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  • #46
    Originally posted by Nick
    Dream, Do not let Grid be in the GM draft next year! I like the idea of the chiefs selecting Stewart with their 1st rounder.

    Grid... The mock that you have for the chiefs would be a scary good first day for them... I am sure every draft nut would agree.

    Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB out of Tennessee State (most likely will go higher then 22 but a huge possiblity of how the CB's play out out and what order they go.

    Then you got three very solid linemen that I am very very high on.

    Branden Albert OG out of Virginia
    Carl Nicks OT out of Nebraska
    Anthony Collins OT out of Kansas

    BUT very plausible.

    How can you get better than this:

    4 Jonathan Stewart RB
    34 Trevor Laws DT
    69 Erin Henderson OLB
    100 Mike Pollak C
    130 Cliff Avril OLB
    160 Zack Bowman CB
    177 Duane Brown OT
    195 Jeremy Zuttah OT
    221 Josh Johnson QB

    Great Draft without all the fake trades and wishful thinking (well, maybe Brown in the 6th).

    As far as Stewart goes: Look at the history of the league for RBs after they have handled excessive carries. LJ didn't play the last 8 games due to injury. He might never be the same. Besides I had Stewart as the best back in the draft for the bruising style offense Herm wants. Why miss him when I can get just as good OL starters later in the draft. Oh yeah, Herm wants to go ZB so its even dumber to spend such high draft spots on OL that wont start immediately and how will you protect your players (RBs & QBs) while you wait for your line to mature. KC will be and is a hard nosed running team and without the type of OLine to do that their gonna take alot of hits. You are gonna need more than one body carring the rock like LJ did in 06'. I could have taken the value pick (at the time) McFadden, but he sucks at the type of run game that Herm wants. Granted KC needs alot of help at OLine, but they weren't as far off as people think from being competative.

    I think about it kinda like Jacksonville: they play the type of football I love (slow and steady.. pounding the rock), luckily so does Herm. With two big and bruising backs, defenses won't have time to rest, while my RBs can. Who knows if LJ will ever be the same, but Stewart should help him get his legs back. We'll extend LJs career as well as enhance and extend Stewarts.

    By waiting on OLine, KC was able to draft defenders that are a better mold for the type of Dfense Herm wants: A shut down type of dfense with Penetrating DTs, QB pressuring DEs, and big (over fast) LB's to shed blockers and make the tackle. I got the 2nd and 3rd best OLBs in the draft, the 2nd or 3rd best DT in the draft, the best RB IMOP, the best Center (the only OL position that will start from day one), 2 very good ZB linemen, and a Mike Vick-like QB with the last pick steal of the draft (i think he might even be better than Vick). The only hole in the draft as far as I see it is CB, but even there I think I got a great deal on a sleeper (besides we have several young CB prospects).

    Kinda like the Ravens in 2000. All dfense and a running game.

    Or may be I should have drafted 4-5 olinemen right away, neglected all other positions of need, started 1 maybe 2 of them (if I was lucky), and then a bunch of scrubs or reaches on dfense.

    This way I fill more holes with quality players. I still got 3 of 5 oline men that I wanted (woulda loved Alberts, but good quality was available later while DT was running thin), added to the stamina of the running game, and got great Dfensivepicks for the front seven. In three years 5-7 of these nine will be starting. Seems good to me.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Zanders76
      How can you get better than this:

      4 Jonathan Stewart RB
      34 Trevor Laws DT
      69 Erin Henderson OLB

      100 Mike Pollak C
      130 Cliff Avril OLB
      160 Zack Bowman CB
      177 Duane Brown OT
      195 Jeremy Zuttah OT

      221 Josh Johnson QB

      Great Draft without all the fake trades and wishful thinking (well, maybe Brown in the 6th).

      As far as Stewart goes: Look at the history of the league for RBs after they have handled excessive carries. LJ didn't play the last 8 games due to injury. He might never be the same. Besides I had Stewart as the best back in the draft for the bruising style offense Herm wants. Why miss him when I can get just as good OL starters later in the draft. Oh yeah, Herm wants to go ZB so its even dumber to spend such high draft spots on OL that wont start immediately and how will you protect your players (RBs & QBs) while you wait for your line to mature. KC will be and is a hard nosed running team and without the type of OLine to do that their gonna take alot of hits. You are gonna need more than one body carring the rock like LJ did in 06'. I could have taken the value pick (at the time) McFadden, but he sucks at the type of run game that Herm wants. Granted KC needs alot of help at OLine, but they weren't as far off as people think from being competative.

      I think about it kinda like Jacksonville: they play the type of football I love (slow and steady.. pounding the rock), luckily so does Herm. With two big and bruising backs, defenses won't have time to rest, while my RBs can. Who knows if LJ will ever be the same, but Stewart should help him get his legs back. We'll extend LJs career as well as enhance and extend Stewarts.

      By waiting on OLine, KC was able to draft defenders that are a better mold for the type of Dfense Herm wants: A shut down type of dfense with Penetrating DTs, QB pressuring DEs, and big (over fast) LB's to shed blockers and make the tackle. I got the 2nd and 3rd best OLBs in the draft, the 2nd or 3rd best DT in the draft, the best RB IMOP, the best Center (the only OL position that will start from day one), 2 very good ZB linemen, and a Mike Vick-like QB with the last pick steal of the draft (i think he might even be better than Vick). The only hole in the draft as far as I see it is CB, but even there I think I got a great deal on a sleeper (besides we have several young CB prospects).

      Kinda like the Ravens in 2000. All dfense and a running game.

      Or may be I should have drafted 4-5 olinemen right away, neglected all other positions of need, started 1 maybe 2 of them (if I was lucky), and then a bunch of scrubs or reaches on dfense.

