Fixing The Broncos, Part's I-IV

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

It's not over in Arizona.

This will boil over again, especially since Boldin is leading the Cardinals in the primary receiving numbers, and has done it in less games than Larry Fitzgerald. He has two years left on a deal that is paying him considerably less than Fitz.

I personally believe Anquan Boldin is the best WR in the NFL right now, period.

The one thing that would keep Boldin from being a Denver Bronco, though, is his agent.

Shanahan does not do business with Drew Rosenhaus.

Ask Clinton Portis and Chris Myers.

It seems to go against the Broncos revised business policy.


They are now close to the bottom of the league in payroll. I don't know if that means they plan on staying there, but there has been an obvious change in philosophy. Shannahan has stated that they will build through the draft and avoid high priced trades or free agents. Resigning Marshall before his deal is up would seem to be more in line with this philosophy.

I suppose it's similar to the Colt's model, which IMO is a good one.

[Spice 1]

We have tried the some 3-4 sets this year, and with mostly mixed to poor results. The lone exception was the Tampa game, where they played it well at times.

Yes, going to the 3-4 gives Woodyard and Winborn legit starting positions, but would mean we would have to scrap everything and start over.

Part of the problem the Defense has had is Shanahan has insisted on position coaches for his last three Defensive coordinators, so if he were to scrap Slowik after one year (which personally I don't think Shanny has the nerve to do after all the heat he has taken recently about his DC's being his scapegoats), giving the job to a Mike Nolan to switch to a 3-4, but keeping the same D-Line and LB coaches undermines the change.

IF Shanahan were to scrap Slowik, and go to Mike Nolan and the 3-4, give the guy complete autonomy to run it with his coaches. That is the only chance it has of working.

....but be careful for what you wish for, and maybe you should go back and watch our first three Super Bowls with Elway before you think the 3-4 is the be-all, end-all....all of those Bronco defenses were 3-4's, and they got smoked badly against the Giants, Redskins and 49ers.

However, I still hope we stay with Slowik and the 4-3. I think the problem is the players and overall lack of talent, not Slowik. Slowik just needs to stick to what he does best, and he is a 4-3 guy.

I would just tell Bob to take out his old Dallas Cowboys notebooks, and implement that.

The Broncos don't need to be great on defense, just competent enough to get off the field on some third downs...add a devastating RB to what wee have now, and the Broncos will score 30+ a game.

What they need is great offensive balance, and some semblance of a defense, not the '85 Bears or 2000 Ravens.

Good post. Maybe Bob should break out the Big D notebook, because stability might be the answer. Ever since Coyer's disaster of a second half, they haven't had that.

[elevation INC]

In a weird way, the injury has helped Boldin and the Cardinals. His show of toughness clearly has lifted this team. It has raised the bar of commitment for everyone. Quarterback Kurt Warner said he's never seen a teammate command so much respect in the locker room.

Meanwhile, it has silenced all the critics who deemed Boldin just another diva receiver whining about his contract.

Think about it. To this day, Boldin firmly believes the Cardinals lied to him about a contract extension, and if he wanted revenge he easily could have sat out for months, maybe even the rest of the season, and no one would've said a word. Not after that hit.

Instead, his loyalty to the team and his love for the game has re-established Boldin has one of the more passionate, selfless performers in football. He says this team has "no ceiling" but he remains coy about his feelings toward the organization and whether it'll get ugly again when the season is over.

"Honestly, my head isn't even on that contract stuff right now," said Boldin, who has two years left on his contract at $2.75 million and $3 million. "I mean, if I was approached by the team, I'd tell them the same thing I'm telling everyone else: I'll deal with it in the off-season."




this was an article i found it isnt to telling but it does let you know that he isnt the same guy complaining about a contract he was at the start of the season. I think he is just fine in arizona he has an influxed role, he is the go 2 guy and he is enjoying himself. he may have some underlying issues but the bottom line is he has 2 years and his boss wont let him go......ask chad johnson how well a trade demand works........the redskins offered the world for chad and he wasnt traded.....


