I was on the fence, but now I am for the 3-4

[Cutler2007]

As unpopular as this is going to be with some on this board, I think now is the time to convert to the 3-4. Do we have one player on the defensive front 7 that is a standout at their position? Maybe DJ, but he looks like he could easily play the ILB spot on a 3-4 and honestly, that may be his best position.

Looking at the draft, it is built for drafting for a 3-4.

OLB

Brian Orakpo
George Selvie
Everette Brown
Clint Sintim
Connor Barwin
Matt Shaughnessy
Larry English

ILB

Rey Maualuga
Scott McKillop
Worrell Williams
Daniel Holtzclaw
Jasper Brinkley


DE

Sen'Derrick Marks
Fili Moala
Evander Hood
Vance Walker
Alex Magee
Darryl Richard
Clinton McDonald

DT

Terrence Cody
B.J. Raji
Vince Oghobaase
Dorell Scott
Ron Brace

I would do the following:

Hire Romeo Crennell if he is fired, or Eric Mangini. We need a DC that knows what they want to do and Shanny needs to release control to that guy. Both of these guys are proven.

Free agency:

Bart Scott ILB - team him up with DJ on the inside. A guy that knows what it takes to have a successful 3-4.

Sean Jones - My top FS in FA also has played in a 3-4.

Chris Canty - a 3-4 DE that can start while we develop a guy opposite Marcus Thomas.

Draft:

#12 Trade down - I would target a 18-22nd spot and try to pick up a 2nd round pick.

Get two of Clint Sintim, George Selvie, Larry English, Everette Brown

Get one of Vince Oghobaase Ron Brace

Get one of Fili Moala, Evander Hood, Vance Walker, Alex Magee, Darryl Richard, Clinton McDonald

Get one of Jonathan Luigs, Antoine Caldwell (need a top center)

That would be 5 picks in the first 4 rounds and would leave our depth chart looking like this for example

RDE Canty, Hood,
NT Robinson, Oghobaase, Powell
LDE Thomas, Peterson
OLB Sintim, English, Moss
ILB Williams, Scott, Larsen
CB Bailey, Bly, JMFW
S Jones Barrett

That would leave Winborn, Crowder, and Woodyard to trade away for whatever we can get.

I do think that we should use some late draft picks to get a couple guys on offense such as a FB (I like Hillis as a power RB and when he went down we really suffered) a TE, and a WR to learn behind Stokley.

I like David Johnson at FB, Marquez Branson as a FB/TE, and Sammie Stroughter as a slot WR (he is very talented and can return kicks).

[neutessa]

I agree with you on two points.

1. You will probably catch some flack for suggesting the Broncos convert to a 3-4.

2. The Broncos should, at the very least, evaluate a switch at this point. They need to look at their current roster, the free agent market, and the draft and determine the best course of action. You are right ... the front 7 needs a total overhaul whether a 3-4 or 4-3 so it really doesn't matter at this point. The theory that the current players are more suited for the 4-3, in my opinion, is irrelevant given the need to overhaul 5, 6, or 7 of the starters to be a great defense anyway.

BTW - to add a name to the mix, I think Spencer Larsen would be a very nice 3-4 ILB. In the Broncos' 4-3, he is likely too slow to ever become the permanent solution at MLB, but in the 3-4 his lack of speed could be absorbed ala the Steeler's Larry Foote who has virtually the same measurables as Larsen.

[Botan]

To all the Haters of a 3-4:

We gave up 52 points in the last game, so we pretty much don't even have a defense.

I'm fine with staying with a 4-3, but it really wouldn't be impossible to switch. Either way, we're going to have to go at least 2 more offseasons maybe 3 with good acquisitions to fix this abomination into something respectable.

Oh, and Vince Oghobasse already stated he will be returning for his senior season, so you can cross him off the list.

[elevation INC]

i would be fine for trying it, but it will be harder than you all think.

my biggest problem is slowik, he has no skills as a d cordinator and if he stays we have to stick to the 4-3, he has no idea how to properly run a base 4-3 having him try and run a complex 3-4 would kill us just like it did earlier this season.


if we can get crennel and bring him in I am all for it. personally i would bring crennel as the d cordinator and pay him as such just without the title. and keep slowik only in title if he must stay, but demote his pay

[Botan]

i would be fine for trying it, but it will be harder than you all think.

my biggest problem is slowik, he has no skills as a d cordinator and if he stays we have to stick to the 4-3, he has no idea how to properly run a base 4-3 having him try and run a complex 3-4 would kill us just like it did earlier this season.


if we can get crennel and bring him in I am all for it. personally i would bring crennel as the d cordinator and pay him as such just without the title. and keep slowik only in title if he must stay, but demote his pay

Oh, as long as Slowik is around, we're screwed. The guy just isn't meant to be anything but a position coach. If we got a 3-4 Coordinator, I think its worth a shot.

