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Denver May be in Trouble at the 12th pick!

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  • Denver May be in Trouble at the 12th pick!

    Before people wonder why I said “how is Denver at trouble at pick number 12" its simple if you think about it logically for a moment. Number 12 spot puts us at odd position, if you take a look at it this way, were virtually number 2 in the mid level of the draft. Where top of the draft is picks 1-10, mid level is 11-21, bottom level is 22-32. I guess most if not all of you have already figured out so im just stating the obvious for most. With that being said I’ll explain why Denver is in a pinch when it comes to number 12.

    First thing the only team I can see trading out of the top 10 is Patriots, Unless a CB presents itself as a top 10 contender their San Francisco round pick will go to a different team, for them the only four top CB in the first round are Mike Jenkins (South Florida), Leodis McKelvin(Troy), Antoine Cason (Arizona) and Reggie Smith(Oklahoma) who may be stuck in the mid-to bottom level of the draft. Also with the idea of Randy Moss going the signing of Wide Receiver DeSean Jackson (California) may prove a cheaper price to take then keeping Randy Moss, and playing a guessing game on how long he has. Now while a unexpected turn in taking Jackson at the number 6 spot will leave you puzzled, it may not depending on witch team takes as a CB who really needs a WR can work out for both parties with some trade maneuvering, the Patriots are deep at WR talent so taking Jackson will really raise some eyebrows. Yet lets not discount this kind of trade of a player for another player during the draft we’ve seen that kind of trade before, remember the Manning- Rivers trade.

    So what do we do with our 12th pick, we cant move up without us costing an arm or a leg, buying the do whatever to bring “_________” cannot work this draft, too many holes too little draft spots. So with that said how do we choose our player at the 12th spot. Like most it’s a very big line between those who want Offense and those who say we must draft Defense. So here’s the skinny on some things people may or may not have overlooked. The Bronco Defense, as the passing of the Orange Crush, the Denver Broncos have not had anything that resembles a Ravens or Bears type defense. We do not have the coaching staff to do such a feat. That is not really a knock on Slowik but Im sure some would love to run the guy out of town even before the start of the 2008-2009 regular season. So what does that tell us, the overall philosophy of the Defense has changed yet a gain. Players on the D-line like Okam who’s a NT are not needed as Bates is long gone, yet a stronger UT to play along side Marcus Thomas should be looked at. Yet with such a young D-line that is a bit inexperienced wouldn’t that hurt the cohesiveness of the defensive line? Yes it does in a degree, that’s why drafting a DT at our number 12th pick would do us a massive dis-service. Best DT in Free Agency is Corey Willams of Green Bay, his veteran leadership and voice will harden our D-line. I don’t think a rookie DT who’s just got the back of his ears wet can do this in a short time.

    So with that being said DT may be solved just by that, signing a FA DT leaving getting a DT in round 1 not a need. So next would be Safety, John Lynch is by now running on fumes, signing a Free Agent Safety may put a stop gap measure but that would be tying in more money into the secondary getting Safety with our round 12 pick sounds like a good idea but is it really? One of the best FS out of College is Kenny Phillips but he’s rated into the top 5... trading up to him would be costly, so we will look elsewhere, a second day pick at FS or SS may happen.
    Last edited by BroncoKazuki; 01-24-2008, 03:12 AM. Reason: some slight edits
    McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

    Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

  • #2
    Continue

    Everyone is now wondering what we will do with Line Backer, shop in the FA for a Middle Line Backer, draft one, draft an replacement for Ian Gold? What will we do Right now the Line Backer position is right now in slight limbo. Dan Connor would be an major upgrade for MIKE but will he warrant that 12th pick and how will DJ take the move back to his natural position. Still Even though getting Connor would be a slam dunk for those who want us to draft defense, yet not those who were hoping for a DT. I do think if we do go for a Line Backer it will either be in the mid 3rd - 4th rounds or Free Agency, just to bring in leadership, unless DJ can step up and carry the torch and be just that... a Leader.


