Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

New 'Triplets' Broncos Best Foundation

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • New 'Triplets' Broncos Best Foundation

    The most dramatic re-construction of a great NFL football team that I have ever witnessed was conducted by Jimmy Johnson and his work with the Dallas Cowboys of the early 1990's. This was probably due to the fact that Johnson aquired so many draft picks, that his methodical blue print unfolded seemingly before our eyes. Johnson inherited the lowly Cowboys after they went 3-13 in Tom Landry's last season, and in four short seasons, built the perfect beast, culminating in a 52-17 win in Super Bowl XXVII over an outstanding Buffalo Bills team. The first piece to Johnson's Championship puzzle was QB Troy Aikman who he selected first overall in the 1990 Draft.

    The Cowboys also had some key parts in place when Johnson took over with WR Michael Irvin, OT Mark Tuinea, DE Jim Jeffcoat and S Bill Bates. Irvin in particular had proven himself to be a Pro Bowl calibur talent, and the second of what would become Dallas' three-headed monster.

    In Johnson's second Draft, the selection of Florida RB Emmitt Smith completed the trifecta.

    The rest as they say, is history. You can talk about alot of things concerning the Cowboys and their success, but usually the topic of conversation always seems to revert bakc to the 'Triplets.'

    The Broncos themselves only becamne Champions when they had a confluence of weapons in the form of John Elway, Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe and Rod Smith.

    In 1999, Peyton Manning joined Marvin Harrison, and a year later took Edgerrin James to give the Colts their version of the triplets. Before the Colts finally won their Super Bowl, James was repaced by another first round Draft choice at RB, Joseph Addai.

    To me, the bottom line is this. If you have a great QB like I believe Jay Cutler is going to become, and he has a big time receiving weapon like Brandon Marshall, who I also believe is on the verge of great things, a big-time RB is the next obvious step.

    To me, that makes the Denver Broncos first round Draft pick in this Draft an obvious one in Oregon RB Jonathan Stewart (5'11"-230) or Illinois RB Rashard Mendenhall (5'11"-225), but the choice is a running back. It is the quickest way to give the Broncos great Offensive balance, which in the end is what separates good NFL teams from great ones.

    When you add in the fact that TE Tony Scheffler looks like he will be a player (our Jay Novacek?), that Selvin Young might very well be the perfect backup RB for the Broncos, and a dominant blocking TE in Daniel Graham is already on board, it does not take very much imagination to see that Mike Shanahan will have as many (young) weapons at his disposal than at any time since those Super Bowl's of the late 90's.

    So, debate it all you want to and decide who you prefer more (I'll take Jonathan Stewart), Stewart or Mendenhall, but a big time RB is the only choice for the Denver Broncos with the #12 pick of the 2008 Draft.

  • #2
    CP coming if people cant figure this out or end up throwing the "draft defense first, or we'll go 3-10 next year" again im seriously gonna wonder why.

    Only ONE team... Count it ONE team ever won a SB with defense alone and that was the 2001 Ravens.

    the last best Defensive team were the Bears and they Lost to the Colts in the Super Bowl.


    So this year is our chance to get the pick of the litter in RB. Its time to give Jay another weapon and complete the trifecta !
    McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

    Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

    Comment


    • #3
      Good original post one little fact when the broncos won back to back superbowls with Elway, Davis, and Smith only one of those weapons was a first round pick Elway. You do not need to spend a first round pick on a RB.

      Further more the thing that made the "triplets" great was a great offensive Line the thing that made broncos great was offensive line. All great offenses have a domiant Oline
      if man is 5 and jay cutler is 6 then that must make john elway 7

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jojo187 View Post
        Good original post one little fact when the broncos won back to back superbowls with Elway, Davis, and Smith only one of those weapons was a first round pick Elway. You do not need to spend a first round pick on a RB.

        Further more the thing that made the "triplets" great was a great offensive Line the thing that made broncos great was offensive line. All great offenses have a domiant Oline
        But Shanahan admitted that when he drafted Davis it was a virtual fluke, if Davis had more spotlight he may have in fact ended up a 1st rounder. Remember Davis played behind someone witch didnt give him enough light.

        Rod well he's Rod and we'll never find someone like that in a UFA at all.
        McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

        Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

        Comment


        • #5
          The Broncos front office has proven the ability to find RB talent late in the draft or in free agency they dont need to use a 1st round pick on RB to find a good one. Also they already have a good running back combo with henry and Young.
          if man is 5 and jay cutler is 6 then that must make john elway 7

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BroncoKazuki View Post
            CP coming if people cant figure this out or end up throwing the "draft defense first, or we'll go 3-10 next year" again im seriously gonna wonder why.

