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Lancane's Draft as of 1/3/08

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  • Dream
    replied
    Originally posted by JoRo View Post
    How does our number of scouts compare to other teams? Is that one of the possible reasons why we don't do as well in the draft until recently? I know the Bengals were notorious for their small scouting staff in the past and that was a factor in their horrible drafting.
    You know, I really wouldn't know because I've never looked - but after doing a quick glance over some AFC and NFC teams, it looks like we're the same, if not having a little more than others. We seem to have more people overlapping in areas (we have three guys overlapping in the Midwest because that's where Denver is close to) than other teams do.

    I think we have a good amount of scouts (8) [For college] along with Goodman, so that's nine resources to go out and get their own personal views on players. Along with that, almost every team in the NFL goes through Blesto for their scouting services (Redskins are an exception) and will purchase their reports and evaluations on players and cross reference the two in order to come up with a final grade on the player.

    Denver has a relatively new scouting staff this year, and we lost a good one in Ed Lambert (I think he's with the Texans now!) but we have some old timers on here. One thing that makes me worry is a conversation I had with Mike (SoCal on the Mane) about some of our scouts. During training camp, they are responsible to watch the practices and make some evaluations, but Bobby Beers (in charge of the West) was essentially screwing around all week not doing his job. Maybe a little inexperience and maybe just some of the guys we have is a problem.

    Then again, you have to factor in the Sundquist and Shanahan factor, which will always skew value and make things complicated.

    I know that Goodman said they only needed to see two or three games of a player to make an evaluation and I think that's pretty bad. For example, say they were scouting Jamaal Charles and they went to three games of his - and he struggled in two of them, but did well in another. His grade would be skewed then, despite the fact he's a top 75, perhaps top 50 talent in the draft. However, I am selling some of these people short - because they do a lot of work going and visiting schools and getting tape as well. They spend a lot of time into doing what they do, and in the end - I think it's the tendency for us to go after raw players with enormous potential rather than guys who are solid football players - the lunch pail types, who will bring it every Sunday, but not be All-Pro's.

    I think we take too many risks, and last year's draft with Moss and Thomas were a huge arrow in that direction. We gave up two third rounders, plus a few late-rounders to get those guys. What for? Above average production by Thomas, and an injury plagued defensive end who didn't even play well when healthy.

    Denver needs to start acquiring value, not pissing it down their leg.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoRo
    replied
    Originally posted by Dream


    Southwest and Midwest Regions - Eugene Armstrong
    West Region - Bobby Beers
    Midwest Region - Scott DiStefano
    Southeast - Jeff Goodman
    Northeast - Anthony Kelly
    Atlantic/East - Cal McCombs
    Northwest Midwest - Greg Miller
    Scouting Consultant (All Regions) - Cornell Green

    Jim Goodman heads all these guys, and he plays a huge role in the talent observation at the All Star games.

    Eight people, eight zones. Three of them overlap in the Midwest. Why? Denver's in that area. Each one represents a zone (Green is a consultant) and Goodman makes nine and can roam all over and heads these people. There's a scout per area, and the Midwest overlaps. Teams will overlap in the areas they're close to. It's simple.

    The fact is we have one scout based in every area, so I don't even know how "hardly" applies.

    I've had a great day, your post just raised an eyebrow because it really didn't make much sense. You've clarified yourself more, but the general premise of your posts (quoted above and elsewhere) aren't right. I agree with the affinity of SEC players, and the Midwest overlap (obviously, why would that be debatable) but in regarding the West region, not at all.

    How does our number of scouts compare to other teams? Is that one of the possible reasons why we don't do as well in the draft until recently? I know the Bengals were notorious for their small scouting staff in the past and that was a factor in their horrible drafting.

    Leave a comment:


  • lancane
    replied
    Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
    What concerns?

    He's the fastest RB in college arguably, he's a pass catching threat, he's good at blitz plickup, he can run between the tackles, and he's a homerun waiting to happen on any part of the football field.