[housemouse]

I would be all for switching to a 3-4, if our offense sucked.
But it doesn't, we can't waste 2-3 years switching to a 3-4.
While our O is good

[Bronco1577]

3-4 No way!

There is no way Denver has the personel to switch to a 3-4. They tried see the Chiefs game. Denver needs really 2-3 players on defense. They need a safetey who can tackle. The Steelers have Palomaleu and we have ??? For all you Josh the Bullet Barrett fans watch the Panthers and SD games my god! I think he is project and if they can teach him not overun the play he might be good someday.

Also Denver needs a defensive tackle who can get off the ball, collapse the pocket, command a double team, and allow our pass rushers to get after the quaterback. We have no one and I mean no one who can do that. They can't even get off blocks and make tackle on running backs at the line of scrimage. They get stood up and pushed back into our linebackers on almost every play. I think the only one that may show promise is Marcus Thomas.

Then we need a middle linebacker. Sorry Spencer Larsen isn't the answer. At least not last year. We had tageted Willis and Meyo but we didn't get to draft them. They are damn good! If we can't get one in the draft move D.J. to the middle or trade him for one. He is the only backer we have that can shed blocks and deliever hits. Al Wilson I miss you!

Denver has to do something with this defense or we will not be close to 8-8 next year.

[broncos SB2010]

There is no way Denver has the personel to switch to a 3-4. They tried see the Chiefs game. Denver needs really 2-3 players on defense. They need a safetey who can tackle. The Steelers have Palomaleu and we have ??? For all you Josh the Bullet Barrett fans watch the Panthers and SD games my god! I think he is project and if they can teach him not overun the play he might be good someday.

Also Denver needs a defensive tackle who can get off the ball, collapse the pocket, command a double team, and allow our pass rushers to get after the quaterback. We have no one and I mean no one who can do that. They can't even get off blocks and make tackle on running backs at the line of scrimage. They get stood up and pushed back into our linebackers on almost every play. I think the only one that may show promise is Marcus Thomas.

Then we need a middle linebacker. Sorry Spencer Larsen isn't the answer. At least not last year. We had tageted Willis and Meyo but we didn't get to draft them. They are damn good! If we can't get one in the draft move D.J. to the middle or trade him for one. He is the only backer we have that can shed blocks and deliever hits. Al Wilson I miss you!

Denver has to do something with this defense or we will not be close to 8-8 next year.

The Broncos need much more than 2-3 players. IMO they need 2 DE, 1 DT, 1 MLB, 1 OLB, 2 safety. That is 7. 6 if you don't count barrett. 5 of those are on the front 7. 5 of 7 need help...it doesn't really mater if they switch to a 3-4 or not, they are a long way from being a good defense. I do think, which I have posted before, that some of the players that can't make the starting roster might be ideal fits for a 3-4 such as Moss who can't seem to start at DE might make an outstanding 3-4 OLB. Thomas and Powell who play decent as DT might be stars at 3-4 DE. If that is the case, and I have no idea if it is, than the broncos are actually much closer to a solid 3-4 than a 4-3. With those moves they would just need a NT and an OLB...only 2 positions. There would definitely be some growing pains as the players learned a new system but they could become dominate.


As far as using the losses this past year to say they can't do it you have to think that they only had a week or 2 to prepare that plus they ahd the wrong people in key positions to make that work such as Dumervil as 3-4 DE...way to small for that, and no true NT.

[neutessa]

There is no way Denver has the personel to switch to a 3-4. They tried see the Chiefs game. Denver needs really 2-3 players on defense. They need a safetey who can tackle. The Steelers have Palomaleu and we have ??? For all you Josh the Bullet Barrett fans watch the Panthers and SD games my god! I think he is project and if they can teach him not overun the play he might be good someday.

Also Denver needs a defensive tackle who can get off the ball, collapse the pocket, command a double team, and allow our pass rushers to get after the quaterback. We have no one and I mean no one who can do that. They can't even get off blocks and make tackle on running backs at the line of scrimage. They get stood up and pushed back into our linebackers on almost every play. I think the only one that may show promise is Marcus Thomas.

Then we need a middle linebacker. Sorry Spencer Larsen isn't the answer. At least not last year. We had tageted Willis and Meyo but we didn't get to draft them. They are damn good! If we can't get one in the draft move D.J. to the middle or trade him for one. He is the only backer we have that can shed blocks and deliever hits. Al Wilson I miss you!

Denver has to do something with this defense or we will not be close to 8-8 next year.

This would be a good start to fixing the 4-3 - but only a start. You state it yourself ... the Broncos have no one on the DLine that can rush the passer and/or beat 1-on-1 blocks. A single DT is not all that is needed. There are 5 offensive linemen - enough to double team a single DT and pick up each of the other 3 rushers. None of these rushers can win 1-on-1 so your pass rush is still virtually stuck in neutral (probably marginally better than this year).