            Only ONE team... Count it ONE team ever won a SB with defense alone and that was the 2001 Ravens.

            the last best Defensive team were the Bears and they Lost to the Colts in the Super Bowl.


            So this year is our chance to get the pick of the litter in RB. Its time to give Jay another weapon and complete the trifecta !
            I wouldn't say "draft defense first" but I would say our D-line and linebacking needs a serious overhaul before we can be anything close to a contender.

            Our offense this season showed so much promise and potential...and they put up huge amounts of points during some key games...

            but then our defense fell flat and did not protect our offensive production.

            However....and here's what I think you're getting at. Our offense isn't at full potential quite yet either. The obvious weaknesses reside in the line... Cutler needs more protection...even if this kid gets a few more seconds in the pocket because we draft a key lineman that can block, then I believe Cutler will be deadly.

            Basically, the line on both sides of the ball needs the most work. If we can draft some talented kids to build both of our lines on, we will be well on our way.

            A key to a successful running game is not only the talented runner, but a line that will block and open up key holes for him to be able to use his talent in.

            Our tight ends have the potential to help develop that blocking scheme....but right now that's really all we've got.

            Basically a successful draft would be a running back, and a guy on the O-Line, and another on D-Line, that we feel we can develop into great players...

            I dunno, after that maybe a linebacker and maybe even a fullback to help open up lanes...
            sigpic

            DISCLAIMER: MY REVIEWS OFTEN CONTAIN SPOILERS. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jojo187 View Post
              The Broncos front office has proven the ability to find RB talent late in the draft or in free agency they dont need to use a 1st round pick on RB to find a good one. Also they already have a good running back combo with henry and Young.
              Our last best back was.... drum roll please... Clinton Portis and he was a 1st round back in the 2nd round. He got pushed out.


              Where's the all mighty RB that we found in the 5th 6th and 7th rounds.... not on the team or flat out faded from the league.

              Henry was a FA bust and Bowlen has now put the choke-chain on Shanahan for doing the same stupid thing all over again.

              Bowlen will be pressing Shanahan to find someone that can be looked at as a Franchise Back.

              The backs we have now are all utter trash that are just products of the system. Just like the Trash Backs we had before them and so on.

              The only best back post TD was Portis, the rest have be thrown out and been wasted picks.

              that is all.
              McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

              Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
                I wouldn't say "draft defense first" but I would say our D-line and linebacking needs a serious overhaul before we can be anything close to a contender.

                Our offense this season showed so much promise and potential...and they put up huge amounts of points during some key games...

                but then our defense fell flat and did not protect our offensive production.

                However....and here's what I think you're getting at. Our offense isn't at full potential quite yet either. The obvious weaknesses reside in the line... Cutler needs more protection...even if this kid gets a few more seconds in the pocket because we draft a key lineman that can block, then I believe Cutler will be deadly.

                Basically, the line on both sides of the ball needs the most work. If we can draft some talented kids to build both of our lines on, we will be well on our way.

                A key to a successful running game is not only the talented runner, but a line that will block and open up key holes for him to be able to use his talent in.

                Our tight ends have the potential to help develop that blocking scheme....but right now that's really all we've got.

                Basically a successful draft would be a running back, and a guy on the O-Line, and another on D-Line, that we feel we can develop into great players...

                I dunno, after that maybe a linebacker and maybe even a fullback to help open up lanes...
                The O-line will take time and we Drafted Harris last year, I'd just cant give the bust card to him yet.

                I'm not against drafting an OT but any OT we draft will have to sit to learn the ZBS.

                We may have put up points but we struggled poorly in the Red zone due to the RBs we have and the Running back by Committee witch has hindered any continuity at that position.

                We have a chance to get our RB now rather then later. We did the same thing with Cutler, even though Jake did well, he was a timebomb waiting to happen so we passed on some backs in that draft and defensive linemen to go for Jay. Witch in my opinion was a very smart move to secure the future for the Franchise.

                Lets not repeat what happen to Elway with Jay. Lets give Jay a RB now while were in position. Then rebuild the O-line as we go.

                We fix the Red zone and things will go our way a-lot more and help Jay from making rash Decisions when he throws witch ends up going into the INT column.

                Elway and Davis both said that we need help in the DT position but we also need a Dominant Run game.