I also couldnt fin the article but after the giants game the GM was quoted about anquan saying this....."He will stay in arizona and he will be a cardinal next year no matter what"


in any case there both dominating recivers the difference is boldin is a little more mature. Marshall has only been a starter for 2 years though the focus and mental lapses is actually pretty normal, it will pass.......

[MindField]

At the end of the day, I take Taylor Mays or William Moore with the first round pick, and solve the D-Line like this for 2009:

LDT: (Starter) Marcus Thomas. Backups: Dewayne Robertson and Carlton Powell.

RDT (Starter) Re-sign Kenny Peterson to a three yr ext. and plug him in as a starter. Backups: Nic Clemons and Josh Shaw...you could also draft a mid-round guy like Colorado's George Hypolite to compete here.

LDE: (Starter) Ebenezer Ekuban...bite the bullet and ext. him for two years. Give backup Tim Crowder another year before labelling him a bust.

RDE: (Starter) Jarvis Moss. He has been playing the run much better lately, and his body will be three years removed from college now, and near physical maturity; he should be a solid 255 plus...I see the light going on for him much the same as it did for Reggie Hayward, in year three. Backup: Elvis Dumervil. Sign Doom to a 6 yr contract ext., but as a rotational third DE that can play both sides. John Engleberger makes a decent 5th DE and special teams guy.

Not the second coming of the 'Fearsome Foursome', but I think you can win with them.

[Botan]

At the end of the day, I take Taylor Mays or William Moore with the first round pick, and solve the D-Line like this for 2009:

LDT: (Starter) Marcus Thomas. Backups: Dewayne Robertson and Carlton Powell.

RDT (Starter) Re-sign Kenny Peterson to a three yr ext. and plug him in as a starter. Backups: Nic Clemons and Josh Shaw...you could also draft a mid-round guy like Colorado's George Hypolite to compete here.

LDE: (Starter) Ebenezer Ekuban...bite the bullet and ext. him for two years. Give backup Tim Crowder another year before labelling him a bust.

RDE: (Starter) Jarvis Moss. He has been playing the run much better lately, and his body will be three years removed from college now, and near physical maturity; he should be a solid 255 plus...I see the light going on for him much the same as it did for Reggie Hayward, in year three. Backup: Elvis Dumervil. Sign Doom to a 6 yr contract ext., but as a rotational third DE that can play both sides. John Engleberger makes a decent 5th DE and special teams guy.

Not the second coming of the 'Fearsome Foursome', but I think you can win with them.

I don't exactly disagree with much that you have here, but only 1 more additional d-linemen in the off season? I'd like to get 2 guys to compete for DT and 2 guys to compete with Ekuban and Engleberger somewhere in the draft or free agency.

I'm not going to call Crowder a bust quite yet, but that situation doesn't seem very bright at the moment.

[MindField]

I don't exactly disagree with much that you have here, but only 1 more additional d-linemen in the off season? I'd like to get 2 guys to compete for DT and 2 guys to compete with Ekuban and Engleberger somewhere in the draft or free agency.

I'm not going to call Crowder a bust quite yet, but that situation doesn't seem very bright at the moment.

Well, obviously, the Broncos could use more than a couple of bodies on the D-Line, but they probably need two new starting LB's with Boss Bailey's injury question, and if DJ stays on the weakside, they still need a MIKE as well.

They need two new sarting safeties.....they need a RB...

So they have alot of needs, and they need to try and 'get by' somewhere,
unless the dive deeper into free agency than I expect.

I just think they have more answers for next yr on the D-Line. To me, you start Jarvis Moss at RDE from Day One of mini-camps, and re-sign Ekuban with the idea of playing Crowder extensively to see if he can develop. If Crowder fails, he can ease Ekuban into retirement; if Crowder fails, you can re-address the LDE position in the 2010 offseason, and cut your ties with him....but at some point, you have to find out what he's got. The challenge to Crowder is to beat out what will be a 12 yr vet in Ebenezer Ekuban.

