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Lancane's Draft as of 1/3/08

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  • #16
    Nice effort as always Cane.

    Now for my thoughts....


    1) I do think Mendenhall is a consideration but I think there will be better value for the team at both WR and SS. He's not a bad pick, but he's going to have to do more in the post season to solidify a Top 15 billing. And he still needs to beat out Jonathan Stewart and possibly Felix Jones to do so. As of this moment, I don't think he has established himself as a Top 12 selection.


    2) I do not like Dre Moore here. They might have stopped Slaton, as a lot of teams did, but they got run over in their bowl game to the tune of 300 yards against mighty Oregan State. I dont think Moore even enters the draft equation until about midway through the 3rd round. Now Marcus Harrison, if the team overlooks his off field transgressions might be a 2nd round consideration.


    3) Caldwell is going to be poor value in the 3rd, rumors are rampant that Malcolm Kelly and Devon Thomas are coming out. To go along with James Hardy. Early Doucet and Limas Sweed are probably pushed down to mid 2nd rounders now, at least Sweed is with his injury and slow 40. It's possible someone like Keenon Burton falls to the mid 3rd now, and Devone Bess will definitely be there. This is going to be a doozy of a draft for WRs. I think Caldwell is a 4th rounder at best.


    4) I think Griffin is going to be a mid-2nd round pick. Probably to Carolina if they miss on Kenny Phillips in the 1st. And especially if Nic Harris does not declare.


    5) Oniel Cousins is a possibility in the upper 4th, I think he goes in the 3rd round, but I think this is a very valid and possibly extremely smart selection.


    6) At FB, I think that's a slight reach when Peyton Hillis should still be around. And if not, if Lane declares, he might be a better option as well.


    7) Woodyard is interesting, but like others, I'm not a fan of hybrid players. He's barely played safety in his entire life. I think it was 6 games ever. And he likely has no future at LB in the NFL.


    8) I'm ok with the last two guys, though I don't think the OC is an improvement over what we have. Eslinger was released again recently by Cleveland as well, so we can always pick him up if needed.


    9) You forgot our 7th round selection for Plummer.




    Overall though, it's a great effort and fine mock. I think you tabbed some decent players, my critique would be the draft value appears off at this particular point in time. If you are basing it on where you think the players will be after offseason workouts, then that's another story.

    Comment


    • #17
      Hear me out on this one.......if we get Dre Moore we must dump Bates and sign a coordinator who plays aggresive defense(Rex Ryan or anyone else of that type)

      Dre and Marcus is a good DT combo however Bates needs an NT. If we can bring in a NT like Sopoaga or Ethan Kelly it should be enough to have a solid interior. NOt for Bates though. Dump Bates and start to play an aggressive defense that fits our personnel similar to what we did in 2005.

      Dre moore and Thomas can PENETRATE

      B-Marsh owning Al Harris(Aka: the supposed most physical corner in the league)

      Mock Draft:

      **If Ellis/Dorsey fall**

      1) Dorsey or Ellis(whoever falls)
      2) Devin Thomas
      4) Frank Okam
      4) Beau Bell

      **If Ellis/Dorsey dont fall**

      1) Desean Jackson
      2) Pat Sims or Trevor Laws(whoever falls)
      4) Frank Okam
      4) Beau Bell

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
        1) I do think Mendenhall is a consideration but I think there will be better value for the team at both WR and SS. He's not a bad pick, but he's going to have to do more in the post season to solidify a Top 15 billing. And he still needs to beat out Jonathan Stewart and possibly Felix Jones to do so. As of this moment, I don't think he has established himself as a Top 12 selection.
        Thanks as always MUG!

        First off those listening to the report of MindFields regarding Stewart by the Florida Booster and the local supposed media, I ask you this...please read our staff directory before making comments, we have hardly one scout based in the west, how in the hell are the Broncos going to be looking at Stewart, when Oregon goes to play an actual good school? Mendenhall is from Shanahan's home state, we have scouts in the north and eastern confrences more then anywhere followed by the mid-west and central locations. The most western draft pick we have would be Chris Kuper from North Dakota, we do not draft from USC, Cal, Oregon, SD State, San Jose State, Fresno and so on. Look at the roster, go look and click on how acq. look at our draftees, most are from the eastern confrences...name one from the western confrences besides Elam? Especially all the new additions who we love, like Cutler, Marshall, Dumervil, Foxworth...