      This way I fill more holes with quality players. I still got 3 of 5 oline men that I wanted (woulda loved Alberts, but good quality was available later while DT was running thin), added to the stamina of the running game, and got great Dfensivepicks for the front seven. In three years 5-7 of these nine will be starting. Seems good to me.

      Good picks that were made


      Picks that make no sense at all. Laws isnt a run stuffing DT at all, we have a DT with more of a pass rushing attitude. An OLB? We have Derrik Johnson, DeMarrio Williams, Donnie Edwards (who will be playing MLB) and Napolean Harris who can play outside LB. Ok so RB, LJ has only equaled about 2 seasons of carries now and he is being wrote off as being able to continue carrying the load? We also have Kolby Smith who looked semi-promising last year as a back-up, so not only is a RB in the top half of the draft a waste taking Stewart before McFadden is ridiculous.

      Useless picks because they arent either good prospects, but they dont really hurt the draft.


      So great, you got us no one to start this year, next year, or the year after unless by some miraculous chance someone does turnout to be a sleeper. Stewart wont start till LJ is ACTUALLY washed up and just no injured, Laws will never win a starting job as long as Boone is here, niether OLB is going to take the OLB position from DJ or DW, Oh my bad Pollack will probably start...
      Duane Brown isd about 50/50 so being a rookie i said no, although KC has no else...

      But the worst part is... YOU DIDNT EVEN FILL THE OL... IF KC ONLY TAKES 3 OL i will throw my TV to the ground. We have, count them, 1 OL worth of starting where he is playing. Brian Waters. Sure, McIntosh could play RT, but none of the OT's you have us drafting will EVER play LT, so therefor we have pretty much a no better line than before...

      We didnt get a WR, so i guess we still only have 2 options, we didnt get a CB so we still cant cover anyone.

      We have 4 of 9 picks being completely wasted on players that wouldnt be used until even if they live up to thier potentiol for 4 years. (Stewart, both OLBs, and Laws)

      You got an F minus minus. If it sounds harsh, I'm sorry but trying to defend what you just called a decent draft is ludicris... Well here, if I made that Mock for Denver would you not be ticked? I could make up ridiculous reasons for it as well. You need a RB. Boss Bailey is nothing special so lets draft 2 OLBs hoping one can replace him. Laws can stop the run in teh NFL cuz he is tiny but he might be good at interior rushing.


      Fake trades? With McFadden there at #5 did you talk to any GM about trading down? Because i'm sure someone woulda jumped for that. No, its not that you didnt follow my mock draft (which you call wishful thinking, i seem to find many experts/anylists that say if McFadden is there this is a very likely scenario) its the fact that it looks like you honestly didnt even try to make it good. And i think anyone that understand the Chiefs remotely would agree that would be the worse draft in this year.
      Club Leader: Robert Griffin III > Andrew Luck

      ^^^Get used to it.^^^

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by GridironChamp

        Good picks that were made


        Picks that make no sense at all. Laws isnt a run stuffing DT at all, we have a DT with more of a pass rushing attitude. An OLB? We have Derrik Johnson, DeMarrio Williams, Donnie Edwards (who will be playing MLB) and Napolean Harris who can play outside LB. Ok so RB, LJ has only equaled about 2 seasons of carries now and he is being wrote off as being able to continue carrying the load? We also have Kolby Smith who looked semi-promising last year as a back-up, so not only is a RB in the top half of the draft a waste taking Stewart before McFadden is ridiculous.

        Useless picks because they arent either good prospects, but they dont really hurt the draft.


        So great, you got us no one to start this year, next year, or the year after unless by some miraculous chance someone does turnout to be a sleeper. Stewart wont start till LJ is ACTUALLY washed up and just no injured, Laws will never win a starting job as long as Boone is here, niether OLB is going to take the OLB position from DJ or DW, Oh my bad Pollack will probably start...
        Duane Brown isd about 50/50 so being a rookie i said no, although KC has no else...

        But the worst part is... YOU DIDNT EVEN FILL THE OL... IF KC ONLY TAKES 3 OL i will throw my TV to the ground. We have, count them, 1 OL worth of starting where he is playing. Brian Waters. Sure, McIntosh could play RT, but none of the OT's you have us drafting will EVER play LT, so therefor we have pretty much a no better line than before...

        We didnt get a WR, so i guess we still only have 2 options, we didnt get a CB so we still cant cover anyone.

        We have 4 of 9 picks being completely wasted on players that wouldnt be used until even if they live up to thier potentiol for 4 years. (Stewart, both OLBs, and Laws)

        You got an F minus minus. If it sounds harsh, I'm sorry but trying to defend what you just called a decent draft is ludicris... Well here, if I made that Mock for Denver would you not be ticked? I could make up ridiculous reasons for it as well. You need a RB. Boss Bailey is nothing special so lets draft 2 OLBs hoping one can replace him. Laws can stop the run in teh NFL cuz he is tiny but he might be good at interior rushing.


        Fake trades? With McFadden there at #5 did you talk to any GM about trading down? Because i'm sure someone woulda jumped for that. No, its not that you didnt follow my mock draft (which you call wishful thinking, i seem to find many experts/anylists that say if McFadden is there this is a very likely scenario) its the fact that it looks like you honestly didnt even try to make it good. And i think anyone that understand the Chiefs remotely would agree that would be the worse draft in this year.
        Red
        Laws is known more for his runstuffing than his pass rushing, but he remains penetrating (look it up or watch a game). KC only has one, although underachieving, average DT in Edwards. Boone is 32 yrs old and has played poorly. Do you imagine he will play till 35 (I hope we could beat on him for another 3 years). Even so, Laws could start for KC on draft status alone and still be an improvement, day one.