To me, Marcus Thomas is about to take a quantam leap in his play...just as it did for other DT's like Haynesworth...yr three is the year to see Thomas take a major step up....and I think Kenny Peterson is extremely under-rated, and deserves to start. That makes Robertson a backup, which is what he shouldbe. Carlton Powell and Nic Clemons give you two more young bodies. If you can get a strong set of safeties, and a good Mike behind them, I think you would be more than OK on defense.

[Botan]

Well, obviously, the Broncos could use more than a couple of bodies on the D-Line, but they probably need two new starting LB's with Boss Bailey's injury question, and if DJ stays on the weakside, they still need a MIKE as well.

This is where I disagree. So let me tell you what I think.

OLB - From what I've heard or seen I get the strong feeling that Shanahan and crew are completely satisfied with their OLBs at the moment. My guess would be that they are going to let Winborn, Woodyard and Bailey duke it out next year at TC. Maybe a late round pick here at best is what I see them going with. I'd love to have the Aaron Curry kid, or an upgrade at a OLB position but it really isn't high on our list of needs compared to other portions of defense.

MLB - It remains to be seen on how we really feel right here. I highly doubt we move DJ back to the middle and finally let him settle in a position unless he's absolutely fine with it (which I doubt). Larsen is playing well but I'm fairly sure he won't be somebody that we want out there on big time passing downs. If we draft a MLB I think it'll end up either being a late rounder or one of the big 3 that should go in the first. (spikes, Laurinitis, Rey Rey). I'm not sure this team will draft one in the 2nd or 3rd.

S- This is where I think we make a big splash next year, either in the draft, FA or both. You can completely tell that Shanahan and crew are completely disgusted with what they are working with here. Promoting Rodgers from PS and making him a starter?(who then proceeds to get cut) That just tells me they're grasping at anything. I think McCree is a good vet to have, but nothing we should have out there as starting material. I feel we go to the well for a safety at least once in the first 3 rounds if not twice.

D Line - I agree with what you said about Crowder. I'm okay with giving him another year to compete, but we NEED to add at least 1 or 2 players at DE. As far as DT goes I'm a little less worried but we still don't have much depth behind Thomas, Peterson and Robertson. Clemons is average at best and I doubt he will ever develop into anything special. Also Powell is completely unproven, coming off an inury and was a late round pick. This is somebody we can't exactly rely on. I say we pick up 1 or 2 DT's early or late in the draft or in FA.


RB - This is where I really have no idea what we are thinking. You have Torain who looks to be servicable if he's healthy and a FO that is so confident in their ability to get production out of any RB that its hard to believe they'll spend another high round pick on a RB when we have so many other needs.

On top of this, what are our plans as far as our running scheme goes? Are we going to turn into more of a power running team where a Brandon Jacobs (if available) would be nice? Are we going to keep our ZBS or just what? I really don't know. I think we pick up a RB SOMEWHERE next off season, I just can't figure this one out at all.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. :2cents:

[MindField]

This is where I disagree. So let me tell you what I think.

OLB - From what I've heard or seen I get the strong feeling that Shanahan and crew are completely satisfied with their OLBs at the moment. My guess would be that they are going to let Winborn, Woodyard and Bailey duke it out next year at TC. Maybe a late round pick here at best is what I see them going with. I'd love to have the Aaron Curry kid, or an upgrade at a OLB position but it really isn't high on our list of needs compared to other portions of defense.

MLB - It remains to be seen on how we really feel right here. I highly doubt we move DJ back to the middle and finally let him settle in a position unless he's absolutely fine with it (which I doubt). Larsen is playing well but I'm fairly sure he won't be somebody that we want out there on big time passing downs. If we draft a MLB I think it'll end up either being a late rounder or one of the big 3 that should go in the first. (spikes, Laurinitis, Rey Rey). I'm not sure this team will draft one in the 2nd or 3rd.

