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  • #46
    Look At THe Numbers

    The reality is, this is where the Broncos have gotten into trouble in the past...by reaching for draft picks that don't justify their selection, and over-paying for Free Agents that aren't worth the coin.

    The Broncos have three DT's that they know they can go into the season with next year in Alvin McKinley, Marcus Thomas and Stephen Harris...Thomas and Harris will be expected to improve in their second year, and McKinley is solid, even if he is never going to be spectacular.

    The team will typically only keep four DT's, so if you figure in a selection in this Draft, you at least have your four.

    This is what Shanny's Drafting has reaped, so it now shall sow...now you have to be patient, and see what you have with Thomas and Harris, otherwise, your only choice is to overpay (once again) in free Agency, which is a road leading to nowhere...

    So, I say, keep the three DT's we have, add another rookie or two, and suck it up.
    Unfortunately, there is no magic formula...when you see how much money Corey freakin' Williams is going to get paid, you know Defensive Tackle is a woefully undermanned position, NFL-wide.

    It's time for the Broncos to stay the course, pay their dues, and develop their own through the Draft.
    Last edited by MindField; 02-20-2008, 09:06 PM.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by lancane View Post
      Keep up your dim yet unwitting answers and confrontational ways and I am sure you will be on another vacation soon...

      Only because you have somehow brainwashed this board with your crock of Mendenhall bull.

      I dont care, really.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by MindField View Post
        The reality is, this is where the Broncos have gotten into trouble in the past...by reaching for draft picks that don't justify their selection, and over-paying for Free Agents that aren't worth the coin.

        The Broncos have three DT's that they know they can go into the season with next year in Alvin McKinley, Marcus Thomas and Stephen Harris...Thomas and Harris will be expected to improve in their second year, and McKinley is solid, even if he is never going to be spectacular.

        The team will typically only keep four DT's, so if you figure in a selection in this Draft, you at least have your four.

        This is what Shanny's Drafting has reaped, so it now shall sow...now you have to be patient, and see what you have with Thomas and Harris, otherwise, your only choice is to overpay (once again) in free Agency, which is a road leading to nowhere...

        So, I say, keep the three DT's we have, add another rookie or two, and suck it up.
        Unfortunately, there is no magic formula...when you see how much money Corey freakin' Williams is going to get paid, you know Defensive Tackle is a woefully undermanned position, NFL-wide.

        It's time for the Broncos to stay the course, pay their dues, and develop their own through the Draft.





        that my friend is a very intelligent post......


        here is to getting 3 picks in the 1st 2 rds, shanny please trade with tampa for the 20th and 52nd picks so we can get the following

        pick 20 - OL Jeff Otah or OL Chris Williams
        Pick 42- DT Trevor Laws or Dre Moore
        Pick 52 - OLB Erin henderson or Phillip wheeler



        that would make me very happy

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Momentum View Post
          Only because you have somehow brainwashed this board with your crock of Mendenhall bull.

          I dont care, really.
          Now I have brainwashed the mods...hahaha, or maybe your own attitude, quarrelsome nonesense and hostile barrage has something to do with it. You have recently been confrotational with almost every person who mentions they would like to see a first round halfback taken by the Broncos, in particularly Mendenhall. Instead of just stating your own notions, you continue to lack a sense of tact for others own opinions. Look at your sig, it is neither positive or meant to be constructive of your own thoughts but made strictly to cause strife.

          And maybe you do not care whether or not you are suspended from the boards. Or for that fact by what you do, but some of us do...on several threads you have been combative with many posters who have not only contributed to this board far more then you, but have tried to post in a positive manner of why they believe something and instead you continue your nonesense.

          Last edited by lancane; 02-21-2008, 12:07 AM.

          Comment


          • #50
            No offense to yall that thought Williams would make it out of GB without getting tagged. but you are crazy. The guy is worth a 1st round pick. I dont know if i would trade ours but he is worth it. Imagine him in Denver and tell me you would let him go with out TRYING to get some sort of compensation for him.
            The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
            While he sits by his hearth at home.
            Quickly finds when questioned by others .
            That he knows nothing at all.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by lancane View Post
              Now I have brainwashed the mods...hahaha, or maybe your own attitude, quarrelsome nonesense and hostile barrage has something to do with it. You have recently been confrotational with almost every person who mentions they would like to see a first round halfback taken by the Broncos, in particularly Mendenhall. Instead of just stating your own notions, you continue to lack a sense of tact for others own opinions. Look at your sig, it is neither positive or meant to be constructive of your own thoughts but made strictly to cause strife.

