum back when we signed him, and the fact we knew little about the Freeman/Lindsay combo, I must be honest, I did not see us as a playoff team this year. So when I see strides of a positive nature, it makes me think we are on the right path, though maybe a year or two away. And there are some important factors that I need answers to, including the QB short and long term plan, coaching, Oline, and even whether our D is close to being back to recent years success.

                    So for me it wasn't about being a contender, but whether or not we were on the right path. That does not single out the playoffs this year. Heck, teams have gotten in with pretty ordinary records, so it is not out of the realm of possibility for us to either sneak in....or, maybe bang the door right down and make a bigger statement. But I was not, and still am not, convinced about the playoffs.

                    Therefore it's about things that will improve the likelihood of long term success, and we have those things. Again, we have at least 3 rookies on O that could be game changers. And Chubb is widely understood to be one of the best picks in the draft. He needs time.

                    If I may, and look a year or two ahead, I believe we will need a better QB, continued improvement on the Oline, and filling of any gaps on D. As for coaching...not convinced we have the right folks, but to be fair, they need time too.


                    To conclude....we are on the right path in some areas....I'll take that for now and hope for more as we go.
                    Last edited by CanDB; 10-03-2018, 05:23 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                      You see.....because of my slight concern about Keenum back when we signed him, and the fact we knew little about the Freeman/Lindsay combo, I must be honest, I did not see us as a playoff team this year. So when I see strides of a positive nature, it makes me think we are on the right path, though maybe a year away. And there are some important factors that I need answers to, including the QB short and long term plan, coaching, Oline and even whether our D is close to being back to recent years success.


                      So for me it wasn't about being a contender, but whether or not we were on the right path. That does not single out the playoffs this year. Heck, teams have gotten in with pretty ordinary records, so it is not out of the realm of possibility for us to either sneak in....or, maybe bang the door right down and make a bigger statement. But I was not, and still am not, convinced about the playoffs.

                      Therefore it's about things that will improve the likelihood of long term success, and we have those things. Again, we have at least 3 rookies on O that could be game changers. And Chubb is widely understood to be one of the best picks in the draft. He needs time.

                      If I may, and look a year or two ahead, I believe we will need a better QB, continued improvement on the Oline, and filling of any gaps on D. As for coaching...not convinced we have the right folks, but to be fair, they need time too.


                      To conclude....we are on the right path in some areas....I'll take that for now and hope for more as we go.

                      This, 100% this. I don't feel we are on the right path. I am perfectly happy accepting growing pains if we are working toward something.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                        You see.....because of my slight concern about Keenum back when we signed him, and the fact we knew little about the Freeman/Lindsay combo, I must be honest, I did not see us as a playoff team this year. So when I see strides of a positive nature, it makes me think we are on the right path, though maybe a year or two away. And there are some important factors that I need answers to, including the QB short and long term plan, coaching, Oline, and even whether our D is close to being back to recent years success.

                        So for me it wasn't about being a contender, but whether or not we were on the right path. That does not single out the playoffs this year. Heck, teams have gotten in with pretty ordinary records, so it is not out of the realm of possibility for us to either sneak in....or, maybe bang the door right down and make a bigger statement. But I was not, and still am not, convinced about the playoffs.

                        Therefore it's about things that will improve the likelihood of long term success, and we have those things. Again, we have at least 3 rookies on O that could be game changers. And Chubb is widely understood to be one of the best picks in the draft. He needs time.

                        If I may, and look a year or two ahead, I believe we will need a better QB, continued improvement on the Oline, and filling of any gaps on D. As for coaching...not convinced we have the right folks, but to be fair, they need time too.


                        To conclude....we are on the right path in some areas....I'll take that for now and hope for more as we go.
                        Completely agree CanDB. And while I wish more had our viewpoint, I can understand the frustration of those that don't. I try to acknowledge valid points even when they differ from my view. Though I do tend to challenge points that come across to me was extremely exaggerated. I see improvement and am willing to give things some time. Which doesn't mean (as some might believe) that I am accepting mediocrity or am okay with losing.
                        Last edited by cirehawk; 10-03-2018, 07:59 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                          You see.....because of my slight concern about Keenum back when we signed him, and the fact we knew little about the Freeman/Lindsay combo, I must be honest, I did not see us as a playoff team this year. So when I see strides of a positive nature, it makes me think we are on the right path, though maybe a year or two away. And there are some important factors that I need answers to, including the QB short and long term plan, coaching, Oline, and even whether our D is close to being back to recent years success.

                          So for me it wasn't about being a contender, but whether or not we were on the right path. That does not single out the playoffs this year. Heck, teams have gotten in with pretty ordinary records, so it is not out of the realm of possibility for us to either sneak in....or, maybe bang the door right down and make a bigger statement. But I was not, and still am not, convinced about the playoffs.

                          Therefore it's about things that will improve the likelihood of long term success, and we have those things. Again, we have at least 3 rookies on O that could be game changers. And Chubb is widely understood to be one of the best picks in the draft. He needs time.

                          If I may, and look a year or two ahead, I believe we will need a better QB, continued improvement on the Oline, and filling of any gaps on D. As for coaching...not convinced we have the right folks, but to be fair, they need time too.


                          To conclude....we are on the right path in some areas....I'll take that for now and hope for more as we go.
                          Agree. Looking at the schedule, draft and signing Keenum I thought the Broncos could be 10-6, maybe 11-5 with a chance to win the AFC West. After the loss at home to KC it will be very difficult to win the division - don’t see the Broncos bearing KC on the road.

                          We’ll see how the season plays out. One quarter of the games are behind us. Let’s see how the team responds on the road this week.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by cirehawk View Post
                            Completely agree CanDB. And while I wish more had our viewpoint, I can understand the frustration of those that don't. I try to acknowledge valid point even when they differ from my view. I do ten to challenge points that come across to me was extremely exaggerated. I see improvement and am willing to give things some time. Which doesn't mean (as some might believe) that I am accepting mediocrity or am okay with losing.
                            True enough....I understand the frustration losing a winnable game.

                            Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                            Agree. Looking at the schedule, draft and signing Keenum I thought the Broncos could be 10-6, maybe 11-5 with a chance to win the AFC West. After the loss at home to KC it will be very difficult to win the division - don’t see the Broncos bearing KC on the road.

                            We’ll see how the season plays out. One quarter of the games are behind us. Let’s see how the team responds on the road this week.
                            Gonna be tough. But folks must remember....we got the 4th overall pick because we had work to do.

                            But I will say this, for there to be hope, we need a W this week. The Jets are very beatable, behind a rookie. But they can be effective running the ball, and they sure made Detroit look bad while on the road. Not sure if that was the real Jets, the real Lions, or various combos therein.

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                            • Moral victories are for losers.

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                              • Originally posted by Narco View Post
                                Moral victories are for losers.
                                Sooo tempted, but better not.

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