S- This is where I think we make a big splash next year, either in the draft, FA or both. You can completely tell that Shanahan and crew are completely disgusted with what they are working with here. Promoting Rodgers from PS and making him a starter?(who then proceeds to get cut) That just tells me they're grasping at anything. I think McCree is a good vet to have, but nothing we should have out there as starting material. I feel we go to the well for a safety at least once in the first 3 rounds if not twice.

D Line - I agree with what you said about Crowder. I'm okay with giving him another year to compete, but we NEED to add at least 1 or 2 players at DE. As far as DT goes I'm a little less worried but we still don't have much depth behind Thomas, Peterson and Robertson. Clemons is average at best and I doubt he will ever develop into anything special. Also Powell is completely unproven and was a late round pick somebody we can't exactly rely on. I say we pick up 1 or 2 DT's early or late in the draft or in FA.


RB - This is where I really have no idea what we are thinking. You have Torain who looks to be servicable if he's healthy and a FO that is so confident in their ability to get production out of any RB that its hard to believe they'll spend another high round pick on a RB when we have so many other needs.

On top of this, what are our plans as far as our running scheme goes? Are we going to turn into more of a power running team where a Brandon Jacobs (if available) would be nice? Are we going to keep our ZBS or just what? I really don't know. I think we pick up a RB SOMEWHERE next off season, I just can't figure this one out at all.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. :2cents:

I agree that Safety is the primary area of concern by the Broncos coaches...it has to be. McCree is on a one year deal, and Marquand Manuel has been a disappointment. Right now, they are trying anything and everything, so you have to assume the Broncos will draft a S in the first round. I just think it will be Mays or Moore; whichever on is available in the #15 area.
If they go in a different direction, I say they go MLB with Spikes or Laurinaitis likely to be available.

The only RB they would consider in the 1st, IMO, would be Knowshon Moreno.

I think Curry is a Top 12 pick, so he is unlikely.

Our Safties are brutal, though, so I have to think it will be a Safety.

Taylor Mays, USC 6'3"-228

Or

William Moore, Missouri 6'1"-225

Either one would look good wearing #29.

I also don't discount the idea of the Broncos pursuing Jonathan Vilma in free agency to play MLB next to DJ Williams again. The pair were devastating together at the U. Vilma would not break the bank, and would likely sign a three or four year deal.

[broncos SB2010]

Well, obviously, the Broncos could use more than a couple of bodies on the D-Line, but they probably need two new starting LB's with Boss Bailey's injury question, and if DJ stays on the weakside, they still need a MIKE as well.

They need two new sarting safeties.....they need a RB...

So they have alot of needs, and they need to try and 'get by' somewhere,
unless the dive deeper into free agency than I expect.

I just think they have more answers for next yr on the D-Line. To me, you start Jarvis Moss at RDE from Day One of mini-camps, and re-sign Ekuban with the idea of playing Crowder extensively to see if he can develop. If Crowder fails, he can ease Ekuban into retirement; if Crowder fails, you can re-address the LDE position in the 2010 offseason, and cut your ties with him....but at some point, you have to find out what he's got. The challenge to Crowder is to beat out what will be a 12 yr vet in Ebenezer Ekuban.

To me, Marcus Thomas is about to take a quantam leap in his play...just as it did for other DT's like Haynesworth...yr three is the year to see Thomas take a major step up....and I think Kenny Peterson is extremely under-rated, and deserves to start. That makes Robertson a backup, which is what he shouldbe. Carlton Powell and[B] Nic Clemons give you two more young bodies.[/B] If you can get a strong set of safeties, and a good Mike behind them, I think you would be more than OK on defense.

Nic Clemons who will be 29 next year and spent 2 years out of football is what you are counting on?? Peterson is under rated which I agree with but he will be 30 next year. Here is my assessment of the Dline

Engleberger--33 years old, can't rush the passer is getting beat on the run and declining

Ekuban--our best DE but also 33 years old.