                We couldnt set up the Play Action at all witch gives more movement for a QB as well as misdirection.
                Jay also needs to work on his release a bit more witch will also minimize the time he'll need in the pocket.
                Last edited by BroncoKazuki; 02-03-2008, 01:02 AM.
                McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

                Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BroncoKazuki View Post
                  The O-line will take time and we Drafted Harris last year, I'd just cant give the bust card to him yet.

                  I'm not against drafting an OT but any OT we draft will have to sit to learn the ZBS.

                  We may have put up points but we struggled poorly in the Red zone due to the RBs we have and the Running back by Committee witch has hindered any continuity at that position.

                  We have a chance to get our RB now rather then later. We did the same thing with Cutler, even though Jake did well, he was a timebomb waiting to happen so we passed on some backs in that draft and defensive linemen to go for Jay. Witch in my opinion was a very smart move to secure the future for the Franchise.

                  Lets not repeat what happen to Elway with Jay. Lets give Jay a RB now while were in position. Then rebuild the O-line as we go.

                  We fix the Red zone and things will go our way a-lot more and help Jay from making rash Decisions when he throws witch ends up going into the INT column.

                  Elway and Davis both said that we need help in the DT position but we also need a Dominant Run game.

                  We couldnt set up the Play Action at all witch gives more movement for a QB as well as misdirection.
                  Jay also needs to work on his release a bit more witch will also minimize the time he'll need in the pocket.
                  Basically I agree

                  Like I said, it will take a few years....if we can draft these guys ASAP then we'll have time to build them up to be greats...just like we're grooming Cutler to be.

                  It'll be interesting to see what Harris does in the future. And I agree that our running back situation has declined drastically. Denver used to be the envy of the league at that position...and now it's mediocre.

                  But I also think the system had a little to do with that. Like you said, this committee thing doesn't really work....it makes the individual backs inconsistent....and the blockers have to adjust to different running styles.

                  Not to mention the damages state of the O-line doesn't help our running game any either.

                  We get our RB....then we get the guys we need to help him be a success. i.e. OT, maybe even a FB.

                  I dunno.
                  sigpic

                  DISCLAIMER: MY REVIEWS OFTEN CONTAIN SPOILERS. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
                    Basically I agree

                    Like I said, it will take a few years....if we can draft these guys ASAP then we'll have time to build them up to be greats...just like we're grooming Cutler to be.

                    It'll be interesting to see what Harris does in the future. And I agree that our running back situation has declined drastically. Denver used to be the envy of the league at that position...and now it's mediocre.

                    But I also think the system had a little to do with that. Like you said, this committee thing doesn't really work....it makes the individual backs inconsistent....and the blockers have to adjust to different running styles.

                    Not to mention the damages state of the O-line doesn't help our running game any either.

                    We get our RB....then we get the guys we need to help him be a success. i.e. OT, maybe even a FB.

                    I dunno.
                    we use TE more then FB.

                    we can re-hablitiate Henry into a FB he has the skills somewhat to do so, and with him as FB he'll be able to good things then just be a backup to our Franchise RB. Never know maybe the reason why Henry wasnt that great as a RB was because he was a natural FB.
                    McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

                    Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The Broncos have had success with RB's selected later in the Draft, but they have also had their failures too...yes, Davis was a sixth round pick, and Olandis Gary was a fourth, and Mike Anderson was a sixth....but Clinton Portis was a second...

                      But so was Tatum Bell, and how did that turn out? The Broncos also spent a fourth round pick on Shawn Alexander's brother, Curtis, and his NFL career lasted exactly two training Camps. Then there is fourth round pick Quentin Griffin, and I don't think I need to go there.

                      The bottom line is this, if you do NOT spend a first round pick, you cannot hope to match the talents of the Big Boy teams in the AFC that did, such as the Chargers with LT, the Patriots with Laurence Maroney, and the Colts with Joseph Addai. The Chiefs also made a great selection when they took Larry Johnson even though they had the NFL's leading rusher at the time in Priest Holmes.

                      At some point in time, you get what you pay for, and if you think you can consistently get a GREAT RB in Day Two of the Draft, you are sadly mistaken, and you discount the importance of having a multitiude of weapons, because that is what the NFL has become. As nice a back as Selvin Young is, or even a second-tier pick in this Draft like Georgia Tech's Tashard Choice for example, they are NOT as talented as Jonathan Stewart or Rashard Mendenhall.

