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Would Bronco fans be pissed if our first pick went to the offensive line?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by BroncosTX77 View Post
    Please enlighten us as to how you have come to this conclusion?

    That's a good question I surprised myself with how certain I sounded.

    However, it's really not all that far-fetched for Clady to beat out Pears. Clady is simply more talented and Pears' biggest advantage, that of knowing the ZBS is somewhat diminished since Clady played in a ZBS at Boise St (Pears still has the advantage there though). Pears' performance in his first two seasons wasn't very inspiring, IMO. Daniel Graham's lack of catches was largely a result of having to baby-sit Pears, while in his first season at LT he could rely on Plummer's ability to scramble out of trouble. (IMO, Plummer really covered up the decline in the pass-protection ability of our line).

    I think Clady's familiarity with the ZBS, coupled with his enormous talent should help him win at least one of the tackle spots. Moreover, he's smart and committed to being successful (I read somewhere that he's the only first-round lineman who is going to be participating in all the drills at the Combine). Lastly, if we get Clady, he is going to be the eventual starter. Shanahan is going to be keen on getting him valuable experience and so Pears will have to outperform Clady by quite a margin in training camp to hold onto his spot.

    Of course, there are no certainties, and Pears could go on to become a perennial Pro-Bowler at LT, which would be simply terrific for him and us. In that scenario, we just need one out of Harris and Clady to pan out to have our bookends for the future. And if both pan out, we are looking at some serious trade value with whomever we decided to let go.
    Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by AC1 View Post
      By that token, we have starters at DT/LB/RB too. However, we want to pick DT/OT/LB because our starters aren't very good. There's probably a very good chance that a guy like Clady (or Williams) will beat out both Pears and Harris for the LT spot in his first season itself. In fact, I'm almost positive he beats out Pears for one of OT spots.
      What I'm saying is I don't think OT needs fixed, but DT/LB do. RB doesn't exactly need fixed in my opinion, we just don't don't have the right answer for it and I think Mendenhall/Stewart might be it.
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      • #48
        Only if it's Ryan Clady or Jake Long will I be happy with it!

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        • #49
          Originally posted by BroncoKazuki View Post
          We had the best line Pre-Dennison, we had a great O-line coach who taught up low rounder OT/OG's into a O-line that made the Broncos feared by most. The O-line was stellar but now it has degenerated into something that is a shadow of its former self, with a good O-line coach imagine what Pears, Kuper, Harris could do with better coaching. all this O-line in the 1st talk would be non-sense, as we would be more so focused on finding Hamilton's and Nalen's Successors.
          Pre-Dennison, our OL coach was Gibbs (for some 13 years), who is considered one of the best O-line coaches in history. Comparing Dennison to him and saying that he sucks is a bit like saying Cutler sucks because he isn't Elway. Until this past year, our O-line was still among the league's elite and we don't have any high draft choices on that line. That, to me, is a credit to Dennison.

          His O-line coaching is also part of the problem when it comes to our short yardage scoring in the red zone.
          If I'm not mistaken, that's always been a problem with Denver ZBS offenses, even in the days of Gibbs. Also, D-linemen have gotten bigger and stronger in recent times and our lack of power in the OL has been exposed even more.

          Ever heard of the term "my way or the high way" it wont matter if we get a first round LT the problem is the coach. if the LT says something out of line imagine what the coach would do. I'll put it this way benching would happen or things to keep the LT out of the game. I mean wasnt Foster a 1st round 20th pick for us and did he have pretty good hope and tools that he would be a star in our system. If he Had better coaching like I said Foster would have been way better and still in the system. Thus we wouldn't have gone after Harris last year.
          Foster did not exactly wow the Lions with his play there on a line that employs a much simpler blocking scheme than ours.


          Yet werent those players slated in the high 20's to late teens Maroney and Addai had 15-20 on their heads maybe early, MJD same thing went with him.
          We aslo tried to get Lynch last year for RB, we also tried hard to get back in the 2006 draft to grab Maroney as well. This year maybe one will fall into the 20's but right now the need for RB for many teams other then us will keep these great backs in the top 15. Then next year the crop isnt as good as this year. We could get lucky in 2010, but whats the chances that the RB we want will be in the range we can get them. Probably not high, if Rashard mendenhall does well in the league his brother will be looked at heavily, then other players that will emerge in 2008-2009 will be looked at heavily. So the thing is Strike now or Strike never.
          The point is not where the backs are expected to be taken, but where they are taken. That's because where they are chosen influences how much they are paid. While it would be great to get a back in the top-half of the first, it's far more optimal to get our back in the 20s where we usually draft because on the one hand you get a franchise back and on the other you're not paying as much money as to a top-15 pick.

          Ok Im not advocating Stewart or Mendenhall over one or another, its just the fact that, our RB situation is just like the rest of the team, in the toilet.
          Henry- flat out cant be healthy for a full year,
          Young- same as henry but without the off the field issues.
          Hall- never really showed anything to be a contender and has some durability issues.