        Secondly, when Shanahan looks at running backs do you really think he will go after a bowler like he had in Henry again? Stewart is a Henry clone, a Bettis style runner...While Mendenhall has been called a T.D. clone, why do you think Henry became a benched commodity? While Young has gotten the more of the carries lately...because Young fits the system better, getting tough yards is one thing, but being a playmaker is another. Henry's longest run was 33 yards, Dayne even did better then that here, while Young had several long runs, the longest of which was 50 yards. So when Shanahan looks at the halfbacks he wants the combination of one who can do what both brings, that would be Mendenhall over Jones and Stewart, McFadden would be the only other I would think he has rated higher then Mendenhall.

        Thirdly, three of the top agencies have Mendenhall as a top 15 back, Stewart is still there as well, but Jones is falling and is a 1st Round pick, but he will be taken in the twenty-something area. Those same three agencies have all said that between Stewart and Mendenhall, that Mendenhall would be an elite while Stewart would be your standard big body franchise back, he will not scare people and just get yards, while defenses will game plan for Mendenhall, that and the fact he is from Illinois, Shanahan's home state...if he took Stewart over Mendenhall it would be a mistake. Just like I said we should not draft Moss, and well...enough said!



        Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
        2) I do not like Dre Moore here. I dont think Moore even enters the draft equation until about midway through the 3rd round. Now Marcus Harrison, if the team overlooks his off field transgressions might be a 2nd round consideration.
        Moore has been climbing steadily and he has the upside the Broncos want, they are not going to keep drafting inflicted players and athletes to the roster every season, and that is the only way Harrison is drafted. I like Harrison from a player persepective, but Moore is a solid second round pick with day one talent, he is a run stuffer up there with the likes of Okam and a pass rusher up there with the likes of Ellis. Thomas though a good defensive tackle is a big boy, I think with his lack to rush he should be moved right next to Crowder or Ekuban shutting down the strong side, while Moore could be a lethal addition on the left side rushing with Dumervil or Moss. I am sorry you do not like him, but with the way we draft defensively from certain confrences and schools, the only other options are Okam from Texas, Red Bryant from Texas A&M and DeMario Pressley from North Carolina State.

        Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
        3) Caldwell is going to be poor value in the 3rd, rumors are rampant that Malcolm Kelly and Devon Thomas are coming out. To go along with James Hardy. Early Doucet and Limas Sweed are probably pushed down to mid 2nd rounders now, at least Sweed is with his injury and slow 40. It's possible someone like
        Do you really think I want Caldwell over the likes of Burton, Bennet, Hocker or even Bess? I am not drafting MUG because I like the players best, yes I get lucky with Mendenhall because I like him and I know what he could bring, but also because he is a big possiblity. Dream said it best with his question, there are those who mock draft who they want the team to draft and those who they think the team will take. Florida is one of our biggest ties in the college ranks, Caldwell only short of Bennet or Kelly comes from a school with known ties. They will both be gone and if we could I would take Bennet from Vandy or Burton from Kentucky over this kid...I think he has the tangibles but he will not be an all-pro. All those with deep hopes of us drafting from Cal and USC need to realize we are more likely to draft from I-A schools then those powerhouses.

        Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
        4) I think Griffin is going to be a mid-2nd round pick.
        That is your opinion MUG but he is slated as a late 2nd Round Pick, but this is the year for hybrids and of all safeties entering the draft his ranked 12th overall, while corners who will be looked at as DB or transitional safeties from corner or linebacker there are about five or six with a higher draft grade...then he slips, look at Mike Jenkins from Central Florida...one hell of a cornerback, top 15 grade. He may be better suited to be a FS in the NFL then a corner and he has the tangibles. He is also an option over Phillips in round one, for all the Phillip fanatics!


        Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
        5) Oniel Cousins is a possibility in the upper 4th, I think he goes in the 3rd round, but I think this is a very valid and possibly extremely smart selection.
        Not many teams use the zone blocking scheme which this kid excels in, so I think your a bit off only in that he may be gone. I agree that he is one of the better tackles in the draft, but there will be many teams that overlook that because of the scheme, let alone he is told to have a very bad mean streak, some teams will pass on him. I think he may go in the third round, but he can fall...and if we get a receiver in free agency, then Oniel Cousins takes Caldwell's spot in the third! And he would be next to Mendenhall my favorite pick thus far...I do like Moore as well, but Cousins may be even a better fit then Harris in Denver's scheme.

        Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
        6) At FB, I think that's a slight reach when Peyton Hillis should still be around. And if not, if Lane declares, he might be a better option as well.
        Caulcrick is faster then Hillis with more muscle mass, at 260lbs. the only think Hillis may be better at is receiving...not a good way to base a need of rushing and pass blocking which Caulcrick is better graded at then both Lane and Hillis. Lane is a rushing fullback more like Alstott, and I think Lane will be a third rounder taken to be a halfback not a fullback, probably by the Steelers. While Hillis is smaller and more sound all around, I think Caulcrick being a Michigan product where we do have some ties will be taken right near Hillis and by Denver!

        Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
        7) Woodyard is interesting, but like others, I'm not a fan of hybrid players.
        I was a hybrid player...

        Woodyard is a double edged weapon he can boost special teams, he can play more then one spot in a need of relief via depth and that multi purposal reason is why he is so sound, what if Winborn went down from injury, or we had another string of injuries which hurt our safeties, would you rather we throw a corner to play safety or a hybrid who can knock the snot out of someone who has a forty of 4.41?

        Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
        8) I'm ok with the last two guys, though I don't think the OC is an improvement over what we have.
        No...Eslinger will not make it in the league I feel, he is too light and Legursky can move very quickly for his size, he is the type of lineman you want to be the head of your monster offensive line! And he has not missed time due to injury and has that old-time toughness like Zimmerman and Nalen we really need. And Watkins is just a good depth addition, but a special teams nightmare, I think he would be our next Keith Burns if we get him, backup to all spots and just a sound leader and tough guy on special teams.

        Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
        9) You forgot our 7th round selection for Plummer.
        As far as I know because he never even entered training camp we do not get this pick. Plummer had to show up at least to camp for this trade to hold, since he did not then if I was you...I would not count on it!

        Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
        Overall though, it's a great effort and fine mock. I think you tabbed some decent players, my critique would be the draft value appears off at this particular point in time.
        I have it based off of where I think they will slide to in the end if it broke down, too many times have we said this player will be here or there only to slide, look at Dumervil, Thomas and several others...the fact is that when it is said and done many fall at least by a half round and gain by as much!

        Comment


        • #19
          Wait a minute.. did I read this right???????

          Rnd 1: Rashard Mendenhall - HB - Illinois??? I can't believe lancane believes this is the guy we should draft.. this is a SHOCKER!!


          (you know, YOU are going to be the sole blame for when this board goes 'crybaby' when we don't draft him. Its goign to be your fault for building him up)

          Comment


          • #20
            Denver's scouting area is split up into eight regions, and yes they scout PAC-10 schools. It's closer than anywhere else, and just because we don't have a lot of PAC-10, and coastal school players from the West does not mean we do not scout there. Denver is a spit from a majority of those schools, why would they not scout them. I give thanks to you referring me in your post, but I just had to clear that up. To assume that we don't do that because we have relatively few PAC-10 players, and western school players on this team would be false to do.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by lancane View Post


              As far as I know because he never even entered training camp we do not get this pick. Plummer had to show up at least to camp for this trade to hold, since he did not then if I was you...I would not count on it!

              Cool. Does that mean you think the Bucs will give up the 7.5 million they were going to get for the trade in exchange for their 7th round pick then???

              Comment


              • #22
                Denver gets their seventh rounder, it would have escalated to a fourth had he reported to camp.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                  Cool. Does that mean you think the Bucs will give up the 7.5 million they were going to get for the trade in exchange for their 7th round pick then???
                  Not sure, but all the experts have had the Bucs keeping their pick in the 7th...so I would believe the trade is void period! Now I am not for sure, only those with the knowledge of the rules applying to the trade and the summary of the contents or regulations of the trade. We will see, but I still would not count on it till we are informed for sure.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by lancane View Post
                    [

                    Thirdly, three of the top agencies have Mendenhall as a top 15 back, Stewart is still there as well, but Jones is falling and is a 1st Round pick, but he will be taken in the twenty-something area. Those same three agencies have all said that between Stewart and Mendenhall, that Mendenhall would be an elite while Stewart would be your standard big body franchise back, he will not scare people and just get yards, while defenses will game plan for Mendenhall, that and the fact he is from Illinois, Shanahan's home state...if he took Stewart over Mendenhall it would be a mistake. Just like I said we should not draft Moss, and well...enough said![/COLOR][/B]
                    Do you have a link?

                    I haven't seen any projection where he's a top 15 pick. He's most likely a mid round pick at the highest, and the combine is likely going to separate the talent between Charles, Mendenhall, Johnson, and Jones.

                    He's behind McFadden and Stewart, and will likely be behind Chris Johnson after the combine. Jamaal Charles and Felix Jones will both have a say in that also.

                    They're all first round talent, but Charles, Mendenhall, Johnson, and Jones are questions because they have either only had 1 great year in college, or split time. The only question mark on Johnson is level of competition. He's an every down, multi purpose back who runs hard between the tackles and is incredibly explosive on the outside.