    Now my fourth coming reason why drafting Offense is a must. Remember the 2006 season when half of if not majority of the Broncos fan base on this board lead by Broncos_mtman for the benching of Jake Plummer due to poor production of the offense. Comes in Jay Cutler in the last part of the 2006 brings up the 17.6 ppg average to 25.5 ppg average. Enter’s Jay’s First year as a starter and the Broncos Offense is kept at a 20 point average this year, how come I mean Jay came in did well as a year 2 1st time starter, Marshall, Scheff and Stokley all produced, even Javon before his injury did well.

    The O-line was good until injuries nailed them where did the fault lie.... hm that’s it the Running Game ! Wait isn’t that why we brought in Travis Henry? Sure if he could stay he healthy and away from the green leaves. We paid good money for Henry passed on a RB last year for the sake of the defense and we could not produce in the Red zone of all places where its mainly Running Back Territory. Now some have seen this as its raised a flag hense the movement not to draft fodder in the late rounds. The question is does the RB we want will rise to in range or do we gotta move up. Stewart may end up in the top 10 pushing Mendenhall out near us, or they might both get pushed out leaving both near the mid-bottom. So Drafting down looks good.

    Hey wait a second! Its been 4 years since a team has drafted down, as stated by Cugel it hasn’t been done, yet that’s what they said about a team going 16-0 in the regular season. Trading down will have more benefits then losses. Yet we have to be willing to do so, the age of getting 6th round, no-name running backs by committee is over. It showed it didn’t help this year with Cutler, its time to get Cutler a franchise back.

    The Offensive line- with Lepis(sp?) Retired Harris will get his chance to start LT, some if not all have questions but if Lepis and the coaches say he can start then who are we to argue. Yet two more players are ready to retire, Nalen and Hamilton are in due to be replaced, Getting a round 1 OT would be great, but with the style of our O-line plays is it worth getting a OT at round 1 and having that player sit on the pine, where we can go into round 2 and possibly draft a OT that has good overall talent just like a round 1 OT but at a cheaper price. I think this would be wise as the zone blocking scheme takes time (unless that player did ZB in college) or if the player absorbs it fast can he start. As of right now round 2 for OT/OG would be smart move. Anthony Collins (Kansas) Carl Nicks (Nebraska) Oniel Cousins (Texas-El Paso), Pedro Sosa (Rutgers), Chad Rineheart (Norther Iowa) are OT/OG in 2nd to 5th rounds we can pick up


    Wide Receiver - With Javon calling out his team, the emergence of Brandon Marshall, and Javon being injured, drafting a WR would be an insurance policy just in case ‘The Javon’ gets injured but trading Walker would benefit us and the team he’s on. We get a player at half the cost, whos younger, healthy and less cocky. Javon’s injury has shorten his careers span and paying him the 5 million he’s due doesn’t sit well when I try looking at it. WR like Earl Bennett (Vanderbilt) Mario Manningham (Michigan), Eddy Royal (Virginia Tech) etc.. are all 2nd and 3rd round picks that can fill out well at our number 2 slot. So is it 5mil on a declining WR or drafting a rookie who has long career upside.

    In closing, going Offense and trading down may have benefits that may nab us a few picks, trading players who want out of Denver will be a good idea, drafting Offense early and Defense later will be better this year as the DT draft talent is split between starters and depth. Next years draft is when we should pull the trigger for a DT, but right now we need to rebuild the run game or we’ll go at 8-8 next year. Remember it took a RB to bring an 8-8 team to a 13-3 team and 2 SB’s even though he was drafted in the 6th round it was a virtual fluke!
    McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

    Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BroncoKazuki View Post
      So next would be Safety, John Lynch is by now running on fumes, signing a Free Agent Safety may put a stop gap measure but that would be tying in more money into the secondary getting Safety with our round 12 pick sounds like a good idea but is it really? One of the best FS out of College is Kenny Phillips but he’s rated into the top 5... trading up to him would be costly, so we will look elsewhere, a second day pick at FS or SS may happen.
      I'm pretty sure that at this time, Kenny Phillips is not rated into the top five, or even in the top 10. He's the top saftey prospect coming out and I could possibly see him being picked up in the top 10, but for sure not top 5. Things could change, and I don't know too much about many players in the draft, but I'm pretty sure Kenny Phillips isn't a top 5 prospect.
      sigpic


      Comment


      • #4
        I think we trade down to somewhere around the 18-22 spot if we can. We then take the best RB available, Stewart or Mendenhall should be available.