    He probably isn't a first round talent at this point, but he isn't no slack. He's #2 on Mel Kiper's board of RBs (I realize Kiper's board doesn't involve Mendenhall, Charles, Jones, McFadden, Stewart, underclassmen...), but there isn't any reason why he can't be a quality second round steal that maybe sneaks into a late first round pick after the combine ala Joseph Addai style.
    Johnson's only real issues stem from some easy dropped passes even with his above average number of receptions, and his overall field vision. I think the biggest thing against him coming to Denver is that he is not a big enough, with Denver's system I would say he needs to add at least 15lbs.

    Leave a comment:


  • silkamilkamonic
    replied
    Originally posted by Momentum View Post
    CJ is not a first! Ive seen like all his college games. He is VERY fast and agile but there are still concerns if he can play in the NFL (just like... Reggie Bush but only the questions are bigger)
    What concerns?

    He's the fastest RB in college arguably, he's a pass catching threat, he's good at blitz plickup, he can run between the tackles, and he's a homerun waiting to happen on any part of the football field.

    He probably isn't a first round talent at this point, but he isn't no slack. He's #2 on Mel Kiper's board of RBs (I realize Kiper's board doesn't involve Mendenhall, Charles, Jones, McFadden, Stewart, underclassmen...), but there isn't any reason why he can't be a quality second round steal that maybe sneaks into a late first round pick after the combine ala Joseph Addai style.

    Leave a comment:


  • Momentum
    replied
    Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
    Change Mendenhall to Chris Johnson, and I would be a happy man with that draft.
    CJ is not a first! Ive seen like all his college games. He is VERY fast and agile but there are still concerns if he can play in the NFL (just like... Reggie Bush but only the questions are bigger)

    Leave a comment:


  • lancane
    replied
    Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
    Yea, 13 on the active roster.

    I was counting IR also, which really wasn't helping Denver's argument.
    That is such a pathetic statistic...makes you really wonder what our problem has been over the years...besides letting the few real good prospects go, there were way too many busts!

    Leave a comment:


  • silkamilkamonic
    replied
    Yea, 13 on the active roster.

    I was counting IR also, which really wasn't helping Denver's argument.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dream
    replied
    It's sixteen? Are you sure. I thought I counted 13 on the site's roster.

    Leave a comment:


  • silkamilkamonic
    replied
    Originally posted by Dream View Post

    Denver has what, 13 drafted players on their team? It's still pathetic.
    16. And I believe it's thee lowest draft % of players in the NFL.

    Denver has 10 undrafted free agents on the roster.

    Leave a comment:


  • lancane
    replied
    Originally posted by Dream
    The number of West Coast school players we've drafted in Shanahan's tenure, or undrafted players we've picked up during his time here isn't opinion. It's fact, and it's there. Like I said, I'm in agreement and I understand the positions given by Shanahan and Sundquist in the schools we have connections with, and the players they have an affinity for [SEC], but your opinion that we don't take a good shake at the kids from the West Coast is just a false one. Your first posts seemed to indicate that we payed little attention out there, and you stated Stewart and Ellis wouldn't be Broncos because we don't "scout" hard out West. Those aren't really good reasons for them not being on the team, or being on our radar. It's just an opinion that doesn't really have much base, considering there are eight regions this team covers, and that happens to be one of them.

    The area is close and convenient, I don't even see why this is being debated. There's no reason why we wouldn't scout there.

    Furthermore you stated this:




    Southwest and Midwest Regions - Eugene Armstrong
    West Region - Bobby Beers
    Midwest Region - Scott DiStefano
    Southeast - Jeff Goodman
    Northeast - Anthony Kelly
    Atlantic/East - Cal McCombs
    Northwest Midwest - Greg Miller
    Scouting Consultant (All Regions) - Cornell Green

    Jim Goodman heads all these guys, and he plays a huge role in the talent observation at the All Star games.

    Eight people, eight zones. Three of them overlap in the Midwest. Why? Denver's in that area. Each one represents a zone (Green is a consultant) and Goodman makes nine and can roam all over and heads these people. There's a scout per area, and the Midwest overlaps. Teams will overlap in the areas they're close to. It's simple.

    The fact is we have one scout based in every area, so I don't even know how "hardly" applies.