                    Out of those 6, you're likely only looking at 3 first round RB's IMHO regardless of their talent, and I don't see any RB outside of McFadden going top 15.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by silkamilkamonic
                      Do you have a link?

                      I haven't seen any projection where he's a top 15 pick. He's most likely a mid round pick at the highest, and the combine is likely going to separate the talent between Charles, Mendenhall, Johnson, and Jones.

                      He's behind McFadden and Stewart, and will likely be behind Chris Johnson after the combine. Jamaal Charles and Felix Jones will both have a say in that also.

                      They're all first round talent, but Charles, Mendenhall, Johnson, and Jones are questions because they have either only had 1 great year in college, or split time. The only question mark on Johnson is level of competition. He's an every down, multi purpose back who runs hard between the tackles and is incredibly explosive on the outside.

                      Out of those 6, you're likely only looking at 3 first round RB's, and I don't see any RB outside of McFadden going top 15.
                      Here is one Silk and many believe Johnson will be a mid to late 2nd Round pick with Jamaal leaving Texas... http://walterfootball.com/draft2008RB.php

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Dream View Post
                        Denver gets their seventh rounder, it would have escalated to a fourth had he reported to camp.
                        Really? I never read we would have gotten a fourth round pick if he showed up to camp...where did you find that out at Dream?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by lancane View Post
                          Really? I never read we would have gotten a fourth round pick if he showed up to camp...where did you find that out at Dream?
                          That's what the deal was. It was a conditional pick. It was reported a while ago.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by lancane View Post
                            Thanks as always MUG!

                            First off those listening to the report of MindFields regarding Stewart by the Florida Booster and the local supposed media, I ask you this...please read our staff directory before making comments, we have hardly one scout based in the west, how in the hell are the Broncos going to be looking at Stewart, when Oregon goes to play an actual good school? Mendenhall is from Shanahan's home state, we have scouts in the north and eastern confrences more then anywhere followed by the mid-west and central locations. The most western draft pick we have would be Chris Kuper from North Dakota, we do not draft from USC, Cal, Oregon, SD State, San Jose State, Fresno and so on. Look at the roster, go look and click on how acq. look at our draftees, most are from the eastern confrences...name one from the western confrences besides Elam? Especially all the new additions who we love, like Cutler, Marshall, Dumervil, Foxworth...

                            Secondly, when Shanahan looks at running backs do you really think he will go after a bowler like he had in Henry again? Stewart is a Henry clone, a Bettis style runner...While Mendenhall has been called a T.D. clone, why do you think Henry became a benched commodity? While Young has gotten the more of the carries lately...because Young fits the system better, getting tough yards is one thing, but being a playmaker is another. Henry's longest run was 33 yards, Dayne even did better then that here, while Young had several long runs, the longest of which was 50 yards. So when Shanahan looks at the halfbacks he wants the combination of one who can do what both brings, that would be Mendenhall over Jones and Stewart, McFadden would be the only other I would think he has rated higher then Mendenhall.

                            Thirdly, three of the top agencies have Mendenhall as a top 15 back, Stewart is still there as well, but Jones is falling and is a 1st Round pick, but he will be taken in the twenty-something area. Those same three agencies have all said that between Stewart and Mendenhall, that Mendenhall would be an elite while Stewart would be your standard big body franchise back, he will not scare people and just get yards, while defenses will game plan for Mendenhall, that and the fact he is from Illinois, Shanahan's home state...if he took Stewart over Mendenhall it would be a mistake. Just like I said we should not draft Moss, and well...enough said!





                            Moore has been climbing steadily and he has the upside the Broncos want, they are not going to keep drafting inflicted players and athletes to the roster every season, and that is the only way Harrison is drafted. I like Harrison from a player persepective, but Moore is a solid second round pick with day one talent, he is a run stuffer up there with the likes of Okam and a pass rusher up there with the likes of Ellis. Thomas though a good defensive tackle is a big boy, I think with his lack to rush he should be moved right next to Crowder or Ekuban shutting down the strong side, while Moore could be a lethal addition on the left side rushing with Dumervil or Moss. I am sorry you do not like him, but with the way we draft defensively from certain confrences and schools, the only other options are Okam from Texas, Red Bryant from Texas A&M and DeMario Pressley from North Carolina State.