        This trade down will give us an extra pick in the mid-late 2nd round.

        We then take Philip Wheeler with our 2nd round pick and either a DT or WR with our additional 2nd rounder, depending on the best player available for one of those positions in that spot.

        Then our 4th and 5tn rounders can be used on O-Linemen, a safety and either a WR or DT, depending on what we do with our extra second rounder.

        Only player we take at #12 should be Ellis IMO, but if he's gone as expected I'll be very disappointed if we don't trade down.

        Can you imagine a first day of

        1 - Mendenhall/Stewart
        2a - Wheeler
        2b - Earl Bennett

        Two great additional weapons for Cutler which basically sets our offense for years to come and allows them to grow together?

        A stud LB to pair with DJ.

        Would be a fantastic draft, IMO.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Schism View Post
          I think we trade down to somewhere around the 18-22 spot if we can. We then take the best RB available, Stewart or Mendenhall should be available.

          This trade down will give us an extra pick in the mid-late 2nd round.

          We then take Philip Wheeler with our 2nd round pick and either a DT or WR with our additional 2nd rounder, depending on the best player available for one of those positions in that spot.

          Then our 4th and 5tn rounders can be used on O-Linemen, a safety and either a WR or DT, depending on what we do with our extra second rounder.

          Only player we take at #12 should be Ellis IMO, but if he's gone as expected I'll be very disappointed if we don't trade down.

          Can you imagine a first day of

          1 - Mendenhall/Stewart
          2a - Wheeler
          2b - Earl Bennett

          Two great additional weapons for Cutler which basically sets our offense for years to come and allows them to grow together?

          A stud LB to pair with DJ.

          Would be a fantastic draft, IMO.
          I agree with you! Except I am higher on LB Curtis Lofton.

          Comment


          • #6
            You completely forgot Aqib Talib. Im pretty sure hell e a first round pick and probably the Pats first round pick.

            The Broncos could pick up Dizon on the second day to replace Gold.
            Dont believe me? Check out the scouting reports on him from the senior bowl. Once he got out of the forgotten time zone and some people actually saw him, they were very impressed.
            ___________

            I don't understand why everyone thinks drafting defense early is some sort of shift in philosophy. You can find offensive production in the late rounds. Tom Brady? 6th Round. BMarsh? 4th round. TD was a six rounder. Good defenders go early.

            Drafting defensive players doesn't mean were going for the type of defense that gives up 12 points all season. It means our defense is in such shambles because of Denver's craptastic drafting for six years, that we NEED first day picks to make it effective.

            Last season, with (essentially) a rookie QB, a second year WR, 2 OL starters gone, our #1 receiver out most of the year, and our starting RB injured most of the year, we still managed to be at the top in most offensive categories. Of course we couldn't score, but that is due to the play of the line as much as anything.

            So honestly, if we draft offense on day one, I REALLY hope that its lineman, and we don't pull an Al Davis and just grab some flashy guy we don' need.

            Look at the Pats again. They have an All-Star QB, and an All Star line. NO ONE had heard of Wes Welker before this year, and if he didnt have Brady, no one would have.

            We dont need a flashy RB, or a big name WR for our offense. We need a QB, which we have, and a line. Which were trying to get.

            So that was alot of rambling that can be summed up by saying "Defense Defense Defense" Defense wins championships. Brady played like crap against SD, and the pats DEFENSE stepped up big time. The Giants, are in because of their DEFENSE. Remember 05 when we went to the AFCCG? Our defense did very well that season. Think about how many game changing plays Champ had that season vs this one.

            Defense, Defense, Defense.
            sigpic

            And THAT'S, the Cosmic Perspective.