        This was before Williams was picked up. Harris is going to be replaced for lack of production and Edwards will be moved to the middle. If anything, I called it before it hit the news.

        Your insane if you think Avril wouldn't be able to start on your team. Worse case senario, Avril and Henderson will fight over at WLB until Edwards retires (2yrs max) then Henderson moves to the middle. Yes, I think Henderson will excell in the middle. Chances are that Edwards will retire next year if he wasn't beat out this year by Henderson. Or do you also expect Edwards (age 34) to play the middle till he is 37. Who is dillusional now. Clear yet.

        Do some history on RBs. It doesn't bode well for LJ. Even so, I've never writen him off, if anything I trying to make sure that he doesn't become another statistic while improving the team. Maybe you watched different games than me, but I only saw one game where Smith looked anything beyond mediocre. I'm offering little to no drop-off in production when LJ is not in the game, Smith couldn't do that plain and simple.

        As far as the overhyped McFadden, all the man crush in the world won't make him a strong and physical back. Nor will it make him more than a feather-light 3rd down scatback (see overpaid/overhyped RB Reggie Bush).

        Josh Johnson has a huge upside and is very underrated because of where he played. Great athlete with high accuracy marks. Better than any current KC QB on the threat of potential alone. But still, he was just a last pick flyer.

        Blue
        Brown and Zuttah are considered among the top ZBs at their positions and considerably cheap. Look it up.

        Bowman was very good before injuries slowed him. He does have a huge bust factor, but was a 6th round flyer as well. Besides, like I said KC already had good young talent at CB so risking a late pick on a fast potential player isn't really a risk at all.

        KC has 13 OL men right now: 4 have 8 or more years experience, all the rest have 3 yrs or less with 2 rookies. Give your team a chance. I'm sure bringing in 6 more rookie olinemen would be healthy. What happens when they don't start next year, draft 7 or 8 more. You might get the best line in football, but the rest of your team will fall apart. ZB takes time, show patience.

        The way I see it: Day one = 4 starters (Laws, Pollak, Brown, Avril),
        Next year = 2+ (Henderson and Zuttah, by attricion alone), Year 3 = All players will have started several games. No, chances are Stewart won't start, but he will play every game (running by committee) ala Mack and Byner.

        Don't be such a homer. No team loses 9 straight and is as good as you make them out to be.

        Finally, If this was Denvers draft I would be equally estatic. Our teams share alot (not all) of the same problems, only KCs are more pronounced.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Zanders76
          Red
          Laws is known more for his runstuffing than his pass rushing, but he remains penetrating (look it up or watch a game). KC only has one, although underachieving, average DT in Edwards. Boone is 32 yrs old and has played poorly. Do you imagine he will play till 35 (I hope we could beat on him for another 3 years). Even so, Laws could start for KC on draft status alone and still be an improvement, day one.

          This was before Williams was picked up. Harris is going to be replaced for lack of production and Edwards will be moved to the middle. If anything, I called it before it hit the news.

          Your insane if you think Avril wouldn't be able to start on your team. Worse case senario, Avril and Henderson will fight over at WLB until Edwards retires (2yrs max) then Henderson moves to the middle. Yes, I think Henderson will excell in the middle. Chances are that Edwards will retire next year if he wasn't beat out this year by Henderson. Or do you also expect Edwards (age 34) to play the middle till he is 37. Who is dillusional now. Clear yet.

          Do some history on RBs. It doesn't bode well for LJ. Even so, I've never writen him off, if anything I trying to make sure that he doesn't become another statistic while improving the team. Maybe you watched different games than me, but I only saw one game where Smith looked anything beyond mediocre. I'm offering little to no drop-off in production when LJ is not in the game, Smith couldn't do that plain and simple.

          As far as the overhyped McFadden, all the man crush in the world won't make him a strong and physical back. Nor will it make him more than a feather-light 3rd down scatback (see overpaid/overhyped RB Reggie Bush).

          Josh Johnson has a huge upside and is very underrated because of where he played. Great athlete with high accuracy marks. Better than any current KC QB on the threat of potential alone. But still, he was just a last pick flyer.

          Blue
          Brown and Zuttah are considered among the top ZBs at their positions and considerably cheap. Look it up.

          Bowman was very good before injuries slowed him. He does have a huge bust factor, but was a 6th round flyer as well. Besides, like I said KC already had good young talent at CB so risking a late pick on a fast potential player isn't really a risk at all.

          KC has 13 OL men right now: 4 have 8 or more years experience, all the rest have 3 yrs or less with 2 rookies. Give your team a chance. I'm sure bringing in 6 more rookie olinemen would be healthy. What happens when they don't start next year, draft 7 or 8 more. You might get the best line in football, but the rest of your team will fall apart. ZB takes time, show patience.

          The way I see it: Day one = 4 starters (Laws, Pollak, Brown, Avril),
          Next year = 2+ (Henderson and Zuttah, by attricion alone), Year 3 = All players will have started several games. No, chances are Stewart won't start, but he will play every game (running by committee) ala Mack and Byner.

          Don't be such a homer. No team loses 9 straight and is as good as you make them out to be.

          Finally, If this was Denvers draft I would be equally estatic. Our teams share alot (not all) of the same problems, only KCs are more pronounced.
          Its a sad thing that you responded because you look really stupid for defending your draft.

          "Doesn't have all the physical tools you look for but his intangibles are top-rate...The type who will never be a star and projects as more of a backup in the NFL but could play in the league for a long time and coaches will adore him"
          Your, apperent relative, Laws ^

          Boone played poorly, now that is a joke. Boone played GREAT for KC last year. Not only did he constantly apply pressure up the middle he actually unlike the rest of DTs could withstand a double team and not get driven back 5 yards. Take your own advise, read/watch something about the Chiefs.