              And maybe you do not care whether or not you are suspended from the boards. Or for that fact by what you do, but some of us do...on several threads you have been combative with many posters who have not only contributed to this board far more then you, but have tried to post in a positive manner of why they believe something and instead you continue your nonesense.


              Hey guys incase you forgot that this is a DT THREAD not a Mendenhall thread. Can we please keep it on topic. Also why dont you guys try the ignore function cause i am sure sick of hearing you guys cackle like hens
              The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
              While he sits by his hearth at home.
              Quickly finds when questioned by others .
              That he knows nothing at all.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Broncosinindy View Post
                No offense to yall that thought Williams would make it out of GB without getting tagged. but you are crazy. The guy is worth a 1st round pick. I dont know if i would trade ours but he is worth it. Imagine him in Denver and tell me you would let him go with out TRYING to get some sort of compensation for him.
                Corey Williams is roughly the same type of player we hope Marcus Thomas will become...they are similar players, style-wise and they have similar physical builds. Williams was a fourth round pick out of Arkansas St...that hotbed of NFL talent....and now he is going to be paid a King's ranson, and I am telling you folks, HE AIN'T WORTH IT!!! Good player, but a 'Franchis' player???

                Not freaking hardly.

                Why would we want to break the bank for him, and in the process, possibly short-circuit the development of Marcus Thomas? After all, they would be essentially playing the same positon, and do not compliment each other very well...I just don't get it.

                Tha Packers are where they are today because they Drafted and developed Williams, along with Cullen Jenkins, Aaron Kampman, etc, none of which were high draft picks...neither were the Giants D-Linemen for the most part, and they seem to be everybody's flavor of the month right now...

                The lesson to be learned here is what we are seeing from the Broncos, and personally, I hope they stay the course and don't freak out, over-react and over-pay for marginal talent...ala Lionel Dalton.

                We are seeing the results of drafting Elvis Dumervil now...and we TRADED UP and sacrificed draft picks for Jarvis Moss and Marcus Thomas. We spent a second round pick on Tim Crowder, and we may have found an undrafted gem in Stephen Harris, who I believe is going to a factor on our D-Line, and not just some scrub washout....now add to that another player or two through the Draft, and we could start to see major progress on the D-Line as soon as this year.

                Patience, my friends....patience.

                Just say NO to undertalented, over-paid Free Agents....the 'Mercenary' mentality has not served us well.
                Last edited by MindField; 02-21-2008, 09:36 AM.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by stnzed View Post
                  MUG, I know people don't like the idea of Rogers coming to Denver, which is fine, but I need to understand how somebody would rather have Trevor Laws than Shaun Rogers.

                  I watch Notre Dame once a year, whether I like it or not, he didn't impress me much......Is Laws that good? Is he worth a 2nd round pick? Cause everything I've read about him says he'll never start in the NFL, and that he too, is a one year wonder.

                  To me, 6'-0"/297 doesn't exactly inspire dreams of Pat Williams, it inspires memories of the 2nd round pick Denver wasted on Montae Reagor.

                  I'll take a Shaun Rogers/Gerrard Warren going 100% most of the time over Rudy Ruettiger going all out all the time......
                  Laws is cheaper, younger, a better teammate in the locker room, gives much better effort, and stylistically, is a real interesting player.

                  His deal is penetration and quickness...think Russell Maryland with the 90's Cowboys. What you hope to gain from him is a real quick, change of pace guy to go with some bigger DT types that would accentuate his quickness, which is why he would go great with Okam, for example.

                  More than anything, you have to have a variety of players that can do a variety of things, but DT's like Laws have been very effective in the NFL, such as Maryland. Also, our SB D-Line used that same skill-set with Maa Tanuvasa...LeRoy Golver was a similar player for years with the Cowboys and went to a few Pro Bowls in the process...as did the Vikings John Randall....the Buccaneers have had fantastic success with this typew of D-Lineman.

                  There is certainly room for a player like Laws, provided he is mixed in with the right combination of players...and I will say thins, he will never be accused of taking downs off and playing lazy, all the while looking for his next spot in a buffet line, unlike some other DT's I cam name...