            Comment


            • #7
              12th Pick

              the best thing to do is to STAY THERE OR TRADE DOWN AND GET MORE PICKS, some team will want to get the 12th pick so the broncos should stay put and see what offers come their way.

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree that the 12th Pick isn't a ideal pick for Denver because both Dorsey/Ellis will be gone.

                Our 1st Priority is fixing the 30th Rated Defense against the run.

                I agree we have to sign either Corey Williams or Randy Starks to bring some Veteran experience at DT.

                I have a easy way to fix the defense.
                ____________________________________________

                Denver trades its 12th pick to Dallas for its 1st(22nd),2nd and 3rd Round Picks.

                22nd Pick ---Pat Sims---6'4" 315lbs Big/Fast/Mean DT from the SEC. He is a junior and most likely a top 10 pick next year if he stayed. With Sims/Williams/Thomas/McKinnely we are SET at DT for the next 3-4 years. Case closed.

                2nd Round Pick----Erin Henderson----LB 6'3" 243lbs Tacking Machine to pair with DJ and Winborn or Webster.

                2nd Round Pick(Dal)---DeSean Morgan----Safety from NC State. 6'1" 205lbs Another Junior who had 117 tackles this year and is cleary exactly the kind of player Denver needs. With Lynch coming back(Most likely) and Abdulah getting better Morgan can come in and be a great player for the Broncos.

                3rd Round Pick(DAl)
                --Eddie Royal---WR/PR---- Excellent WR and Punter returner

                4th Round Pick---Duane Brown----Tackle 6'5" 305lbs Excellent tackle who is very mobile(former TE) and will be excellent player to learn ZBS.

                4th Round Pick----Matt Forte-----RB--6'2" 222lbs Thumper who is big enough to run inside/Selvin Young can run outside.

                5th Round Pick----Kevin Robinson---WR/KR This guy is a excellent KR and WR.

                5th Round Pick----Durant Brooks-----Punter GTECH---A good punter is HUGE in Field Position.

                7th Round Pick----Glen Sharpe---CB Miami

                7th Round Pick----Chauncey Washington RB USC.

                We address our Defense in all 3 Levels.

                DT- Pat Sims
                LB- Erin Henderson
                S- DeSean Morgan

                We address our Offense

                Tackle----Duane Brown
                WR-------Eddie Royal/Kevin Robinson
                RB--------Matt Forte/C.Washington

                Any Thoughts????

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Botan View Post
                  I'm pretty sure that at this time, Kenny Phillips is not rated into the top five, or even in the top 10. He's the top saftey prospect coming out and I could possibly see him being picked up in the top 10, but for sure not top 5. Things could change, and I don't know too much about many players in the draft, but I'm pretty sure Kenny Phillips isn't a top 5 prospect.

                  Phillips will go number 7 to the Patriots if they can't trade down, if they do then he will either go number 9 (Bengals) or 10(Saints)

                  I like the idea of trading down 6 or 7 spots and landing the Best RB left!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't know why people would think that the Broncos are in a bad spot with the #12 pick. With that pick they are going to have an opportunity to get a player with a lot of talent. They could have a shot at Keith Rivers, Ryan Clady(although, ESPN's Scouts, Inc has him rated as the 7th ranked prospect), Sam Baker, Kenny Phillips, Desean Jackson, or Malcolm Kelly.

                    I would love to see them get Keith Rivers, assuming they don't sign a middle linebacker in free agency. A move like that would probably mean moving DJ back to the weak side, therefore making Rivers unnecessary.

                    Hey wait a second! Its been 4 years since a team has drafted down, as stated by Cugel it hasn’t been done, yet that’s what they said about a team going 16-0 in the regular season.
                    Cugel was talking about teams in the top ten trading out of the top ten. That's what doesn't happen very often, if ever. So don't expect the Patsies to it either. Scouts, Inc has Mike Jenkins graded at 95. With that grade, if the NFL scouts agree with it, the Patsies will certainly consider taking him at the #7 spot. Todd McShay has the Patsies taking Jenkins at that spot in his mock draft.