          So were going into the 2008 season with a Medicore starter and two backups. Henry himself is 'old' by RB standards and still isnt worth the money were paying him. Young and Hall dont have the power at all, and really just irks me when people say "were fine in the run game" the run game hasnt been fine since Davis retired and Portis left. Every back we've had has never really stayed long with the team because they don't have that 'it' factor for us. The thing is one of the three backs Stewart/Mendenhall/Jones may have that it factor. Mendenhall looks as the top candidate as his O-line was crap and still burned many of the good run defenses, Imagine what he could do with our semi-decent line thats pretty scary. Stewart brings a Portis type back that can bring the Offense to the same level it was when he was here. Now we got a better QB its really gonna hurt. Jones may have it but he may also not, he shared carries with McFadden and was used situationally still overall he would be a very strong pick if we fail to get Stewart or Mendenhall.
          I think a large part of us letting the RBs that we had go, was the fact that we believed we could find better ones for much less. It was usually a case of a back having success, and rather than pay him more money, we would find a cheaper back and get similar production out of him. Another major factor was that all those backs were valued more by other teams than by us. Portis for Bailey and Bell for Bly (even with Foster thrown in) are ridiculously stupid deals that teams entered into because they over-valued our backs. When you can pick up cheap backs and not only get production out of them, but use them as currency for better players at positions of weakness, why wouldn't you?

          Im not downplaying the ills of the other positions but the bottom line is, this draft isnt that great for Starter DT's and Safeties when next years draft has more of a 'defensive' draft feel as majority of the Juniors RB which would be seniors next year are declaring now.

          Theres some great DT's Safeties and ILB's in the next years draft which we can get a better steal as we already fixed minor needs BAP wise, and filled in depth and growth spots for next year. if we pick in the 20's next year I want it to be a stud ILB or DT not a RB.
          There's some very good points there about the value in the first round. If we don't pick an OT, I hope we go RB rather than LB. Balmer makes me nervous as he hasn't had a consistently productive college career. I'm a little leery of Phillips as well and I also don't think we can afford to have a first-round saftety, keep our elite corners and still have cap space left to address our D-Line.

          I'd say unless Ellis or Dorsey fall to us or Merling is a guy that can put on 15-20 pounds and be a full-time DT (and be good), I don't see the value on defense at 12.
          Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Bowie Man View Post
            What I'm saying is I don't think OT needs fixed, but DT/LB do. RB doesn't exactly need fixed in my opinion, we just don't don't have the right answer for it and I think Mendenhall/Stewart might be it.
            That makes sense. I guess we just disagree over what positions need fixing

            I think all four positions could use upgrades, but I believe that OT and DT are bigger needs than RB and LB. Also improving OT and DT would improve our RB and LB situation respectively (though not to the point where they don't need upgrades, but we will be a better team while we look for those upgrades).
            Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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            • #51
              AC the thing is, Dennison is a ex-Linebacker made O-line coach.

              What can he bring into teaching these kids.

              Dont get me wrong but the Cutler/Elway comparison has to stop, players are players. But the Coaching effects the player.

              The thing is Shanny was a QB coach made HC, so he's good with QB's, he's shown it somewhat Post Elway with the meager QB's we've gotten. Cutler just so happens to be right in that league that we needed in a QB.


              Gibbs by far was our best O-line coach and it was hard to stomach letting him go but he headed for better pastures, same thing can be said with us not keeping Kubes or Hemdinger but they got offered better jobs.

              Dennison has not brought anything new to help these kids, if we had Gibbs us calling for a LT we wouldnt be talking about that now. Then again I guess I see it differently then you do AC.
              McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

              Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

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              • #52
                I would not complain if we got Williams, I would be estatic if we got Otah and dissapointed if we landed Clady...I think Williams and Otah will be better tackles overall and long-term in the NFL. But of all the tackles in the draft I like Otah second only to Long...

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by lancane View Post
                  I would not complain if we got Williams, I would be estatic if we got Otah and dissapointed if we landed Clady...I think Williams and Otah will be better tackles overall and long-term in the NFL. But of all the tackles in the draft I like Otah second only to Long...
                  Getting someone with a nasty swagger for the O-line would be great and Otha plays aggressive I wouldn't mind we pick him up.
                  McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

                  Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

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                  • #54
                    What makes Jeff Otah any different than George Foster coming out of college?

                    Just curious, he seems like the biggest of them and the most likely to have trouble dealing with speed rushers at the next level, as opposed to more athletic looking tackles like Williams, Clady and Long.

                    Just interested in learning what makes him different?
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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Lorcust View Post
                      What makes Jeff Otah any different than George Foster coming out of college?

                      Just curious, he seems like the biggest of them and the most likely to have trouble dealing with speed rushers at the next level, as opposed to more athletic looking tackles like Williams, Clady and Long.

                      Just interested in learning what makes him different?
                      Actually for his size his is quite agile and very quick footed, I do not see him hindering like big men of the past in the zone scheme, the other thing is that Clady and Williams lack a killer instinct and while that is not a bad thing, aggressiveness in a tackle is a huge plus and that is something Otah and Long have in common. Plus of all the tackles in the draft Otah is well balanced in both run and pass blocking, but he has been rated overall better as a pass blocker. And he was the unsung leader of his line, Williams and Clady are said to be good athletes, but no one has said they have that leadership ability and Otah has been recognized for it by Pittsburgh coaches...he would be a top ten pick if not for how raw he is, but suprisingly Clady is raw but he comes from a better rated program right now and I think that has a lot to do with why he is even ahead of Williams and Otah.

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