                      Look, the Broncos are not going to win the Super Bowl next season. They are not going to rebuild this team to a Championship level in one offseason. It will take a couple of very good Drafts and offseasons, stockpiling players at several positions that cannot be addressed in one Draft. You cannot say, 'We need a LB first', or a DT if they are not the best players available to you in the Draft. The Broncos did this in taking Ashley Lelie over Ed Reed, or in taking DJ Williams over Stephen Jackson, and how did those picks turn out? Reed and Jackson have been dominant players that have been in Pro Bowls, while Lelie and Williams have had, at best, marginal success.

                      Drafting for need is a very risky proposition, and in Drafting at #12, there is no question with Stewart and Mendenhall likely to be on board that RB has the best value.

                      Passing on a RB of their talents in the first round VS taking a mid-rounder is the same as buying a Ford Taurus and hoping it will perform as well as a Mercedes Benz....I suppose it is possible, but it is not likely, and the truth of the matter is, Mike Anderson and Olandis Gary were Drafted along time ago, so the Broncos so-called success of drafting RB's in the later rounds has not happened in almost ten years, and is looking more and more like luck than anything else.
                      Last edited by MindField; 02-03-2008, 07:49 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MindField View Post
                        The Broncos have had success with RB's selected later in the Draft, but they have also had their failures too...yes, Davis was a sixth round pick, and Olandis Gary was a fourth, and Mike Anderson was a sixth....but Clinton Portis was a second...

                        But so was Tatum Bell, and how did that turn out? The Broncos also spent a fourth round pick on Shawn Alexander's brother, Curtis, and his NFL career lasted exactly two training Camps. Then there is fourth round pick Quentin Griffin, and I don't think I need to go there.

                        The bottom line is this, if you do NOT spend a first round pick, you cannot hope to match the talents of the Big Boy teams in the AFC that did, such as the Chargers with LT, the Patriots with Laurence Maroney, and the Colts with Joseph Addai. The Chiefs also made a great selection when they took Larry Johnson even though they had the NFL's leading rusher at the time in Priest Holmes.

                        At some point in time, you get what you pay for, and if you think you can consistently get a GREAT RB in Day Two of the Draft, you are sadly mistaken, and you discount the importance of having a multitiude of weapons, because that is what the NFL has become. As nice a back as Selvin Young is, or even a second-tier pick in this Draft like Georgia Tech's Tashard Choice for example, they are NOT as talented as Jonathan Stewart or Rashard Mendenhall.

                        Look, the Broncos are not going to win the Super Bowl next season. They are not going to rebuild this team to a Championship level in one offseason. It will take a couple of very good Drafts and offseasons, stockpiling players at several positions that cannot be addressed in one Draft. You cannot say, 'We need a LB first', or a DT if they are not the best players available to you in the Draft. The Broncos did this in taking Ashley Lelie over Ed Reed, or in taking DJ Williams over Stephen Jackson, and how did those picks turn out? Reed and Jackson have been dominant players that have been in Pro Bowls, while Lelie and Williams have had, at best, marginal success.

                        Drafting for need is a very risky proposition, and in Drafting at #12, there is no question with Stewart and Mendenhall likely to be on board that RB has the best value.

                        Passing on a RB of their talents in the first round VS taking a mid-rounder is the same as buying a Ford Taurus and hoping it will perform as well as a Mercedes Benz....I suppose it is possible, but it is not likely, and the truth of the matter is, Mike Anderson and Olandis Gary were Drafted along time ago, so the Broncos so-called success of drafting RB's in the later rounds has not happened in almost ten years, and is looking more and more like luck than anything else.
                        Although inspired and heartfelt, alot of this argument is biased, and with conflicting facts.
                        Since there are too many options to pick from I will use the KC situation to express my opinion.
                        The truth is that if you know how to evaluate your draft you can find potential in most any round. A perfect example was UDFA and NFL rushing leader (twice I think) Priest Holmes. He wasn't even drafted and he was considered the most dangerous and explosive player in the league for at least two years before getting hurt. Yeah you could say it was luck, but why do the best teams seem to do it over and over, get "lucky" I mean. But like you mentioned, they went and picked up LJ (who I believed was the best and most underrated back of the class) with a fairly high draft pick(#27, in 03').
                        The difference in their respective values are great, but I question were they both good RBs from opposite sides of the Draft tracks or were they, as you say products of the system.

                        I hope you would agree to both, but it is understandable if you didn't. The most damning evidence to the "Triplets/ Trifecta/ Triangle" whatever, is that like this situation, as well as aconstant gripe of Broncos fans for the last 15 years, is thet the Olines of these seemingly great backs never get the respect and attention that they deserve. Looking back at the Great teams you have mentioned, all of them had great, almost legendary (Zimmerman HOF), olines.

