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Official Game Day Thread: 2020: Week 9 Broncos vs Raiders

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  • L.M.
    replied
    Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post

    About Allen, there's actually a really good vid on YouTube about what he did last offseason. This guy talked to a reputable QB coach about what he saw on film. Aside from decision making, the biggest difference was that he added a little crow hop to his front foot on throws when he has time to set up and do it. For whatever reason, this seems to force his back foot to come around and get him to rotate and follow through properly. I was a little skeptical until I watched the Cardinals game. When he doesn't have time to do it, his throws start to move around again.

    I kind of see Allen as a better example for Lock than Tagovailoa or Herbert, because I didn't really see those two as being super flawed mechanically coming out. Also, the decision making was a problem for Allen early as it has been for Lock. But, since I am talking about Allen, I also have to acknowledge that Allen had more upside than Lock talent wise. I'm saying that if you want to mold a raw quarterback, you can do way worse than a guy with Allen's arm and ability to run. And by that I mean worse like 9 out of 10 times. So if you ask me point blank, can Lock ever be what Josh Allen is becoming, I'd say no. That alone doesn't mean that I don't think Lock can become a quality NFL quarterback. The question is, does the front office want to invest in that any further.
    There's good reason Lock fell to the 2nd round -he's pretty raw, a project needing more development time than high first rounders like Tua & Co. If Lock is going to have a future in the NFL, he will have to spend the offseason receiving expert coaching/retraining to correct his mechanics.

    Broncos would have pick #11 if the season ended today, not high enough to get one of the best QBs on the board, so I think they may roll with Lock. This season will be written off because of COVID, the rather extensive injury bug, etc. and probably the only significant change will be canning ST coach Tom McMahon. 2021 will then be the last chance for everyone: Lock, Fangio, and Elway. Playoffs or bust!

    Leave a comment:


  • Spice 1
    replied
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post

    It's completely unfair to compare quarterback development from one to another. Josh Allen took 2 seasons to become much more polished. Baker Mayfield regressed substantially in his 2nd year. Manning threw 28 picks or whatever his rookie year. Elway lined up behind his guard.

    Again, I'm not saying Drew is the guy because as I sit here right now I don't think he is. But I do think it's fair to take the totality of everything that's gone on and understand that this isn't completely on him. A lot of it is, but not all of it.
    About Allen, there's actually a really good vid on YouTube about what he did last offseason. This guy talked to a reputable QB coach about what he saw on film. Aside from decision making, the biggest difference was that he added a little crow hop to his front foot on throws when he has time to set up and do it. For whatever reason, this seems to force his back foot to come around and get him to rotate and follow through properly. I was a little skeptical until I watched the Cardinals game. When he doesn't have time to do it, his throws start to move around again.

    I kind of see Allen as a better example for Lock than Tagovailoa or Herbert, because I didn't really see those two as being super flawed mechanically coming out. Also, the decision making was a problem for Allen early as it has been for Lock. But, since I am talking about Allen, I also have to acknowledge that Allen had more upside than Lock talent wise. I'm saying that if you want to mold a raw quarterback, you can do way worse than a guy with Allen's arm and ability to run. And by that I mean worse like 9 out of 10 times. So if you ask me point blank, can Lock ever be what Josh Allen is becoming, I'd say no. That alone doesn't mean that I don't think Lock can become a quality NFL quarterback. The question is, does the front office want to invest in that any further.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

    I have a hard time swallowing that though. Herbert looks the part, Tua through just 2 games looks more advanced and Lock has had an off-season last year. Shurmur hasn't done him any real favors but he shouldn't get any of the blame for any of those ridiculous interceptions
    It's completely unfair to compare quarterback development from one to another. Josh Allen took 2 seasons to become much more polished. Baker Mayfield regressed substantially in his 2nd year. Manning threw 28 picks or whatever his rookie year. Elway lined up behind his guard.

    Again, I'm not saying Drew is the guy because as I sit here right now I don't think he is. But I do think it's fair to take the totality of everything that's gone on and understand that this isn't completely on him. A lot of it is, but not all of it.

    Leave a comment:


  • JvDub95
    replied
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post

    Well, there are things you can say in fairness to Lock that are 100% true. The lack of off season preparation and preseason definitely has hurt his progression. The terrible offensive line is hindering his ability to look downfield. I think his shoulder is still hurt. And Pat Shurmur has been an unmitigated disaster as offensive coordinator. The worst decision Fangio has probably made in his season and a half as a coach was firing Scangarello.

    Now, that's not to say Lock hasn't been awful himself. But there are other factors going on for sure that's contributing to his poor play.
    I have a hard time swallowing that though. Herbert looks the part, Tua through just 2 games looks more advanced and Lock has had an off-season last year. Shurmur hasn't done him any real favors but he shouldn't get any of the blame for any of those ridiculous interceptions

    Leave a comment:


  • Ear2dastreets
    replied
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post

    Well, there are things you can say in fairness to Lock that are 100% true. The lack of off season preparation and preseason definitely has hurt his progression. The terrible offensive line is hindering his ability to look downfield. I think his shoulder is still hurt. And Pat Shurmur has been an unmitigated disaster as offensive coordinator. The worst decision Fangio has probably made in his season and a half as a coach was firing Scangarello.