Moss-undersized but showing improvement

Crowder-good size but not playing

Dumervil--decent pass rusher but can't play the run

Peterson--quick off the snap, an excellent backup

Thomas--showing continual growth

Robertson- showing he can take up blocks but makes no plays

Clemons--a body taking up space, a last resort player

Powell--a rookie who is unproven

That is what you are planning for next year as our Dline?? We don't have a decent all around end and the only solid DT we have is Thomas. If it takes 3 years for them to shine, we need to draft at least 1 Dlineman in the first 2 rounds so he can develop with the couple of young guys we have. Ekuban, engelberger, clemons, will all be gone soon if not next year. Unless we draft a stud we will be counting on untested young guys like Powell and Crowder to upgrade a Dline that can't stop the run or rush the passer.

[colinski]

DL picks

Part III, Lines of scrimmage


Defensive Line:

DT
The big question here in my mind is what to do with Dewayne Robertson and Kenny Peterson?
Peterson has been the best penetrating pass rush DT we have had over the last two years, and reminds me of the solid job Michael Myers did for the Broncos when he was here. The bottom line is, I think you can win with Kenny Peterson, and I would make him a stater. I give him a three year extension, and pair him with Marcus Thomas. I don't know what you get from keeping Dewayne Robertson. He is a two-down DT that can't run anymore. Personally, whatever he supposedly adds to the D-Line is lost on me. Why the Broncos aren't taking an extended look at Nic Clemons is beyond me.
Josh Shaw has been playing recently, and may get a one yr deal to return for a look in camp. Former
5th round draft pick Carlton Powell may be another good, young player that Jim Goodman has identified.

Marcus Thomas continues to improve, and 2009 could be his breakout year.

Solution: With the 15th pick in the first round of the NFL Draft, I think the Broncos have to give extended consideration to Mississippi DT Peria (pronounced per-eye-ah) Jerry (is there a more perfect name for a DT??), especially if Kenny Peterson is not re-signed. Jerry can play either DT spot, and would be great in a rotation with Thomas and Peterson and give the Broncos some quality depth, especially if Powell is a player. In any case, I expect the Broncos to add more player to the equasion.

DE's
LDE-To me, the most pressing issue is LDE. The Broncos have tried to get by in the past two years with John Engleberger, but at 6'4" and maybe 255lbs, the Broncos just give up too much on a physical level to Offensive football teams. So Ebenezer Ekuban has been starting there recently, and while he has been playing fairly well, would be in his 12th year next year, so the most I would offer him is a one year deal.
This was supposed to be Tim Crowder's job by now, but he can't even get himself to be activated,
so it is unlikely you can count on him to do anything, but this position is hard to come by. There just aren't alot of strong-side types in the draft, other than LSU DE Tyson Jackson (6'4"-291). Fifteen would likely be too high to select Jackson, but he could be the target if they traded down and added picks. Dallas DE Chris Canty would be an expensive free agent, but a mid-round prospect like USC DE Kyle Moore (6'6"-284) may be a solution.

RDE- The Broncos have started to use Engleberger here more as a substitute for Elvis Dumervil on
run downs, and Jarvis Moss is developing and is not going to be a complete bust. Once again the problem is their physical size; they are simply too small. Dumervil is a great third DE as a pass-rush specialist, but he should not be starting. Moss is also better suited as a backup pass rush type. If Dumervil and Moss could prove to be an effective combination as pass rush DE's, they could be special.
The problem is, both are better as backups, so if you extend Dumervil (and he is coming up on a new contract), maybe you could trade Moss. In any case, and new starting RDE is needed here.


That makes TWO new starting DE's, unless you want to go with Ekuban for another year at LDE, and spend another season to see if the light goes on for Tim Crowder.

After pondering the 'shape' of the upcoming draft, I began to puzzle over a strategy that could take advantage of our needs as well as one of this draft class's strengths -- at DE.

Most of my thinking regarding the DL has focused on DT, partly because it's a need but also because the DE crop is long on smallish, pass rushing types and short on running stopping LDEs.