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by MindField View Post
                    Corey Williams is roughly the same type of player we hope Marcus Thomas will become...they are similar players, style-wise and they have similar physical builds. Williams was a fourth round pick out of Arkansas St...that hotbed of NFL talent....and now he is going to be paid a King's ranson, and I am telling you folks, HE AIN'T WORTH IT!!! Good player, but a 'Franchis' player???

                    Not freaking hardly.

                    Why would we want to break the bank for him, and in the process, possibly short-circuit the development of Marcus Thomas? After all, they would be essentially playing the same positon, and do not compliment each other very well...I just don't get it.

                    Tha Packers are where they are today because they Drafted and developed Williams, along with Cullen Jenkins, Aaron Kampman, etc, none of which were high draft picks...neither were the Giants D-Linemen for the most part, and they seem to be everybody's flavor of the month right now...

                    The lesson to be learned here is what we are seeing from the Broncos, and personally, I hope they stay the course and don't freak out, over-react and over-pay for marginal talent...ala Lionel Dalton.

                    We are seeing the results of drafting Elvis Dumervil now...and we TRADED UP and sacrificed draft picks for Jarvis Moss and Marcus Thomas. We spent a second round pick on Tim Crowder, and we may have found an undrafted gem in Stephen Harris, who I believe is going to a factor on our D-Line, and not just some scrub washout....now add to that another player or two through the Draft, and we could start to see major progress on the D-Line as soon as this year.

                    Patience, my friends....patience.

                    Just say NO to undertalented, over-paid Free Agents....the 'Mercenary' mentality has not served us well.
                    Great post! I couldn't agree more about getting our DTs through the draft and not going crazy if we don't get one in the first round.
                    Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I agree that we will only keep maybe 5 Dt's but we need more vets in that mix.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
                        You're advocating a LB in Round 2, but whom is going to available that fits our 4-3 scheme? And more importantly, whom is going to be good value in the Top 2nd at LB? Curtis Lofton will be gone, as will Dan Connor and Keith Rivers. Do you want a sub-220lb guy in Ali Highsmith or Xavier Adibi? Why not just keep Ian Gold then?

                        LB is poor value in the top 2nd. Best value will likely be DT (specifically Sims, Laws, and Moore), CB, QB, WR, TE, and OG.

                        I think there's a chance Curtis Lofton falls to us. BUT, let's say that Rivers, Connor and Lofton are gone...

                        Why not Erin Henderson? Maryland pumps out good LBs... His brother EJ is good. He's got all the tools.

                        Why not Goff? Very reliable MLB... a tackling machine. HUGE.

                        Why not Mayo? Last LB from TENN worked out well for us.

                        Why not Wheeler? A true play-making potential star!

                        Why not Ezra Butler?


                        Oh... by the way... Highsmith is almost 230 pounds and looked good in the Sr. Bowl!



                        I do agree... that... LB and DT... both have a pool of potential 1-2 round talent... a bunch of busts sprinkled w/ some future Pro Bowl talent... After that... Really nothing of any value until rounds 5-6.


                        I just think... the aforementioned LBs... are safer bets than most of those DTs you refer to. NOW... if we want a DT... Just grab Balmer in the first and hope we find gold.


                        I don't really like Sims, Moore, Bryant or Okam.

                        Of course... I really hope Curtis Lofton falls to us. He would be my first choice. BUT... even if he's not there... I would still rather have Henderson or Goff over Sims, Bryany or Okam.
                        Last edited by fraguela09; 02-21-2008, 01:05 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          PLUS... call me crazy... I like the 4-6 round DTs better... I know... Laws-Okam might not fall... BUt... still... you get my point!

                          Trevor Laws
                          Kendall Langford
                          Frank Okam
                          Nick Hayden
                          Jason Shirley
                          James Mcclinton
                          Frank Morton


                          We already have Thomas, Harris, Malalrd, Peterson, Mckinley. GIve me two of these in rounds 4 & 5. Let's go to war!

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by fraguela09 View Post
                            I think there's a chance Curtis Lofton falls to us. BUT, let's say that Rivers, Connor and Lofton are gone...

                            Why not Erin Henderson? Maryland pumps out good LBs... His brother EJ is good. He's got all the tools.

                            Why not Goff? Very reliable MLB... a tackling machine. HUGE.

                            Why not Mayo? Last LB from TENN worked out well for us.