                    If the Broncos decide to draft offense, I would love to see them get Clady or Baker. Both have been said to fit a zone blocking scheme and they clearly have a bunch of talent. It's always better to go for the talent. It's time the Broncos stop trying to use lesser talent at the most important positions. I've even said before that I would love for them to take offensive linemen in the first two rounds even if it means dumping the zone blocking scheme. Well there's at least two sure first rounders that fit the zone blocking scheme. Shanahan should get whichever one is available at #12.

                    I'm not interested in seeing the Broncos trade down. I think there will be plenty of talent available at positions they could use if they stay where they are.
                    My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                    You Mad Bro?
                    Don’t Be A Mean Girl

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      how is it that everybody says that now when bates is gone, we don´t need a strong defensive tackle?? did you even watch one game last season?? a player that can create and/or beat a doubleteam would be a great addition to the broncos roster. I would love to have Sedrick Ellis in the first round, but will settle for a OL.

                      somepeople want a RB in round 1, but that would be wasting a pick, with the OL we have right now, the RB wouldn´t be doing any better than selvin Young out of the backfield.first two rounds is for OL/DL i hope

                      and with DL i mean DT, we have 3 yound hungry DEs, just hope that Ekuban re-signs with broncos so we can kick Engelburger out of here!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by broncofansd View Post
                        I agree that the 12th Pick isn't a ideal pick for Denver because both Dorsey/Ellis will be gone.

                        Our 1st Priority is fixing the 30th Rated Defense against the run.

                        I agree we have to sign either Corey Williams or Randy Starks to bring some Veteran experience at DT.

                        I have a easy way to fix the defense.
                        ____________________________________________

                        Denver trades its 12th pick to Dallas for its 1st(22nd),2nd and 3rd Round Picks.

                        22nd Pick ---Pat Sims---6'4" 315lbs Big/Fast/Mean DT from the SEC. He is a junior and most likely a top 10 pick next year if he stayed. With Sims/Williams/Thomas/McKinnely we are SET at DT for the next 3-4 years. Case closed.

                        2nd Round Pick----Erin Henderson----LB 6'3" 243lbs Tacking Machine to pair with DJ and Winborn or Webster.

                        2nd Round Pick(Dal)---DeSean Morgan----Safety from NC State. 6'1" 205lbs Another Junior who had 117 tackles this year and is cleary exactly the kind of player Denver needs. With Lynch coming back(Most likely) and Abdulah getting better Morgan can come in and be a great player for the Broncos.

                        3rd Round Pick(DAl)
                        --Eddie Royal---WR/PR---- Excellent WR and Punter returner

                        4th Round Pick---Duane Brown----Tackle 6'5" 305lbs Excellent tackle who is very mobile(former TE) and will be excellent player to learn ZBS.

                        4th Round Pick----Matt Forte-----RB--6'2" 222lbs Thumper who is big enough to run inside/Selvin Young can run outside.

                        5th Round Pick----Kevin Robinson---WR/KR This guy is a excellent KR and WR.

                        5th Round Pick----Durant Brooks-----Punter GTECH---A good punter is HUGE in Field Position.

                        7th Round Pick----Glen Sharpe---CB Miami

                        7th Round Pick----Chauncey Washington RB USC.

                        We address our Defense in all 3 Levels.

                        DT- Pat Sims
                        LB- Erin Henderson
                        S- DeSean Morgan

                        We address our Offense

                        Tackle----Duane Brown
                        WR-------Eddie Royal/Kevin Robinson
                        RB--------Matt Forte/C.Washington

                        Any Thoughts????
                        I think that'd be a pretty solid draft. You get just about everything you need. I'm not sure about Duane Brown though, I think an OT should be given top priority behind a DT this year.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The #12 spot can be a very strong position for Denver. All that needs to happen is for a top player to slide a little bit, which happens most drafts. Other teams get excited and want to move up to grab this sliding player and may over pay.