          Yeah, Edwards was moved to MLB whe we picked up DeMarrio Williams. Crazy? Your a flipping idiot if you think Avril or Henderson will beat out Derrik Johnson or DeMarrio Williams. The only OLB in this draft that would stand a chance to take DeMarrio Williams job would be Rivers, who wouldnt be worth wasting a pick on because he wont be that much better. I cant believe your calling anyone dillusional after having KC draft 2 OLB when we have 4 guys that could start at OLB on our roster.

          Little to no drop off? So Stewart is going to be atop 3 rusher in the league his rookie season? No, and your wrong cuz Smith runs differently than LJ. When Smith subs for LJ it will be great because it will be a change of pace. You also havnt justified why we wasted the 5th overall pick for someone who wont start for years...

          McFadden is about 10x stronger than Reggie Bush, so... what a great comparison by a genius..

          Brown and Zuttah are grade "W" OTs in this draft. I dont care how good or bad you think they are are. They arent. You arent going to sale anyone on a 5th and 6th round OL being great. Wait, your talking about zone blocking? Are you freaking kidding me? Zone blocking? KC runs a straight up bull-rush blocking scheme, no pulling no side stepping you go forward and demolish someone. So you even drafted the wrong kind of bad OL... God this is pathetic. We have 13 OLs, and only 2 of which should start this year. Unfortunatly i'm thinking 3 will unless we trade down, which i could live with but after looking at your draft we would have 4 start.

          None of those players will start besides Pollack by process of elimination.


          Seriously dude, learn something about the team you draft about or read depth charts or something. You cant justify wasting the 5th overall pick on a 4 year back-up, getting a terrible DT, 2 OLBs that will wait for two young good OLBs to get old and leave the team or retire, and 2 OT's that are good for zone blocking... the opposite of what we run.



          Make another long post, i'll just make it simple here...

          1) LJ is fine, no reason to waste any pick on a RB before the 5th round.
          2) Laws is a terrible DT, that wont start on any team, especially a team needing a run stuffing DT.
          3) We HAVE ZERO NEED for OLBs, that is actually the one position, and DE, that we dont need. We have 2 young OLBs that are very good.
          4) Wow, you got some scrub CB that is supposed to start? In case you dont know KC has one CB that has started at least a full season at CB.
          5) You only drafted 3 OL, two of which blow and dont fit our blockign scheme, and a Center... the one decent pick. BTW, good job at getting a starting OG.
          Club Leader: Robert Griffin III > Andrew Luck

          ^^^Get used to it.^^^

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by GridironChamp
            Its a sad thing that you responded because you look really stupid for defending your draft.

            "Doesn't have all the physical tools you look for but his intangibles are top-rate...The type who will never be a star and projects as more of a backup in the NFL but could play in the league for a long time and coaches will adore him"
            Your, apperent relative, Laws ^

            Boone played poorly, now that is a joke. Boone played GREAT for KC last year. Not only did he constantly apply pressure up the middle he actually unlike the rest of DTs could withstand a double team and not get driven back 5 yards. Take your own advise, read/watch something about the Chiefs.

            Yeah, Edwards was moved to MLB whe we picked up DeMarrio Williams. Crazy? Your a flipping idiot if you think Avril or Henderson will beat out Derrik Johnson or DeMarrio Williams. The only OLB in this draft that would stand a chance to take DeMarrio Williams job would be Rivers, who wouldnt be worth wasting a pick on because he wont be that much better. I cant believe your calling anyone dillusional after having KC draft 2 OLB when we have 4 guys that could start at OLB on our roster.

            Little to no drop off? So Stewart is going to be atop 3 rusher in the league his rookie season? No, and your wrong cuz Smith runs differently than LJ. When Smith subs for LJ it will be great because it will be a change of pace. You also havnt justified why we wasted the 5th overall pick for someone who wont start for years...

            McFadden is about 10x stronger than Reggie Bush, so... what a great comparison by a genius..

            Brown and Zuttah are grade "W" OTs in this draft. I dont care how good or bad you think they are are. They arent. You arent going to sale anyone on a 5th and 6th round OL being great. Wait, your talking about zone blocking? Are you freaking kidding me? Zone blocking? KC runs a straight up bull-rush blocking scheme, no pulling no side stepping you go forward and demolish someone. So you even drafted the wrong kind of bad OL... God this is pathetic. We have 13 OLs, and only 2 of which should start this year. Unfortunatly i'm thinking 3 will unless we trade down, which i could live with but after looking at your draft we would have 4 start.

            None of those players will start besides Pollack by process of elimination.


            Seriously dude, learn something about the team you draft about or read depth charts or something. You cant justify wasting the 5th overall pick on a 4 year back-up, getting a terrible DT, 2 OLBs that will wait for two young good OLBs to get old and leave the team or retire, and 2 OT's that are good for zone blocking... the opposite of what we run.



            Make another long post, i'll just make it simple here...

            1) LJ is fine, no reason to waste any pick on a RB before the 5th round.
            2) Laws is a terrible DT, that wont start on any team, especially a team needing a run stuffing DT.
            3) We HAVE ZERO NEED for OLBs, that is actually the one position, and DE, that we dont need. We have 2 young OLBs that are very good.
            4) Wow, you got some scrub CB that is supposed to start? In case you dont know KC has one CB that has started at least a full season at CB.
            5) You only drafted 3 OL, two of which blow and dont fit our blockign scheme, and a Center... the one decent pick. BTW, good job at getting a starting OG.
            I am stupid. I pushed the wrong button and lost my response. Here is the shorter version.