    I've had a great day, your post just raised an eyebrow because it really didn't make much sense. You've clarified yourself more, but the general premise of your posts (quoted above and elsewhere) aren't right. I agree with the affinity of SEC players, and the Midwest overlap (obviously, why would that be debatable) but in regarding the West region, not at all.
    Okay then I see your point, I still think we are bias to schools with ties, especially out east...

    I just thought you were having a real bad day!!! Hahaha...

    Thanks for clearing it up, I think we just got our lines crossed, my fault - Cane

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncosTX77
    replied
    Originally posted by lancane View Post
    Hahaha...I am trying, Dream and I tend to get along most days...but I think Dream is aggitated by something, and the net is not the best place to be if your ticked off, you tend to be a bit aggressive towards people!

    Now give me a crowbar so I can hit you TX! ....just kidding!


    Leave a comment:


  • lancane
    replied
    Originally posted by BroncosTX77
    Can't we all just get along?!?!

    Hahaha...I am trying, Dream and I tend to get along most days...but I think Dream is aggitated by something, and the net is not the best place to be if your ticked off, you tend to be a bit aggressive towards people!

    Now give me a crowbar so I can hit you TX! ....just kidding!

    Leave a comment:


  • lancane
    replied
    Originally posted by Dream View Post
    Not to the exact Post article(s), but here:

    http://www.draftinsiders.com/node/35

    I'm pretty confident we'll get that other pick. I think Armstrong was talking about it (the selections we had) the other day, and I know that was mentioned.
    Thanks...what did Armstrong say exactly do you remember?

    Leave a comment:


  • lancane
    replied
    Originally posted by Dream View Post
    Denver has connections all over the place; all teams do. Sundquist was on record saying he was a fan of big school players, especially SEC players because they know what it's like to play in the big games in front of huge crowds ever Saturday. You implied in multiple posts that Denver doesn't select players from the Western area (coastal) of the country and that is simply not true. PAC, WAC, etc. They're all there. Denver may have connections at schools like Florida (they did at Vanderbilt, but Ed Lambert to my knowledge is no longer with us) and in other areas - but that doesn't mean they overlook top programs in the PAC just for that reason.

    Denver has what, 13 drafted players on their team? It's still pathetic. You didn't really have a base for what you had to say, but just went with a typical "the proof is in the pudding" -- what proof? Almost every player we draft gets away. Yeah, Denver has an extreme affinity for SEC players (self-admitted) - but that doesn't mean we don't scout certain areas, or that there is preference over the other. We have the resources, and we do whatever we can to find the best players that fit this team. It doesn't matter where you are from. Most of the big football schools are out that way. Of course it's typical that a lot of selections would be from that area - however to count out players from out draft board and predict that they won't be on this team because of an unfounded, baseless belief that we don't scout certain areas is ludicrous.
    I just admitted we scout all areas including the southwestern areas, which is not only the BIG XII but Mountain West and so forth, but we do have a known affinity as you said to SEC players...by why so defensive Dream? Unless you are a scout for the organization, we have overlooked a lot of talent from western schools such as Cal, Oregon, USC, Stanford, Fresno State and the few we have gone with have left a very bad taste in fans' mouths such as Ernster and Lelie. You say what I believe is ludicrous, I believe your assinine attitude is unfounded and your a bit too defensive in what is very obvious. We do not scout in a normal fashion per Shanahan himself, we look to talk with those we have ties with...and Denver has more ties to the Big XII, Big Ten and the SEC then any other confrences...sorry if you do not like what I believe Dream and that is your choice. I am just pointing out what tends to be very obvious...

    Leave a comment:


  • Dream
    replied
    Originally posted by lancane View Post
    Damnit...Plummer you cost us even when your not in a jersey!!!

    Thanks Dream...do you have a link so I can read the details?
    Not to the exact Post article(s), but here:

    http://www.draftinsiders.com/node/35

    I'm pretty confident we'll get that other pick. I think Armstrong was talking about it (the selections we had) the other day, and I know that was mentioned.

    Leave a comment:

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