                        Is it a coincindence that right after Shields and Roaf retired that KC's running game went south (even with the great LJ). What about Shaun Alexander and his troubles after Steve Hutchinson left or that Minnisotas run game haas taken off with the addition of hutchinson. Sure AP is just awesome, but Chester Taylor was dragging people before AP got there and continued to do so when AP was hurt.

                        Probably still just luck. How about the once mighty Broncos Oline. Once Zimmerman then Schlereth left, the running game has been on a slow and steady decline. And as more and more of that great group leave... maybe that explains to the gradual decline in the production of runningback we have had over the years, maybe just coincidence. We probably just need better backs. Super human backs that (ala Chad Jhonson) can hike to themselves and run through the holes that they make on their own. The best of them (in most peoples opinion) was Clinton Portis.

                        Portis had all the measurables of a great RB, but he couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. He had speed around the edges, but he spent most of his time tripping over his shoelaces. This last year (post Taylor) was the only time I've seen him consistantly fight and refuse to go down. It also happened to be one of his best years and the helped the Skins make thart turn around. The point is that, even Portis the Great was only as successful as the width of the holes made for him by the oline. For the record I believe Anderson was the best post TD RB we've had (always moving the chains, nice and slow).

                        The colts line produced: Marshal Faulk, Edgerine James, D. Rhodes, Joseph Addai, and even Kenton Keith is getting into the mix. Just Luck....ooor, prehaps they have had one of the best olines in the NFL for years.

                        You mention Stephen Jackson, but he had a lousy year as well. Coincidence that his oline was devestated by injuries this year.

                        Laurence Maroney.......see Super Bowl. Before one rebutts that their oline was getting creamed, remember what it leaves your argument open to.

                        Is it possible that the geniuses in the Chargers organization were so keen that they were able to see the hidden potential in L. Neal, M. Turner, AND D. Sproles, not to mention the all powerful LT. Was this the same hidden potential that nobody else in the League was able to see. It would be rude to take away from the remarkable talents the Charges have behind center by insinuating that the oline might have something, if not a great deal, to do with it. Can the entire Charger backfield be that good? I'm not a cynic, but come on.

                        In the end, there are no sure things in the Draft, poeple can only hope that they have the unique ability to make the correct asessments to get the best value for players. Sometimes it is just a crap shoot. However, you can look at what is most important to the success of your team as well as teams around the league, and there is no way you could pick the best back in the world if you don't have the best line possible blocking for him.

                        Personally, I would rather have a great Oline that made a poor RB look good over a great RB that made a poor Oline look average....If I were to chose and those were my only options.

                        But what do I know , I just wasted an hour of my life in front of the blinking lights.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BroncoKazuki View Post
                          Our last best back was.... drum roll please... Clinton Portis and he was a 1st round back in the 2nd round. He got pushed out.


                          Where's the all mighty RB that we found in the 5th 6th and 7th rounds.... not on the team or flat out faded from the league.

                          Henry was a FA bust and Bowlen has now put the choke-chain on Shanahan for doing the same stupid thing all over again.

                          Bowlen will be pressing Shanahan to find someone that can be looked at as a Franchise Back.

                          The backs we have now are all utter trash that are just products of the system. Just like the Trash Backs we had before them and so on.

                          The only best back post TD was Portis, the rest have be thrown out and been wasted picks.

                          that is all.
                          If I could ever find it I would post the FO article that actually proved this. We had decent backs (trash is a lil harsh) but none of them were really even considered above average on a per play statistical study other than CP. Mike the Marine had a good year in 05 but again... wasn't a world beater like TD...

                          Merely having a "1000" yard back means nothing to me. I don't know if we NEED a 1st rounder, but I do believe we need at least some sort of back or back system where the opposing offense has to do more than say "Oh well lets sometimes come up to stop them."