            "Doesn't have all the physical tools you look for but his intangibles are top-rate...The type who will never be a star and projects as more of a backup in the NFL but could play in the league for a long time and coaches will adore him"

            Opinion, Many disagree...

            "Boone played poorly, now that is a joke. Boone played GREAT for KC last year. Not only did he constantly apply pressure up the middle he actually unlike the rest of DTs could withstand a double team and not get driven back 5 yards."

            Homeristic opinion (capital "GREAT"... come on, get real). Maybe for a poor team, but poor for a good team. Still is 32 and in need of youth and depth. If not replace Edwards. Why draft Tank Tyler (Bust?) if depth is so great.

            "Yeah, Edwards was moved to MLB whe we picked up DeMarrio Williams. Crazy? Your a flipping idiot if you think Avril or Henderson will beat out Derrik Johnson or DeMarrio Williams. The only OLB in this draft that would stand a chance to take DeMarrio Williams job would be Rivers, who wouldnt be worth wasting a pick on because he wont be that much better. I cant believe your calling anyone dillusional after having KC draft 2 OLB when we have 4 guys that could start at OLB on our roster."

            "Idiot"...Why so personal? Like I said, this draft was before the pick up of Williams (please try to read). That leaves 2 LBs and one is on the verge of retirement. Henderson could switch just as well as Edwards, if not he could play WLB. At worst, Avril would be great depth at SBL (and SpTs since he runs a 4.5 40 @ 253lbs).

            "Little to no drop off? So Stewart is going to be atop 3 rusher in the league his rookie season? No, and your wrong cuz Smith runs differently than LJ. When Smith subs for LJ it will be great because it will be a change of pace. You also havnt justified why we wasted the 5th overall pick for someone who wont start for years..."

            That means the chains will keep moving without wearing one or the other out throughout the game or year. It doesn't mean that each will gain 1500yards. Scat back, 3rd down back, "change of pace" back, whatever: he sucks and failed to produce enough for you to champion his play. The Chiefs lost 8 straight games when LJ went out and he only went out because he was being rode so hard. Besides: LJ is questionable, he needs help, play wont drop off like with Smith, no other RB of the same quality later in the draft, and near equal quality later in the draft for other positions. Strong and consistent is better than flash.

            "McFadden is about 10x stronger than Reggie Bush, so... what a great comparison by a genius"

            Look up opinions of Bush before the draft. Deja vu?

            "Brown and Zuttah are grade "W" OTs in this draft. I dont care how good or bad you think they are are. They arent. You arent going to sale anyone on a 5th and 6th round OL being great."

            What does "W" mean? I guess every other scout but you are wrong. People must be talking about them so much because they suck. That was for the placement in the draft, besides I think I was saying that they were among the tops of their positions (especially for zone blocking).

            "Wait, your talking about zone blocking? Are you freaking kidding me? Zone blocking? KC runs a straight up bull-rush blocking scheme, no pulling no side stepping you go forward and demolish someone. So you even drafted the wrong kind of bad OL... God this is pathetic."

            Oh yeah, I brought in Ephraim Salaam to help the transition to zone blocking in FAcy (you probably didn't look that over either).

            Zone Blocking: It seems that every other KC fan knows about it but you…








            so here is a link to educate you…

            The latest fantasy-specific football player news, rankings, projections and more from the leader in fun, easy to play fantasy games with Head2Head competition and big cash prizes.


            I couldn't find the better ones (so long ago)

            "We have 13 OLs, and only 2 of which should start this year. Unfortunatly i'm thinking 3 will unless we trade down, which i could live with but after looking at your draft we would have 4 start."

            So how do you suppose bringing in 6 more rookies to fight for 2 spots (if you are correct) is efficient or smart drafting. (The 2 you think should start + Pollak leaves 2 spots)

            "None of those players will start besides Pollack by process of elimination."

            Biased homerism. You guys really are good and in no need of help. I think all three could start, but probably only two (KCs line is better than you think)

            "Seriously dude, learn something about the team you draft about or read depth charts or something. You cant justify wasting the 5th overall pick on a 4 year back-up, getting a terrible DT, 2 OLBs that will wait for two young good OLBs to get old and leave the team or retire, and 2 OT's that are good for zone blocking... the opposite of what we run."

            After your response I'm positive I have done more research of your team than you. Sure, disagree about the picks, but to say a draft is weak because you think the players suck is just lame. Disacknowledging the weaknesses of your team just to justify your draft is equally lame. At worst KC is old and trying to get young. I've chosen positions where younger players are going to replace older ones or provide depth.

            If you really think all KC needs is CB and OLine then there is no way to talk to you. Why even draft. Most teams that lose 9 in a row have many problems.

            Any way, this was my attempt at trying to fix as many problems of the Chiefs as I could. I am not a KC fan, but I do feel sory for them and only offered my suggestions to help. Even if you don't agree, at least you argued your point instead of pointing a blind finger . Good luck next year (untill we play you of course).
            Last edited by Zanders76; 03-18-2008, 02:45 AM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Zanders76
              How can you get better than this:

              4 Jonathan Stewart RB
              34 Trevor Laws DT
              69 Erin Henderson OLB
              100 Mike Pollak C
              130 Cliff Avril OLB
              160 Zack Bowman CB
              177 Duane Brown OT
              195 Jeremy Zuttah OT
              221 Josh Johnson QB

              Great Draft without all the fake trades and wishful thinking (well, maybe Brown in the 6th).

