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  • #31
    Originally posted by Momentum View Post
    I wouldnt mind going DT in the first (Balmer) and second (Sims). We need help there THAT badly first and foremost.
    We can not sacrifice the season with adding so much to one position, if we take a defensive tackle in the draft we likely will not draft more then one more if even that in the latter rounds. We would more likely start the same line as last year, so if it comes down to it I think Shanahan will trade even a day one pick next year for a veteran.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by RyversEtrain View Post
      I don't see Rodgers as Gerard Warren part 2. He is a great tackle who has been to Pro Bowls. You still can't say that about Warren. He is a huge upgrade over what we have and we better hope we have him on our team next year.

      Physically, both players have all the talent in the world. The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. Warren arguably should have made the Pro Bowl his first season in Denver, but he wasn't popular enough.

      Detroit has a top notch coach in Rod Marinelli. They wanted to build their D-line around Rogers and Cory Redding. Now, Marinelli, whom is a player's coach and runs a scheme that needs a large bodied DT like Rogers, can't get Rogers out of Detroit fast enough. Why? Because he's a "me-first" player that objected to practicing hard and dedicating himself to the team. He makes enough money, it's all about effort and discipline, and he can't keep himself in shape and he doesn't want to play hard.

      Gerrard Warren was the same way. When he was traded from Cleveland, he was motivated enough to play hard for a year. Once he got the big bucks, he went back to being a bust. Rogers is the same way. He played hard one year, got paid, and disappeared.

      And you want this guy? Why?

      Do you think Shanahan is going to motivate him to play hard year in and year out? Nobody ever can. Rogers came out of college with attitude and laziness issues, and once he got his first paycheck in the Pro's, he reverted back to that form once again.

      So, I'll need to understand how Shaun Rogers is any different from Gerrard Warren, as they appear to be identical twins in every way.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Momentum View Post
        I wouldnt mind going DT in the first (Balmer) and second (Sims). We need help there THAT badly first and foremost.

        Balmer is a one-year wonder. He's a massive risk v. reward guy. Is he the decent player he was as a senior? Or is he the invisible guy he was his first 3 seasons.

        I understand he's apparently locked in as the #3 DT in this draft, but I'd put him *behind* Trevor Laws and Pat Sims for certain, and possibly behind Dre Moore as well.

        I do not trust one year wonders in the 1st Round. And if I'm going with a 1 year wonder, I'm going with Laws whom I can get in the 2nd Round.

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        • #34
          MUG, I know people don't like the idea of Rogers coming to Denver, which is fine, but I need to understand how somebody would rather have Trevor Laws than Shaun Rogers.

          I watch Notre Dame once a year, whether I like it or not, he didn't impress me much......Is Laws that good? Is he worth a 2nd round pick? Cause everything I've read about him says he'll never start in the NFL, and that he too, is a one year wonder.

          To me, 6'-0"/297 doesn't exactly inspire dreams of Pat Williams, it inspires memories of the 2nd round pick Denver wasted on Montae Reagor.

          I'll take a Shaun Rogers/Gerrard Warren going 100% most of the time over Rudy Ruettiger going all out all the time......
          Last edited by stnzed; 02-20-2008, 07:44 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by lancane View Post
            We can not sacrifice the season with adding so much to one position, if we take a defensive tackle in the draft we likely will not draft more then one more if even that in the latter rounds. We would more likely start the same line as last year, so if it comes down to it I think Shanahan will trade even a day one pick next year for a veteran.
            Is Corey Williams worth losing a shot at Moreno, Percy Harvin, and Mike Crabtree?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Momentum View Post
              Is Corey Williams worth losing a shot at Moreno, Percy Harvin, and Mike Crabtree?
              as well as Rey Maualuga, James Laurinaitis, and Myron Rolle?

              I don't think so.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Max Power View Post
                as well as Rey Maualuga, James Laurinaitis, and Myron Rolle?

                I don't think so.
                Hahaha...you guys are funny, we would have to have a top 15 pick to nab most of those you guys are talking about, and besides I said a day one pick, like a second rounder...not a blimey first round pick, that would be utterly stupid.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Momentum View Post
                  Is Corey Williams worth losing a shot at Moreno, Percy Harvin, and Mike Crabtree?
                  We have very little chance at Moreno...lmfao. He is only one of the top backs for next years draft and will likely be a top five to top ten pick...

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by lancane View Post
                    We have very little chance at Moreno...lmfao. He is only one of the top backs for next years draft and will likely be a top five to top ten pick...
                    Well, there's always LeSean McCoy, Chris Wells, and James Davis. Possibly guys like Javarris James and C.J. Spiller as well.

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                    • #40
                      Stop acting as if you know what our record will be next year.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by stnzed View Post
                        MUG, I know people don't like the idea of Rogers coming to Denver, which is fine, but I need to understand how somebody would rather have Trevor Laws than Shaun Rogers.

                        I watch Notre Dame once a year, whether I like it or not, he didn't impress me much......Is Laws that good? Is he worth a 2nd round pick? Cause everything I've read about him says he'll never start in the NFL, and that he too, is a one year wonder.

                        To me, 6'-0"/297 doesn't exactly inspire dreams of Pat Williams, it inspires memories of the 2nd round pick Denver wasted on Montae Reagor.

                        I'll take a Shaun Rogers/Gerrard Warren going 100% most of the time over Rudy Ruettiger going all out all the time......

                        Well, I'd prefer Frank Okam, as I prefer the larger DT type akin to Shaun Rogers. However, it is not likely that we run the type of scheme that will use a Shaun Rogers effectively, let alone a Frank Okam, so I've backed off the big Nose Tackle theory even though I believe in it strongly.