                            Do you really think I want Caldwell over the likes of Burton, Bennet, Hocker or even Bess? I am not drafting MUG because I like the players best, yes I get lucky with Mendenhall because I like him and I know what he could bring, but also because he is a big possiblity. Dream said it best with his question, there are those who mock draft who they want the team to draft and those who they think the team will take. Florida is one of our biggest ties in the college ranks, Caldwell only short of Bennet or Kelly comes from a school with known ties. They will both be gone and if we could I would take Bennet from Vandy or Burton from Kentucky over this kid...I think he has the tangibles but he will not be an all-pro. All those with deep hopes of us drafting from Cal and USC need to realize we are more likely to draft from I-A schools then those powerhouses.



                            That is your opinion MUG but he is slated as a late 2nd Round Pick, but this is the year for hybrids and of all safeties entering the draft his ranked 12th overall, while corners who will be looked at as DB or transitional safeties from corner or linebacker there are about five or six with a higher draft grade...then he slips, look at Mike Jenkins from Central Florida...one hell of a cornerback, top 15 grade. He may be better suited to be a FS in the NFL then a corner and he has the tangibles. He is also an option over Phillips in round one, for all the Phillip fanatics!




                            Not many teams use the zone blocking scheme which this kid excels in, so I think your a bit off only in that he may be gone. I agree that he is one of the better tackles in the draft, but there will be many teams that overlook that because of the scheme, let alone he is told to have a very bad mean streak, some teams will pass on him. I think he may go in the third round, but he can fall...and if we get a receiver in free agency, then Oniel Cousins takes Caldwell's spot in the third! And he would be next to Mendenhall my favorite pick thus far...I do like Moore as well, but Cousins may be even a better fit then Harris in Denver's scheme.



                            Caulcrick is faster then Hillis with more muscle mass, at 260lbs. the only think Hillis may be better at is receiving...not a good way to base a need of rushing and pass blocking which Caulcrick is better graded at then both Lane and Hillis. Lane is a rushing fullback more like Alstott, and I think Lane will be a third rounder taken to be a halfback not a fullback, probably by the Steelers. While Hillis is smaller and more sound all around, I think Caulcrick being a Michigan product where we do have some ties will be taken right near Hillis and by Denver!



                            I was a hybrid player...

                            Woodyard is a double edged weapon he can boost special teams, he can play more then one spot in a need of relief via depth and that multi purposal reason is why he is so sound, what if Winborn went down from injury, or we had another string of injuries which hurt our safeties, would you rather we throw a corner to play safety or a hybrid who can knock the snot out of someone who has a forty of 4.41?



                            No...Eslinger will not make it in the league I feel, he is too light and Legursky can move very quickly for his size, he is the type of lineman you want to be the head of your monster offensive line! And he has not missed time due to injury and has that old-time toughness like Zimmerman and Nalen we really need. And Watkins is just a good depth addition, but a special teams nightmare, I think he would be our next Keith Burns if we get him, backup to all spots and just a sound leader and tough guy on special teams.



                            As far as I know because he never even entered training camp we do not get this pick. Plummer had to show up at least to camp for this trade to hold, since he did not then if I was you...I would not count on it!



                            I have it based off of where I think they will slide to in the end if it broke down, too many times have we said this player will be here or there only to slide, look at Dumervil, Thomas and several others...the fact is that when it is said and done many fall at least by a half round and gain by as much!
                            I wanted to quote for the massive acid trip effect!~

                            The region breakdown regarding Shanny's draft was very insightful and when I can CP for joo. I still believe Shanny will not put all his eggs in one basket anymore and draft that 1st round stud. He has a capable speedster that just needs to be paired with a capable bruiser. That's his philosophy and I don't see him changing.

                            You do have me warming up to Moore. I have been reading other boards and his stock is rising. He will be at the Senior Bowl so I will slate him as someone of interest to keep an eye on.

                            Other than that JUST SAY NO to Florida WR's!

                            Good Job!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Dream View Post
                              Denver's scouting area is split up into eight regions, and yes they scout PAC-10 schools. It's closer than anywhere else, and just because we don't have a lot of PAC-10, and coastal school players from the West does not mean we do not scout there. Denver is a spit from a majority of those schools, why would they not scout them. I give thanks to you referring me in your post, but I just had to clear that up. To assume that we don't do that because we have relatively few PAC-10 players, and western school players on this team would be false to do.
                              We do have scouts in all major college areas, but we do scout more heavily in the eastern and southwestern confrences due to ties...is that better Dream?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Dream View Post
                                That's what the deal was. It was a conditional pick. It was reported a while ago.
                                Damnit...Plummer you cost us even when your not in a jersey!!!

                                Thanks Dream...do you have a link so I can read the details?

                                Comment

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