              As far as Stewart goes: Look at the history of the league for RBs after they have handled excessive carries. LJ didn't play the last 8 games due to injury. He might never be the same. Besides I had Stewart as the best back in the draft for the bruising style offense Herm wants. Why miss him when I can get just as good OL starters later in the draft. Oh yeah, Herm wants to go ZB so its even dumber to spend such high draft spots on OL that wont start immediately and how will you protect your players (RBs & QBs) while you wait for your line to mature. KC will be and is a hard nosed running team and without the type of OLine to do that their gonna take alot of hits. You are gonna need more than one body carring the rock like LJ did in 06'. I could have taken the value pick (at the time) McFadden, but he sucks at the type of run game that Herm wants. Granted KC needs alot of help at OLine, but they weren't as far off as people think from being competative.

              I think about it kinda like Jacksonville: they play the type of football I love (slow and steady.. pounding the rock), luckily so does Herm. With two big and bruising backs, defenses won't have time to rest, while my RBs can. Who knows if LJ will ever be the same, but Stewart should help him get his legs back. We'll extend LJs career as well as enhance and extend Stewarts.

              By waiting on OLine, KC was able to draft defenders that are a better mold for the type of Dfense Herm wants: A shut down type of dfense with Penetrating DTs, QB pressuring DEs, and big (over fast) LB's to shed blockers and make the tackle. I got the 2nd and 3rd best OLBs in the draft, the 2nd or 3rd best DT in the draft, the best RB IMOP, the best Center (the only OL position that will start from day one), 2 very good ZB linemen, and a Mike Vick-like QB with the last pick steal of the draft (i think he might even be better than Vick). The only hole in the draft as far as I see it is CB, but even there I think I got a great deal on a sleeper (besides we have several young CB prospects).

              Kinda like the Ravens in 2000. All dfense and a running game.

              Or may be I should have drafted 4-5 olinemen right away, neglected all other positions of need, started 1 maybe 2 of them (if I was lucky), and then a bunch of scrubs or reaches on dfense.

              This way I fill more holes with quality players. I still got 3 of 5 oline men that I wanted (woulda loved Alberts, but good quality was available later while DT was running thin), added to the stamina of the running game, and got great Dfensivepicks for the front seven. In three years 5-7 of these nine will be starting. Seems good to me.

              This is how you get better then that. I broke down my Atlanta Falcons draft. After around pick 90 or somthing. It went down hill... so all of your picks after 100 are pretty much pointless because they really did not falll that far.

              No offense but Grid is right about your draft. It is horrible for the chiefs... Yet great for the Broncos.

              Atlanta Falcons



              Picks:

              Rd 1, pick 20 (Tampa) Rashard Mendenhall, RB, Illinois

              Rd 2, pick 35 Andre Woodson JR, QB, Kentucky

              Rd 2, pick 46 (Cincinnati Bengals) Early Doucet, WR, LSU

              Rd 2, pick 48 (from Houston) Sam Baker, OT, USC

              Rd 2, pick 51 (Tampa) Jerod Mayo, ILB, Tennessee

              Rd 2, pick 57 (Via SD / Miami) Dre Moore, DT, Maryland

              Rd 2, Pick 62 (NE / Miami) O.Cousins, OT/OG, UTEP

              Rd 3, pick 83 (Tampa) Patrick Lee, CB, Auburn

              Rd 5, pick 131

              Rd 6, pick 161

              Rd 7, pick 192

              Rd 7, pick 214 (from Pittsburgh Steelers)


              Notes:

              Need at RB handled.

              Need at QB handled

              Need at WR handled

              Need at OT handled

              Need at OG handled

              Need at ILB handled (Prospect able to go outside)

              Need at DT handled

              Needs:

              CB (because of depth)

              S (because of age)

              DE (because of age)


              Falcons release:

              QB Byron Leftwich, CB Lewis Sanders, WR Jamin Elliott, LB Marcus Wilkins, DL Rod Coleman, and OT Wayne Gandy.


              Trades:

              3) D. Hall to Miami- #57 & #62

              2) #9 & #101 to Tampa - #20, #51 & #83

              1) #9 & #41 to Bengals - #5 & #66
              Last edited by Nick; 03-18-2008, 08:43 AM.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Zanders76
                I am stupid. I pushed the wrong button and lost my response. Here is the shorter version.

                "Boone played poorly, now that is a joke. Boone played GREAT for KC last year. Not only did he constantly apply pressure up the middle he actually unlike the rest of DTs could withstand a double team and not get driven back 5 yards."

                Homeristic opinion (capital "GREAT"... come on, get real). Maybe for a poor team, but poor for a good team. Still is 32 and in need of youth and depth. If not replace Edwards. Why draft Tank Tyler (Bust?) if depth is so great.
                No, Boone did play great for KC last year. Thats only 1 DT, we all know that and yes we need a DT. We dont need Laws who wont be able to stop any OG in the game from barreling overing his small size. Right position, wrong player. Laws wont make it in the NFL has a starter.

                "Yeah, Edwards was moved to MLB whe we picked up DeMarrio Williams. Crazy? Your a flipping idiot if you think Avril or Henderson will beat out Derrik Johnson or DeMarrio Williams. The only OLB in this draft that would stand a chance to take DeMarrio Williams job would be Rivers, who wouldnt be worth wasting a pick on because he wont be that much better. I cant believe your calling anyone dillusional after having KC draft 2 OLB when we have 4 guys that could start at OLB on our roster."

                "Idiot"...Why so personal? Like I said, this draft was before the pick up of Williams (please try to read). That leaves 2 LBs and one is on the verge of retirement. Henderson could switch just as well as Edwards, if not he could play WLB. At worst, Avril would be great depth at SBL (and SpTs since he runs a 4.5 40 @ 253lbs).
                About the time of this draft took place it was well known Carl Peterson was looking to add a OLB to our team, and DeMarrio Williams was the most common target. Maybe you didn't know alright, so you can have a slide for taking a OLB, oh thats right we got 2.

                Look up opinions of Bush before the draft. Deja vu?