    Now, that's not to say Lock hasn't been awful himself. But there are other factors going on for sure that's contributing to his poor play.
    You mean more excuses, ..... no qb had an offseason, tua, or Herbert.....thats not an excuse. Every team complains abut their line....I went in greenbay, Pittsburgh message they saying the same thing. But when you have a qb he can help cover it up until you can address it.

    Some people sound like a broken record.....lock didn't have blah, blah, blah,....we have Trevor,brock, Paxton, case, orton. Please go back and tell me they people wasn't complaining about the oline???? Ill wait....you know when they didn't come when we had manning get the ball out and making the right decision.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post

    Amazing the excuses people can make. This is starting to be like it was when Tebow was here. He could do no wrong. Hopefully it turns out like Tebow did with him on another team.
    Well, there are things you can say in fairness to Lock that are 100% true. The lack of off season preparation and preseason definitely has hurt his progression. The terrible offensive line is hindering his ability to look downfield. I think his shoulder is still hurt. And Pat Shurmur has been an unmitigated disaster as offensive coordinator. The worst decision Fangio has probably made in his season and a half as a coach was firing Scangarello.

    Now, that's not to say Lock hasn't been awful himself. But there are other factors going on for sure that's contributing to his poor play.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ear2dastreets
    replied
    Originally posted by Dotst View Post

    cant go through progressions if you have 2 seconds to throw the ball
    Amazing the excuses people can make. This is starting to be like it was when Tebow was here. He could do no wrong. Hopefully it turns out like Tebow did with him on another team.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dotst
    replied
    Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post

    Coaching does make a difference and we have the best oline coach (arguably) in the game. This was 100% on Lock.... nobody else. That pick in the endzone was on the line? It was on the coaches? That was absolutely terrible and nobody to blame but Lock!! Jeudy should have had around 10 catches today, he was open all day long. Lock has tunnel vision and doesn't go through progressions. He predetermines who he wants to go to presnap and it's killing this team
    cant go through progressions if you have 2 seconds to throw the ball

    Leave a comment:


  • JvDub95
    replied
    Originally posted by Dotst View Post

    Coaching calls better plays, easier plays, makes the oline better. Do people not understand how much of a difference a good coach makes? Lock had 0 time to throw the ball today

    our whole receiving core today was a ghost
    Coaching does make a difference and we have the best oline coach (arguably) in the game. This was 100% on Lock.... nobody else. That pick in the endzone was on the line? It was on the coaches? That was absolutely terrible and nobody to blame but Lock!! Jeudy should have had around 10 catches today, he was open all day long. Lock has tunnel vision and doesn't go through progressions. He predetermines who he wants to go to presnap and it's killing this team

    Leave a comment:


  • Oust_Elway
    replied
    Not a good one for Lock. I don’t think he reads the field well. He constantly only looks to the right side of the field to the middle. Rarely even looks to the left let alone throw that way which has to make it easy for defenses to anticipate his throws. Also, I think he is regressing compared to what we saw at the end of last year. Reminds me of Siemian some. Flashed some hope in the beginning before sinking into the abyss.

    Leave a comment:


  • drhiii
    replied
    Originally posted by fraguela09 View Post
    Lock doesn’t have it up above the neck. Won’t matter how many games of experience he gets. You know it when you know it... he won’t ever know it. He’s precocious and full of wonderment, as an urban poet, but not a good QB.
    Brilliant. Spot on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ear2dastreets
    replied
    Originally posted by sra84 View Post
    Once the Jets have the #1 pick secured, I'm making an offer. Or try to get the #2 pick.

    Tank for Trevor
    Fail for Fields
    I totally agree with this comment. I been saying this in my head since game one lol.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrMax
    replied
    No worries guys, At the end of the season, Elway will get rid of players, fire coaches, then try find any players or coaches who would want to work for him , then deja vu again.
    The Broncos problem certainly doesnt start at the type personality at the top.
    I can't believe he won't just admit he out of his element and Ellis should admit he's been a failure for the team and the Bowlen family. Let the courts take it over, they could not do much worse than both elway and ellis have done for the last 5 years.
    Every player and coach that Elway has got rid of has done better after the Broncos were in their rear view mirror. Why would any body want to coach or play for the JE boys unless nobody they had no other options?

    Leave a comment:


  • fraguela09
    replied
    Lock doesn’t have it up above the neck. Won’t matter how many games of experience he gets. You know it when you know it... he won’t ever know it. He’s precocious and full of wonderment, as an urban poet, but not a good QB.

    Leave a comment:


  • GMTD
    replied
    Originally posted by Elway View Post

    Not going to argue that part, you hope you see glimpses of what he could be in the future. I think today we saw them pretty clear.

    No vision, no foot work, poor decision making, and can't read the whole field. He is not solely the whole problem. He certainly isn't helping.
    Oh for sure, it isn't all on him but as you say, he isn't helping.

    Leave a comment:

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