There's more to the dilemma than a surplus of what we don't need and a shortage of what we do, since we really haven't haven't reached the point where we'd like to be at RDE either. I like Dumervil, as most of you probably do, and I haven't given up on Moss, but I can't see our present situation as anything close to a long-term answer. Change may be needed.

MindField has captured the essence of the problem. As a formal problem it looks like a series of overlapping contingencies, or, to put it another way, it's like building a house on top of another house. Do you just tear the old house down and start from scratch? It may sound appealing but someone is going to be manning our defense during the meantime, so it's more like attempting to rebuild some parts while you tear others down. And the real problem is deciding which parts, since we don't know if certain sections should be built up or torn down. Moreover, we don't even know if know if the pass rushing specialists in this draft will be any better than what we already have.

I wish I had an answer but I'm at an impasse. Fixing LB and S will certainly help and could be done without changes elsewhere on the the defense, but there's a decision looming at DE. We can add at DT, too, but it starts to raise the question of what type of DE we'll be using in the future. Should we go for the more athletic but often smaller DT who can penetrate and provide some pass rush or find an immovable object who can stop the rush?

I think we do both, and it's partly because that's what the DT crop offers, but it's also because the DT position has evolved in that direction. However, the question of how we should look at DE is still unresolved. I'll be happy (for now) if we pick up a slightly bigger DE who can pass rush AND do a reasonably good job on the run, but there's fewer of those and it's hard to find help if you don't spend the picks. And before we spend any picks we should consider whether we want to go another way at DE, which could mean that many of the picks at DE in recent years won't be part of our long-term plans.

[broncos SB2010]

After pondering the 'shape' of the upcoming draft, I began to puzzle over a strategy that could take advantage of our needs as well as one of this draft class's strengths -- at DE.

Most of my thinking regarding the DL has focused on DT, partly because it's a need but also because the DE crop is long on smallish, pass rushing types and short on running stopping LDEs.

There's more to the dilemma than a surplus of what we don't need and a shortage of what we do, since we really haven't haven't reached the point where we'd like to be at RDE either. I like Dumervil, as most of you probably do, and I haven't given up on Moss, but I can't see our present situation as anything close to a long-term answer. Change may be needed.

MindField has captured the essence of the problem. As a formal problem it looks like a series of overlapping contingencies, or, to put it another way, it's like building a house on top of another house. Do you just tear the old house down and start from scratch? It may sound appealing but someone is going to be manning our defense during the meantime, so it's more like attempting to rebuild some parts while you tear others down. And the real problem is deciding which parts, since we don't know if certain sections should be built up or torn down. Moreover, we don't even know if know if the pass rushing specialists in this draft will be any better than what we already have.

I wish I had an answer but I'm at an impasse. Fixing LB and S will certainly help and could be done without changes elsewhere on the the defense, but there's a decision looming at DE. We can add at DT, too, but it starts to raise the question of what type of DE we'll be using in the future. Should we go for the more athletic but often smaller DT who can penetrate and provide some pass rush or find an immovable object who can stop the rush?

I think we do both, and it's partly because that's what the DT crop offers, but it's also because the DT position has evolved in that direction. However, the question of how we should look at DE is still unresolved. I'll be happy (for now) if we pick up a slightly bigger DE who can pass rush AND do a reasonably good job on the run, but there's fewer of those and it's hard to find help if you don't spend the picks. And before we spend any picks we should consider whether we want to go another way at DE, which could mean that many of the picks at DE in recent years won't be part of our long-term plans.

I am of the belief that we need bigger DE's, at least one who can dominate the line of scrimmage. Ekuban is our best DE and he is 275...we need biger DE!. The best one coming out in the draft imo is Tyson jackson and I think we should pick him at the bottom of the 1st or top of the second. He will dominate the line. Other potentials include Brandon Graham if he comes out, 6'3", 270 will prob be a 2nd rounder. If not them then Derek Walker or Pannel Egboh in the 4th round might be ok. None of the other DE's have the bulk we need on the line.