                "Brown and Zuttah are grade "W" OTs in this draft. I dont care how good or bad you think they are are. They arent. You arent going to sale anyone on a 5th and 6th round OL being great."

                What does "W" mean? I guess every other scout but you are wrong. People must be talking about them so much because they suck. That was for the placement in the draft, besides I think I was saying that they were among the tops of their positions (especially for zone blocking).
                Your right people are all over 5th and 6th round OTs, man i forgot... 5th and 6th round OTs are soo much better than the first or second round ones. We should actually trade our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd picks to get more 5th and 6th rounds picks seeming the players are soo good.

                "Wait, your talking about zone blocking? Are you freaking kidding me? Zone blocking? KC runs a straight up bull-rush blocking scheme, no pulling no side stepping you go forward and demolish someone. So you even drafted the wrong kind of bad OL... God this is pathetic."

                Oh yeah, I brought in Ephraim Salaam to help the transition to zone blocking in FAcy (you probably didn't look that over either).

                Zone Blocking: It seems that every other KC fan knows about it but you…








                so here is a link to educate you…

                http://www.head2head.com/football/salarycap/player/6688
                All those rumors which they said they were in the articles, were shot down when Herm Edwards decide to cut Wiegmen because he was too small to to handle the straight up and down vertical blocking scheme KC uses. All of those rumors were ended when we let al of our mobile OL leave because they arent the guys we look for.

                I find it best, that half of those articles up there are quoting Jason Whitlock THINKING that the Chiefs might switch... not KC actually switching but Jason Whitlock thinking they might.

                But in case you dont know, when anyone refers to Zone Blocking as in describing a player's style or a system in the NFL they are referring to a 2on1 zone blocking scheme in which ONLY Denver runs. In reality everyone runs a Zone Blocking scheme in which your goal is to hit someone and get to the second level, only in the 2on1 idea you use smaller faster OL. Kansas City isnt after smaller faster OL, so the idea of them using the 2on1 is redundant because it goes against who they are looking at. See we dont like Ryan Clady, but we like Jeff Otah. Whats the biggest difference between the two? Otah is massive, Clady is not. The guys you refer to fit the Denver blocking scheme... Now why do you think that they will fit KC's blocking? Because you read KC wants to run ZB, well here is a newsflash... KC ran ZB with Vermiel here. Still not the 2on1, but it was ZB. Did you know it was? No, because you cant tell. It looks like normal blocking the only difference is theory its zone blocking. It shouldnt even be called zone blocking until people realize that Denver runs a 2on1 ZB, and there about 49 different ZB systems in college/NFL. So back on point, KC's blocking sheme, despite what Whitlock will call is going to be no different than when we had Vermiel as a coach, only we will have less pulling (Hence releasing Wiegmen). So your two OLs that you have us drafting, will make little impact in how we play. They wont get teh 2on1s, they will be 1on1 and be expected to get to the next level.

                I couldn't find the better ones (so long ago)

                "We have 13 OLs, and only 2 of which should start this year. Unfortunatly i'm thinking 3 will unless we trade down, which i could live with but after looking at your draft we would have 4 start."

                So how do you suppose bringing in 6 more rookies to fight for 2 spots (if you are correct) is efficient or smart drafting. (The 2 you think should start + Pollak leaves 2 spots)
                LT -
                LG- Waters
                C- Whoever we draft (Pollak)
                RG-
                RT- McIntosh (Should be here, but when you get two OTs in the 5th and 6th round he will have to play LT... If you see my mock draft, i have us only taking 4 or 5 OL. I hope 3 can start next year (Including the Center we draft). And I hope within 3 years that 4 of them will start but i doubt it will happen. Out of this draft we need 2 starters on the OL not including the Center. You got us a career RT if they live up to thier potentiol, leaving us with a poor LT once again.

                "None of those players will start besides Pollack by process of elimination."

                Biased homerism. You guys really are good and in no need of help. I think all three could start, but probably only two (KCs line is better than you think)
                Biased homerism? I am being a homer by saying our OL sucks? We have the worst OL in the history of the NFL. And you made it no better with the draft, besides the fact that we have a center now.

                "Seriously dude, learn something about the team you draft about or read depth charts or something. You cant justify wasting the 5th overall pick on a 4 year back-up, getting a terrible DT, 2 OLBs that will wait for two young good OLBs to get old and leave the team or retire, and 2 OT's that are good for zone blocking... the opposite of what we run."

                After your response I'm positive I have done more research of your team than you. Sure, disagree about the picks, but to say a draft is weak because you think the players suck is just lame. Disacknowledging the weaknesses of your team just to justify your draft is equally lame. At worst KC is old and trying to get young. I've chosen positions where younger players are going to replace older ones or provide depth.
                Know more than me? You are taking what Jason Whitlock says as law... If Whitlock ran KC we'd have a completely different team. I dont dislike the picks, besides Law, because they suck... The basis of the pick SUCKS. OLBs arent needed, two late round OTs wont do us a damn thing, not getting a CB worth a damn or a WR thats any good is just plain retarded.

                If you really think all KC needs is CB and OLine then there is no way to talk to you. Why even draft. Most teams that lose 9 in a row have many problems
                I think we need OL, CB, WR, QB, DT, TE in that order. Your adressing of the biggest issue is a non factor. YOu didnt adress CB except with a 4th round "I like the guy" pick, you got no WR you got a QB and i dont have a problem with that, and DT Laws isnt the kind of DT we need so another bad pick.
                You didnt fix any problem, the only problems you might have fixed would be if one of the OTs step up and play out of thier mind. The point of the draft is to fix problems, not to only get guys that might start 4 years down the road.