                        So, Reason #1 why I like Trevor Laws over Shaun Rogers is that he should fit our scheme perfectly. A high motor guy that will play the 3-technique and never have to leave the field except in goal line packages. Shaun Rogers is a conditional player that has to be spelled often, probably due to his poor conditioning, which leads to Reason #2.


                        Reason #2 is that Trevor Laws would do everything short of dying to play football on Sunday for 60 minutes. Shaun Rogers does not care except to receive his paycheck. Heart and motivation is a big factor with me. Laws has it in spades, Rogers does not.


                        Reason #3. Trevor Laws is incredibly smart. Frank Okam is incredibly smart. I love incredibly smart players. Shaun Rogers is slightly smarter then a brick. Smarter players tend to have a higher level of class off the field, they tend to digest the playbook faster and contribute faster, and most importantly, they tend to understand that giving yourself 100% to the game of football leads to future opportunites when your time in the game is done.


                        Reason #4. Finances. Trevor Laws will be much, much cheaper.


                        Reason #5. Age/durability. Trevor Laws is younger and has no chronic injury history as does Rogers, whose ankles are apparently dehabilitating.


                        Reason #6. Production. Trevor Laws had the most dominating season by a defensive lineman probably in college history, especially for a DT (or 3-4 DE). And, Trevor Laws looked dominating during the Senior Bowl week against top players, elevating his stock further into the early-mid 2nd round area.


                        Reason #7. Reputation. Charlies Weis can't sell Trevor Laws hard or fast enough. He loves the guy. Laws was "the leader" on Notre Dame, the team loves the guy. Shaun Rogers is depised by the same group of coaches that tried to make him the centerpiece of their defense just last season. He was despised by the former Lions coaches as a malcontent and lazy bum. Rogers has a horrific reputation. Laws is angelic in comparison.



                        That is why I would take Trevor Laws over Shaun Rogers.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Momentum View Post
                          Stop acting as if you know what our record will be next year.
                          Keep up your dim yet unwitting answers and confrontational ways and I am sure you will be on another vacation soon...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
                            Physically, both players have all the talent in the world. The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. Warren arguably should have made the Pro Bowl his first season in Denver, but he wasn't popular enough.

                            Detroit has a top notch coach in Rod Marinelli. They wanted to build their D-line around Rogers and Cory Redding. Now, Marinelli, whom is a player's coach and runs a scheme that needs a large bodied DT like Rogers, can't get Rogers out of Detroit fast enough. Why? Because he's a "me-first" player that objected to practicing hard and dedicating himself to the team. He makes enough money, it's all about effort and discipline, and he can't keep himself in shape and he doesn't want to play hard.

                            Gerrard Warren was the same way. When he was traded from Cleveland, he was motivated enough to play hard for a year. Once he got the big bucks, he went back to being a bust. Rogers is the same way. He played hard one year, got paid, and disappeared.

                            And you want this guy? Why?

                            Do you think Shanahan is going to motivate him to play hard year in and year out? Nobody ever can. Rogers came out of college with attitude and laziness issues, and once he got his first paycheck in the Pro's, he reverted back to that form once again.

                            So, I'll need to understand how Shaun Rogers is any different from Gerrard Warren, as they appear to be identical twins in every way.
                            Warren first of all, never played at a Pro Bowl level. Our Denver media says things like that to get us riled up. Are you saying that Rodgers is more popularand well liked than Warren and thats why he made the Pro Bowl? How many Lions make the Pro Bowl on popularity? Barry Sanders,but e desered it. That's about it. He was a second round pick versus Warren who was the 3rd overall pick. That immediately makes Warren more well known. Warren also had a reputation as a jerk when he made comments about decapitating Big Ben of the Steelers. He has made the Pro Bowl twice which is usually no fluke. He got his big contract in 2004 and then made the Pro Bowl in 2005 and 2006 which doesn't sound like a guy that quits after he gets his payday. He is a playmaker on the field as we saw when he took a Cutler interception back for a TD last year. He does a lot of things beyond being a normal defensive tackle which make him more valuable to his team. No active player in the league has blocked more kicks than him ( 10 fg and 1 PAT ) but people seem to want to label him as lazy because he had a bad second half last year. He is far more productive at every level than Warren ever was and he could come cheap for us. Especially given our need and what is available, I would love to have him. He is most likely going to be a part of a rotation in Denver anyway which will help with him wearing down at the end of the year as some people say he tends to do. Show me where Marinelli called him a me first player. Detroit is a horribly run franchise from the very top. They are rumored to be shopping their WR Williams too which doesn't seem smart to me either. They traded Dre Bly last year to us for a couple of throw away players who didn't work out for us and look how much production he gave us. Don't you think it's possible they could be making a mistake here too? I respectfully disagree with your comparison to Gerard Warren on these grounds.

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                            • #44
                              If Trevor Laws is the type of tackle (6'-0" /297) that fits the scheme Denver will be running, then God help us.

                              You are clearly sold on Laws, but DT's that small have a hard time translating college production to the NFL, no matter how smart they are.

                              And he may be the only down lineman to have 100 tackles this year......but 4 sacks, 8 tackles for loss and 7 QB pressures is hardly the most dominating performance by a DLman in college history.

                              Sorry, no offense, but that's pure hyperbole.

                              Btw, a college coach trying to get players drafted as high as possible is nothing new. That's not why you draft a player that small in the second round, imo.

                              You draft em that high because they're special enough to overcome their lack of size......

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Trevor Laws starting on a defensive line that will also start one Elvis Dumervil (5-11/260) will not improve much against the run, imo, LT will set all kinds of records.

                                If this is how Shanahan sees the Broncos defense, it will not work, Denver is too small and weak as it is......
                                Last edited by stnzed; 02-20-2008, 08:36 PM.

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