Getting the defense to top 10 caliber is going to take a minimum of 2-3 DLine and at least 1 (maybe 2) LBs - and this assumes you get good results from some of the other players (e.g. Thomas) currently on your roster. So, the point is ... if you have to make that type of overhaul to be a good 4-3, what's the difference if you want to make it a 3-4 instead? If the available talent in the offseason (FA and Draft) is more 3-4 suited, go 3-4. If it is more 4-3 suited, go 4-3. Don't pigeon hole yourself just because of the talent (if that's what you can call it) on the roster today.

[neutessa]

The Broncos need much more than 2-3 players.

Same thoughts ... we must have been posting simultaneously! :salute!:

[JoRo]

At this point I think we keep Slow so I think 3-4= bad... but if we WERE to hire Mangini or Romeo... (Big if, won't happen but I'll go with the pipe dream)

Here is who we may be able to keep in that scheme

DJ- switch to ILB, would prolly be fine if we protect him decently with an ok NT

Larsen- I don't care who says he isn't good... if you watch the Atlanta game he was why our run D shut down Turner. He played well that game. He'd fit the 3-4 inside too, he has the strength and instincts and lack of pass coverage wouldn't be as big a problem there.

Outside- Jarvis would switch here and we'd give him a chance... Crowder may too but I think he'd basically be screwed at that point. The thing that kills me is I called it originally when we drafted Crowder after reading reports that he "looks like Tarzan plays like Jane" but forgot it when he played well his rookie year....

Others: Elvis may play there a year before we let him go if he didn't pan.. he wouldn't be able to play DE obviously and tryin him there would at least make keeping him for the year worth it. I don't think he has fluid enough hips though for coverage... so at best he'd be a pass rush specialist outta the linebacker spot.


DE- Basically all our DT's would go to these spots cept Dwayne, who'd end up a backup NT or starter if we couldn't find one..

[broncolee]

Whether it the 3-4 defense or the 4-3 defense, it just doesn't matter.

But, if they were to switch, they would have to completely overhaul their defensive roster. Other teams that run the 3-4 defense have up to 11 linebackers on their roster. Only two of those teams have more than 2 linebackers that are under 240 lbs. Then there's the issue of finding a true NT. They would almost undoubtedly be forced to use their 12th pick on Raji from Boston College, if they wanted to make a serious effort to switch to a 3-4 defense. I'm OK with that, but I really want them to take Beanie Wells or Knowshon Moreno in the first round.

The 3-4 defense isn't any better than the 4-3. If you have the right players, you can make either scheme work.

Since Shanahan likes the 4-3 and he has already stated that Slowik will be back as the DC, it's useless to even hope for a switch to the 3-4.

[broncos SB2010]

Whether it the 3-4 defense or the 4-3 defense, it just doesn't matter.

But, if they were to switch, they would have to completely overhaul their defensive roster. Other teams that run the 3-4 defense have up to 11 linebackers on their roster. Only two of those teams have more than 2 linebackers that are under 240 lbs. Then there's the issue of finding a true NT. They would almost undoubtedly be forced to use their 12th pick on Raji from Boston College, if they wanted to make a serious effort to switch to a 3-4 defense. I'm OK with that, but I really want them to take Beanie Wells or Knowshon Moreno in the first round.

The 3-4 defense isn't any better than the 4-3. If you have the right players, you make either scheme work.

Since Shanahan likes the 4-3 and he has already stated that Slowik will be back as the DC, it's useless to even hope for a switch to the 3-4.

There are a couple NT available in FA as well. Gabe Watson from AZ would be the best, there is also Colin Cole from GB and Kenderick Allen from Minnesota

[Cutler2007]

There is no way Denver has the personel to switch to a 3-4.

My only response is that we do not have the personnel to run a 4-3 as is obvious by how we performed this year.

With Shanny now gone, I think we will see by the which coach get hired which direction we will go.

[Butler By'Note]

From what I've seen I personally like the 4-3, especially when you actually have the d-line stunt and twist and you blitz every now and then and use some variety rather than just having 4 down linemen rush straight ahead every play. But I'm intrigued by the 3-4 (not our midseason attempt) but a good properly run 3-4.

My question is about the personnel, for DE's couldn't we just move Robertson and Thomas out there? Then you draft a big nose tackle like Cody or Raji and don't we all of a sudden have a set of starting 3-4 linemen? Then you factor moving Powell and Peterson (if he's resigned) or someone like Chris Canty and all of a sudden we're only a linemen or two away from being set?

I really don't know what the 3-4 linemen skillset requires, so I'm asking honestly why couldn't this work? What are the differences in skills required between the linemen and linebackers in a 3-4 vs a 4-3?