                          With Cutler at the helm now, I feel defense will key on him first... which will elevate the game of any back once we get a half decent line to open up holes, but at the same time I want a real back that can take advantage of those oppurtunities (ALA Edge James in Indy or Maroney)

                          Having a stud QB and RB (or RB's) makes the defense have to pick their poison... but even a lesser poison can kill you.
                          Bronco fan from Packer Land.
                          Lefty Writer on The Sports Show with Woody Paige and Les Shapiro
                          Tweet me @JoRo_5551

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Zanders76 View Post
                            Although inspired and heartfelt, alot of this argument is biased, and with conflicting facts.
                            Since there are too many options to pick from I will use the KC situation to express my opinion.
                            The truth is that if you know how to evaluate your draft you can find potential in most any round. A perfect example was UDFA and NFL rushing leader (twice I think) Priest Holmes. He wasn't even drafted and he was considered the most dangerous and explosive player in the league for at least two years before getting hurt. Yeah you could say it was luck, but why do the best teams seem to do it over and over, get "lucky" I mean. But like you mentioned, they went and picked up LJ (who I believed was the best and most underrated back of the class) with a fairly high draft pick(#27, in 03').
                            The difference in their respective values are great, but I question were they both good RBs from opposite sides of the Draft tracks or were they, as you say products of the system.

                            I hope you would agree to both, but it is understandable if you didn't. The most damning evidence to the "Triplets/ Trifecta/ Triangle" whatever, is that like this situation, as well as aconstant gripe of Broncos fans for the last 15 years, is thet the Olines of these seemingly great backs never get the respect and attention that they deserve. Looking back at the Great teams you have mentioned, all of them had great, almost legendary (Zimmerman HOF), olines.

                            Is it a coincindence that right after Shields and Roaf retired that KC's running game went south (even with the great LJ). What about Shaun Alexander and his troubles after Steve Hutchinson left or that Minnisotas run game haas taken off with the addition of hutchinson. Sure AP is just awesome, but Chester Taylor was dragging people before AP got there and continued to do so when AP was hurt.

                            Probably still just luck. How about the once mighty Broncos Oline. Once Zimmerman then Schlereth left, the running game has been on a slow and steady decline. And as more and more of that great group leave... maybe that explains to the gradual decline in the production of runningback we have had over the years, maybe just coincidence. We probably just need better backs. Super human backs that (ala Chad Jhonson) can hike to themselves and run through the holes that they make on their own. The best of them (in most peoples opinion) was Clinton Portis.

                            Portis had all the measurables of a great RB, but he couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. He had speed around the edges, but he spent most of his time tripping over his shoelaces. This last year (post Taylor) was the only time I've seen him consistantly fight and refuse to go down. It also happened to be one of his best years and the helped the Skins make thart turn around. The point is that, even Portis the Great was only as successful as the width of the holes made for him by the oline. For the record I believe Anderson was the best post TD RB we've had (always moving the chains, nice and slow).

                            The colts line produced: Marshal Faulk, Edgerine James, D. Rhodes, Joseph Addai, and even Kenton Keith is getting into the mix. Just Luck....ooor, prehaps they have had one of the best olines in the NFL for years.

                            You mention Stephen Jackson, but he had a lousy year as well. Coincidence that his oline was devestated by injuries this year.

                            Laurence Maroney.......see Super Bowl. Before one rebutts that their oline was getting creamed, remember what it leaves your argument open to.

                            Is it possible that the geniuses in the Chargers organization were so keen that they were able to see the hidden potential in L. Neal, M. Turner, AND D. Sproles, not to mention the all powerful LT. Was this the same hidden potential that nobody else in the League was able to see. It would be rude to take away from the remarkable talents the Charges have behind center by insinuating that the oline might have something, if not a great deal, to do with it. Can the entire Charger backfield be that good? I'm not a cynic, but come on.

                            In the end, there are no sure things in the Draft, poeple can only hope that they have the unique ability to make the correct asessments to get the best value for players. Sometimes it is just a crap shoot. However, you can look at what is most important to the success of your team as well as teams around the league, and there is no way you could pick the best back in the world if you don't have the best line possible blocking for him.

                            Personally, I would rather have a great Oline that made a poor RB look good over a great RB that made a poor Oline look average....If I were to chose and those were my only options.

                            But what do I know , I just wasted an hour of my life in front of the blinking lights.

                            And this is why I don't know if I want us going back in the first.