                            Why not Wheeler? A true play-making potential star!

                            Why not Ezra Butler?


                            Oh... by the way... Highsmith is almost 230 pounds and looked good in the Sr. Bowl!



                            I do agree... that... LB and DT... both have a pool of potential 1-2 round talent... a bunch of busts sprinkled w/ some future Pro Bowl talent... After that... Really nothing of any value until rounds 5-6.


                            I just think... the aforementioned LBs... are safer bets than most of those DTs you refer to. NOW... if we want a DT... Just grab Balmer in the first and hope we find gold.


                            I don't really like Sims, Moore, Bryant or Okam.

                            Of course... I really hope Curtis Lofton falls to us. He would be my first choice. BUT... even if he's not there... I would still rather have Henderson or Goff over Sims, Bryany or Okam.

                            Well, now we are getting into what "position" of linebacker will the Broncos take? I'm in the camp of leaving DJ at MIKE, I think he's terrible at WILL.

                            Alot of the guys you listed are MIKEs, whether in a 4-3 or 3-4. Wheeler and Henderson are very likely ILBs in a 3-4 defense. Wheeler could play MIKE in the 4-3. I wouldn't put either at WILL. Wheeler could be gone when we pick anyhow. Butler is going to be an OLB in the 3-4 or possibly a MIKE in the 4-3, but that's doubtful. He's also a definite 3rd Round selection at best. Goff is a 4th Rounder at MIKE at best since he's undersized.


                            So, out of your linebackers, that leaves only Jerod Mayo as a potential player at WILL. The problem is that he played MIKE in college and probably projects as an ILB in the 3-4.


                            I think that if we go LB in Round 2, it would have to be Ali Highsmith or Xavier Adibi. I think one of those guys definitely goes to the Rams at the top of the Round whom need an OLB badly to start immediately. I think that's likely to be Highsmith. So, Adibi might be available. I'd rather keep Ian Gold.


                            Now, if the team wants to move DJ back to WILL (God help us), then your LB in the early 2nd stance does make more hay as options at MIKE will be available.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
                              Well, now we are getting into what "position" of linebacker will the Broncos take? I'm in the camp of leaving DJ at MIKE, I think he's terrible at WILL.

                              Alot of the guys you listed are MIKEs, whether in a 4-3 or 3-4. Wheeler and Henderson are very likely ILBs in a 3-4 defense. Wheeler could play MIKE in the 4-3. I wouldn't put either at WILL. Wheeler could be gone when we pick anyhow. Butler is going to be an OLB in the 3-4 or possibly a MIKE in the 4-3, but that's doubtful. He's also a definite 3rd Round selection at best. Goff is a 4th Rounder at MIKE at best since he's undersized.


                              So, out of your linebackers, that leaves only Jerod Mayo as a potential player at WILL. The problem is that he played MIKE in college and probably projects as an ILB in the 3-4.


                              I think that if we go LB in Round 2, it would have to be Ali Highsmith or Xavier Adibi. I think one of those guys definitely goes to the Rams at the top of the Round whom need an OLB badly to start immediately. I think that's likely to be Highsmith. So, Adibi might be available. I'd rather keep Ian Gold.


                              Now, if the team wants to move DJ back to WILL (God help us), then your LB in the early 2nd stance does make more hay as options at MIKE will be available.
                              Your assessment of the LB in the draft is pretty dead on IMO. Lotta Mikes and very few quality OLB. Also add the fact Denver was courting Thomas tells me that Shanny wants to put DJ back at will and draft a mike.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
                                Goff is a 4th Rounder at MIKE at best since he's undersized.
                                What are you talking about?


                                GOFF is 6'4" and almost 240 pounds? If that's undersized...


                                Erin & Ezra both run as fast (if not faster) than Connor, Rivers, Highsmith & Adibi... AND... BOTH are/could be OLB...

                                ERIN HENDERSON IS NOT ILB at all... He's the perfect WILL.

                                As one site says: "At 6’3 and 236 lbs., he has the size to play either weak side or strong side linebacker spots. He plays in space very well and is a sure tackler. His instincts appear to be fantastic, as he can diagnose plays fairly quickly, probably due to his time at quarterback. He sees the field very well, and has great change of direction and hands for dropping into coverage. "


                                AND... I repeat... If Curtis Lofton is there... We draft him. Simple as that. He played both inside and outside.

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