                          We did it to get Cutler and teams usually try to move up to the 10 to 15 selection range because a player they deem too expensive has now slid down far enough to jump on. We'll see what happens on draft day but the #12 position is not bad.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The Pats won't take Phillips. They have James Sanders and Brandon Meriweather, along with Rodney Harrison, at safety, and they like all of them. If they don't trade down, I could see them taking Leodis McKelvin. Most of their corners are FAs to be, including Asante Samuel and Randall Gay, and Samuel might want a huge payday that they don't want to deliver. McKelvin has been lights out at the Senior Bowl practices and could jump Mike Jenkins as the top-rated corner when it's said and done.
                            Last edited by Max Power; 01-24-2008, 10:52 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gr3yStreet View Post
                              You completely forgot Aqib Talib. Im pretty sure hell e a first round pick and probably the Pats first round pick.

                              The Broncos could pick up Dizon on the second day to replace Gold.
                              Dont believe me? Check out the scouting reports on him from the senior bowl. Once he got out of the forgotten time zone and some people actually saw him, they were very impressed.
                              ___________

                              I don't understand why everyone thinks drafting defense early is some sort of shift in philosophy. You can find offensive production in the late rounds. Tom Brady? 6th Round. BMarsh? 4th round. TD was a six rounder. Good defenders go early.

                              Drafting defensive players doesn't mean were going for the type of defense that gives up 12 points all season. It means our defense is in such shambles because of Denver's craptastic drafting for six years, that we NEED first day picks to make it effective.

                              Last season, with (essentially) a rookie QB, a second year WR, 2 OL starters gone, our #1 receiver out most of the year, and our starting RB injured most of the year, we still managed to be at the top in most offensive categories. Of course we couldn't score, but that is due to the play of the line as much as anything.

                              So honestly, if we draft offense on day one, I REALLY hope that its lineman, and we don't pull an Al Davis and just grab some flashy guy we don' need.

                              Look at the Pats again. They have an All-Star QB, and an All Star line. NO ONE had heard of Wes Welker before this year, and if he didnt have Brady, no one would have.

                              We dont need a flashy RB, or a big name WR for our offense. We need a QB, which we have, and a line. Which were trying to get.

                              So that was alot of rambling that can be summed up by saying "Defense Defense Defense" Defense wins championships. Brady played like crap against SD, and the pats DEFENSE stepped up big time. The Giants, are in because of their DEFENSE. Remember 05 when we went to the AFCCG? Our defense did very well that season. Think about how many game changing plays Champ had that season vs this one.

                              Defense, Defense, Defense.
                              Defense may be in shambles but so is the Running Game,

                              Even though we massed 1900 yards we did it with 3 RB's and not one broke a 1000 yards not one !

                              I do agree Defense is a Must but so is the run game and Offensive Line. I dont think just because a RB is in the mid round draft is Flashy. The only RB i can consider Flashy is McFadden.

                              You do have a point, Pats defense held up against the Bolts, but thats due to the core of the offense and the play style they deploy witch is an all out air attack.

                              I do stick by that in order to have a solid run game we must get rid of the Running Back by committee. We need that RB that will be in the 1st round mid draft, we need our run game to produce. The Defense will fall into place but right now its so in-experienced in the front 7. People in the forum are willing to overlook that and say 'we need more talent now so sell everything to get _______' Im exaggerating but you get where I'm comming from.

                              People who think Henry can be durable and be that every down back, are really overshooting the point. Henry at best is medicore, at his worse he's a bust, the guy was average before he got here and he's not even average as a Bronco.

                              The three glaring holes I see on the offensive side are the RB, OG and WR positions. Im willing to give Harris a chance we did draft him high last year!

                              The glaring holes i see on the defense are Veteran Leadership in the front 7 or just leadership in general. A Safety, DT and OLB need to be addressed as well. Williams will be a good pick up for the short term, letting us get our DT next year.


                              Also some sites have Phillips projected a in the top 10 and some in the top 5. This is all pre-Combine.


                              I do stand that at number 12 is not ideal with our predicament. As we have many holes. Miami, Atlanta, Oakland, those above us, they need or want that blue chip player because it brings the fans back to them, gets them off their backs for one more season.
                              Last edited by BroncoKazuki; 01-24-2008, 11:40 AM.
                              McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

                              Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

                              Comment

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