                            So much of the running back comes from the line.. although I disagree heartily with your Alexander situation (he had over 370 carries... he was doomed)

                            I do think that if we take Choice and then amp up our OT situation we could be good too... a power back and Young behind a better line... though I do NOT think that OT would make a huge improvement in one year (studies show that lines typically need time together to play well... another study from FO I can't type up right now((at work)))

                            But I am really thinkin we will not take an OT in the first... unless Shanny was blowing smoke he is actually happy with our OT situation (oh please let me be blind to the smoke in my face) in which case we will go elsewhere... if we go OT later I hope we get Duane Brown as I am really high on him right now from what I have read and looked into (although I don't watch nearly as much tape as some of the other people soooooo take it for what it's worth)

                            I just hope whoever we do pickup isn't a reach for need with the hope of competing next year. Yes I want us to win games next year... but I don't want us to put a bandaid on a broken bone, I want us to give the wound time, rehab and really fix it so it is at full strength, which means taking the best player at the places we draft even if it means passing a worse need such as DT to take a lesser need like OT or RB. (We DO need OT talent.. if you don't believe that you must think that the team wanted Graham to just be a training wheel for Pears all year)
                            Bronco fan from Packer Land.
                            Lefty Writer on The Sports Show with Woody Paige and Les Shapiro
                            Tweet me @JoRo_5551

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Zanders76 View Post
                              Although inspired and heartfelt, alot of this argument is biased, and with conflicting facts.
                              Since there are too many options to pick from I will use the KC situation to express my opinion.
                              The truth is that if you know how to evaluate your draft you can find potential in most any round. A perfect example was UDFA and NFL rushing leader (twice I think) Priest Holmes. He wasn't even drafted and he was considered the most dangerous and explosive player in the league for at least two years before getting hurt. Yeah you could say it was luck, but why do the best teams seem to do it over and over, get "lucky" I mean. But like you mentioned, they went and picked up LJ (who I believed was the best and most underrated back of the class) with a fairly high draft pick(#27, in 03').
                              The difference in their respective values are great, but I question were they both good RBs from opposite sides of the Draft tracks or were they, as you say products of the system.

                              I hope you would agree to both, but it is understandable if you didn't. The most damning evidence to the "Triplets/ Trifecta/ Triangle" whatever, is that like this situation, as well as aconstant gripe of Broncos fans for the last 15 years, is thet the Olines of these seemingly great backs never get the respect and attention that they deserve. Looking back at the Great teams you have mentioned, all of them had great, almost legendary (Zimmerman HOF), olines.

                              Is it a coincindence that right after Shields and Roaf retired that KC's running game went south (even with the great LJ). What about Shaun Alexander and his troubles after Steve Hutchinson left or that Minnisotas run game haas taken off with the addition of hutchinson. Sure AP is just awesome, but Chester Taylor was dragging people before AP got there and continued to do so when AP was hurt.

                              Probably still just luck. How about the once mighty Broncos Oline. Once Zimmerman then Schlereth left, the running game has been on a slow and steady decline. And as more and more of that great group leave... maybe that explains to the gradual decline in the production of runningback we have had over the years, maybe just coincidence. We probably just need better backs. Super human backs that (ala Chad Jhonson) can hike to themselves and run through the holes that they make on their own. The best of them (in most peoples opinion) was Clinton Portis.

                              Portis had all the measurables of a great RB, but he couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. He had speed around the edges, but he spent most of his time tripping over his shoelaces. This last year (post Taylor) was the only time I've seen him consistantly fight and refuse to go down. It also happened to be one of his best years and the helped the Skins make thart turn around. The point is that, even Portis the Great was only as successful as the width of the holes made for him by the oline. For the record I believe Anderson was the best post TD RB we've had (always moving the chains, nice and slow).

                              The colts line produced: Marshal Faulk, Edgerine James, D. Rhodes, Joseph Addai, and even Kenton Keith is getting into the mix. Just Luck....ooor, prehaps they have had one of the best olines in the NFL for years.

                              You mention Stephen Jackson, but he had a lousy year as well. Coincidence that his oline was devestated by injuries this year.

                              Laurence Maroney.......see Super Bowl. Before one rebutts that their oline was getting creamed, remember what it leaves your argument open to.

                              Is it possible that the geniuses in the Chargers organization were so keen that they were able to see the hidden potential in L. Neal, M. Turner, AND D. Sproles, not to mention the all powerful LT. Was this the same hidden potential that nobody else in the League was able to see. It would be rude to take away from the remarkable talents the Charges have behind center by insinuating that the oline might have something, if not a great deal, to do with it. Can the entire Charger backfield be that good? I'm not a cynic, but come on.

                              In the end, there are no sure things in the Draft, people can only hope that they have the unique ability to make the correct assesments to get the best value for players. Sometimes it is just a crap shoot. However, you can look at what is most important to the success of your team as well as teams around the league, and there is no way you could pick the best back in the world if you don't have the best line possible blocking for him.

                              Personally, I would rather have a great Oline that made a poor RB look good over a great RB that made a poor Oline look average....If I were to chose and those were my only options.