                Any way, this was my attempt at trying to fix as many problems of the Chiefs as I could. I am not a KC fan, but I do feel sory for them and only offered my suggestions to help. Even if you don't agree, at least you argued your point instead of pointing a blind finger . Good luck next year (untill we play you of course).

                Can you make longer posts please....


                You have reasons for your picks, so its not as blind picking as it seemed. But the reasons are still absurd. You have a reason for your draft, so i honestly shouldnt have said anything...

                Still gets an F for the draft, but an A for the effort.
                Club Leader: Robert Griffin III > Andrew Luck

                ^^^Get used to it.^^^

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Nick
                  This is how you get better then that. I broke down my Atlanta Falcons draft. After around pick 90 or somthing. It went down hill... so all of your picks after 100 are pretty much pointless because they really did not falll that far.

                  No offense but Grid is right about your draft. It is horrible for the chiefs... Yet great for the Broncos.

                  Atlanta Falcons



                  Picks:

                  Rd 1, pick 20 (Tampa) Rashard Mendenhall, RB, Illinois

                  Rd 2, pick 35 Andre Woodson JR, QB, Kentucky

                  Rd 2, pick 46 (Cincinnati Bengals) Early Doucet, WR, LSU

                  Rd 2, pick 48 (from Houston) Sam Baker, OT, USC

                  Rd 2, pick 51 (Tampa) Jerod Mayo, ILB, Tennessee

                  Rd 2, pick 57 (Via SD / Miami) Dre Moore, DT, Maryland

                  Rd 2, Pick 62 (NE / Miami) O.Cousins, OT/OG, UTEP

                  Rd 3, pick 83 (Tampa) Patrick Lee, CB, Auburn

                  Rd 5, pick 131

                  Rd 6, pick 161

                  Rd 7, pick 192

                  Rd 7, pick 214 (from Pittsburgh Steelers)


                  Notes:

                  Need at RB handled.

                  Need at QB handled

                  Need at WR handled

                  Need at OT handled

                  Need at OG handled

                  Need at ILB handled (Prospect able to go outside)

                  Need at DT handled

                  Needs:

                  CB (because of depth)

                  S (because of age)

                  DE (because of age)


                  Falcons release:

                  QB Byron Leftwich, CB Lewis Sanders, WR Jamin Elliott, LB Marcus Wilkins, DL Rod Coleman, and OT Wayne Gandy.


                  Trades:

                  3) D. Hall to Miami- #57 & #62

                  2) #9 & #101 to Tampa - #20, #51 & #83

                  1) #9 & #41 to Bengals - #5 & #66

                  See, while its not the Greatest draft ever, you took it from the mindset of Atlanta and made a good draft for them. Picks make sense, need positions got handled with players that might fit the area...

                  But in all fairness he has "some form of logic" to back-up his picks for KC, so i probably overreacted because to me it looks bad.
                  Club Leader: Robert Griffin III > Andrew Luck

                  ^^^Get used to it.^^^

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Nick
                    This is how you get better then that. I broke down my Atlanta Falcons draft. After around pick 90 or somthing. It went down hill... so all of your picks after 100 are pretty much pointless because they really did not falll that far.

                    No offense but Grid is right about your draft. It is horrible for the chiefs... Yet great for the Broncos.

                    Atlanta Falcons



                    Picks:

                    Rd 1, pick 20 (Tampa) Rashard Mendenhall, RB, Illinois

                    Rd 2, pick 35 Andre Woodson JR, QB, Kentucky

                    Rd 2, pick 46 (Cincinnati Bengals) Early Doucet, WR, LSU

                    Rd 2, pick 48 (from Houston) Sam Baker, OT, USC

                    Rd 2, pick 51 (Tampa) Jerod Mayo, ILB, Tennessee

                    Rd 2, pick 57 (Via SD / Miami) Dre Moore, DT, Maryland

                    Rd 2, Pick 62 (NE / Miami) O.Cousins, OT/OG, UTEP

                    Rd 3, pick 83 (Tampa) Patrick Lee, CB, Auburn

                    Rd 5, pick 131

                    Rd 6, pick 161

                    Rd 7, pick 192

                    Rd 7, pick 214 (from Pittsburgh Steelers)


                    Notes:

                    Need at RB handled.

                    Need at QB handled

                    Need at WR handled

                    Need at OT handled

                    Need at OG handled

                    Need at ILB handled (Prospect able to go outside)

                    Need at DT handled

                    Needs:

                    CB (because of depth)

                    S (because of age)

                    DE (because of age)


                    Falcons release:

                    QB Byron Leftwich, CB Lewis Sanders, WR Jamin Elliott, LB Marcus Wilkins, DL Rod Coleman, and OT Wayne Gandy.


                    Trades:

                    3) D. Hall to Miami- #57 & #62

                    2) #9 & #101 to Tampa - #20, #51 & #83

                    1) #9 & #41 to Bengals - #5 & #66
                    I see what your saying, but you got 9 day one picks. With that many picks it is easy to take what you want. I had to use the draft differently. Everybody I talked to about trades didn't want to move down that far (even some of the people that went lower than KCs position).

                    Its true that some of my picks wouldn't be available at the given slots, but they were adjusted to the unrealistic trends that were going on. You knew players would fall because players that should have been at those spots were taken too early (Stewart). But we knew how it would go before we started. If this wasn't a Broncos thread I would have chosen differently because I knew all the players that the GMs liked and how much they graded them. I believe that I got several good players because I was in the position to draft them before other GMs did. I also got better value later because I knew that they were overlooking or undervaluing certain players.

                    Except for Bowman. I jumped on Bowman because he was the last CB with starter potential, although it was a strech. There was no longer any value with waiting so I jumped. Who would have thought all those CBs would go so high (talk about a strech).

                    Comment

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