                              But what do I know , I just wasted an hour of my life in front of the blinking lights.
                              So, we have a difference of opinion, and that's fine. I happen to think that a Coach should coach to his strengths, and if Shanahan is ever going to prosper again, it is going to have to be with a great Offensive football team. I personally think the best way to have that is with great balance Offensively, and I also think that a sure fire talent like a Stewart or a Mendenhall (because that is how I view them) at tailback is a better investment than sifting through the rubble of late round picks or undrafted Free Agents....put it this way, for every Priest Holmes or Terrell Davis, there are literally hundreds of backs over the same period of time that did not play a down in the NFL, and far more talented backs over that time came out of the early rounds. I think you simply bite the bullet, as you did with Cutler, and get a special player if you can, and I think Mendenhall and Stewart both are going to be extremely good NFL tailbacks.

                              Now, I view the Broncos at a critical juncture right now in their development. They have invested the early pick in Cutler, and purged themselves of Plummer and a veteran football team that was good enough to get to an AFC Championship game, but that was not good enough, according to Shanahan, to win a Super Bowl. So, now you have Cutler as a cornerstone of a very young, transitioning football team, and low and behold, a possible diamond in the rough, Brandon Marshall has emerged, who looks like he can become a great player, and one of the better weapons in the NFL at WR. He looks like he has special talent, rare talent, and that is a great compliment to go with Cutler. I also believe the Broncos have a very good outlet player in TE Tony Scheffler....the only thing missing is the beast Running Back, and this year, they have a chance to add just that to what is looking like a very promising collection of weapons....and this is even before we talk about Javon Walker, who I personally hope the Broncos can work things out with. God, if you are a D-Coordinator and you face an Offense of Cutler, Stewart/Mendenhall, Marshall, J Walker, Scheffler and Selvin Young??!, where would YOU begin?

                              As far as the O-Line goes, yes, it, like alot of areas on the football team needs to improve...but Tom Nalen and Ben Hamilton look to be back next year, both are veteran players and can help the group of youngsters the Broncos have, and other young players like Ryan Harris and Erik Pears are going to have to get better....but O-Lines can be re-built in rather short order. Just three years ago, for example the San Diego Chargers O-Line was a disaster area, and now it is among the best in the AFC.

                              The point is, the #12 pick in this years Draft HAS to be a player that is a very good one for the Broncos, and I just don't see a player that can have the same impact that Jonathan Stewart or Rashard Mendenhall can. They are potential game-changing players....really, I don't see any player from any other position, unless you propose to trade up, that can have their impact, and I think that would be a bad idea for the Broncos, since they are already short on Draft picks to begin with.

                              BTW, our GREAT Super Bowl O-Line was made up of the following players:

                              C Tom Nalen, seventh round draft pick.
                              RG Brian Habib, a Free Agent signee from the Vikings that was an undrafted Free Agent for them.
                              LG Mark Schlereth, another Free Agent that was a 10th round pick of the Redskins.
                              RT Tony Jones, aquired in trade from the Cleveland Browns for a second round pick that was originally a 10th round pick of the Browns.
                              LT Gary Zimmerman, a first round talent and refugee from the USFL that the Broncos aquired in trade from the Vikings.

                              So, as you can see, great O-Lines can be built, just as you suggest RB's can be found, with later round Draft picks.

                              I also believe what John Madden believes, which is great Running Backs make great Offensive Lines, and not the other way around.

                              It just comes down to the philosophy you want to employ, and I am a subscriber to Jimmy Johnson's theory of the more playmakers you have, the better off you are. Jimmy invested Draftpicks to have playmakers at every position, and the result weas the most balanced, dynamic football team I personally ever saw play in the NFL. A good example of this is Emmitt Smith himself...I don't think he was a GREAT talent, per se, but he was extremely effective because the Cowboys had so many weapons and if you tried to clamp down on any one thing, they would kill you with something else, and that included Aikman (who is not generally considered a historically GREAT NFL QB), Michael Irvin, Smith and Jay Novacek (a Plan B castoff Free Agent fronthe Arizona Cardinals). That is where it all started. Their Defense was also very good, but it was helped immensely, as the Broncos was in 1997/98, because they could play loose and attack, and if they made a mistake or two along the way, the offense was so strong, it could bail them out.

                              So strangely enough, my belief now is that our Defense can best improve in the short term by making our Offense a jauggernaut.
                              Last edited by MindField; 02-04-2008, 06:30 PM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X