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I firmly believe S is the most important position on D.

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  • I firmly believe S is the most important position on D.

    They say defenses win championships. When I think of teams in the playoffs and championhip games, I think S. I think Atwater, Archuleta, Reed, Lynch, Polamalu, Milloy, Dawkins, Taylor and Wilson.

    While it takes a team, much like a franchise QB, I see a franchise S. Example I foresee Jacksonvile's D becoming ellite with the maturity of Nelson and Washington with the maturity of Landry. Would you draft your Franchise QB in the 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd or ok maybe 2nd but only if he has a few years to learn behind a farve or Montana.

    I wonder what the Steelers would be with out Polamalu. I have seen what they're like without this great LB or that one or this DE or that CB. I wonder what the Ravens would look like with out Reed. Take Atwater off the Broncos replace him with a seventh rounder like Barret (lets hope he becomes great, not likely) would we of been as good as we where.

    Now im sure a blind squirel finds a nut once in a while but a franchise S is not so easy.
    I hate the Defenseless Receiver rule and the fines. Posted since '07. 2011 rule addition :nono: backhand a fool!

  • #2
    These safeties are very good BUT they will not be as good if they lacked the quality surrounding cast on the defense that they currently have. See Bailey this last couple years, very good with good/ok supporting cast and good with bad supporting cast. I know the positions are different but the result is similar.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by marcus_miller View Post
      Would you draft your Franchise QB in the 7th, 6th...
      The patriots did it by accident.

      Its a toss up, you need a good line to make your secondary excel. So I would actually prefer a garbage Saftey with an all star Dline.

      Once all the pieces of the puzzle are together or for the most part, a safety is a good choice. :salute!:

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      • #4
        S is the most important position if you already have a good defense. A good safety will make a good defense great. See Reed and Polomaulo.

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        • #5
          Well...you'll never hear me say safeties AREN'T important, I think they are far more important than a lot of people think...but they're far from the most important position on defense...

          if your lineman are getting run over all day your safeties will be pretty useless.
          sigpic

          And THAT'S, the Cosmic Perspective.

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          • #6
            A Stud S can Legitimize an ENTIRE DEFEMSIVE UNIT

            How a true Safety will legitimize a D

            In 1988 the Denver Broncos were:
            8-8 overall
            15th in the NFL in point differential with -25 points
            Allowed 352 points 20th in the league

            In 1989 the Denver Broncos were:
            AFC CHampions
            11-5 overall
            2nd in point differential with +136 points
            Allowed 226 points 1st in the league

            What was the difference?

            A rookie S named Steve Atwater He was the only rookie to play for the unit that season. A Safety can turn a Defense around quickly! A safety can legitimize an entire unit. When you have a Stud S that a DC can count on as a sure tackler and can cover the field, you can become much more aggressive on D.

            We have seen similar turnarounds with Polumalu, Bob Sanders, Brian Dawkins, etc...

            This team needs to find a name and a presence at the S positions and throw them in the fire! I personally like the kid from Mizzou now that Taylor Mays is staying in school.
            Last edited by jhildebrand; 02-09-2009, 04:09 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by jhildebrand View Post
              How a true Safety will legitimize a D

              In 1988 the Denver Broncos were:
              8-8 overall
              15th in the NFL in point differential with -25 points
              Allowed 352 points 20th in the league

              In 1989 the Denver Broncos were:
              AFC CHampions
              11-5 overall
              2nd in point differential with +136 points
              Allowed 226 points 1st in the league

              What was the difference?

              A rookie S named Steve Atwater He was the only rookie to play for the unit that season. In fact, he was almost the only change on D. A Safety can turn a Defense around quickly! A safety can legitimize an entire unit. When you have a Stud S that a DC can count on as a sure tackler and can cover the field, you can become much more aggressive on D.

              We have seen similar turnarounds with Polumalu, Bob Sanders, Brian Dawkins, etc...

              This team needs to find a name and a presence at the S positions and throw them in the fire! I personally like the kid from Mizzou now that Taylor Mays is staying in school.
              I agree but the difference is that the 1988 defense was okay and ours sucks. So now we need to get and okay/good defense and then get a good/great afety to make our defense even better.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Broncos6FTW View Post
                The patriots did it by accident.

                Its a toss up, you need a good line to make your secondary excel. So I would actually prefer a garbage Saftey with an all star Dline.

                Once all the pieces of the puzzle are together or for the most part, a safety is a good choice. :salute!:
                This discussion of S over DL has been the chicken and the egg around here for a few years now. What came first the coverage sack or the rush sack. There is no doubt it takes a team. I think its fair to say that one position has more of an impact though.

                I laughingly and friendly see it the opposite I'd prefer a Star S with a developing (garbage) DL, of course with Moss, Crowder, Robertson, Peterson and Thomas, I don't see them as garbage just young and developing. I like Dumervil after 3 or 4 years he has developed into a decent pass rusher. I'd also like to point out to all the Robertson haters that he only played like 46% of the time so we wouldn't have to give up a draft pick for him. I'd like to see him get more snaps in a game maybe he'd get more stats too.

                As far as pieces of the puzzle with the CBs we got IMO if you give this team a star S safety valve we can install some killer blitz packages, everyone knows the best way to get a QB is to send close to the same amount of attackers as they have blockers if not more.

                I just think S have more of an impact on the outcome of games.
                I hate the Defenseless Receiver rule and the fines. Posted since '07. 2011 rule addition :nono: backhand a fool!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Tell that to the Chargers and Jaguars, they drafted their precious Stud Safety and got worse on defense.

                  You could put Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu on this defense and it'd still suck ass.......

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                  • #10
                    I think a stout defensive line is better in the long run for creating great defense. A solid line will control the LOS, helping shut down the running game, and making the QB make poor throws.

                    In the short term though, an impact safety will go a longer way to fixing the defense. We were one of the worst teams in terms of giving up plays over 20 yards, and an impact safety would immediatley help that number.

                    Weve seen that it normally takes a year or two for DL to start to make an impact on their team, whereas the "skill" positions make a much more immediate impact.
                    sigpic

                    I think Ben Tate will be the best back taken in the 2010 draft. (5/3/10)
                    SportsXPicks, check out the Rants and Opinions section

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                    • #11
                      ........I love safeties (c'mon I'm a John Lynch superfan) but Safety is probably one of the least important positions on defense........

                      it starts in the trenches.......I know its a cliche, but it's true. No matter how good the Cornerbacks or safeties are, they look like little grade-schoolers going against NFL receivers if there is no talent up front......


                      sigpic


                      FA Targets: DT Jason Jones, DT Pat Simms, S Reggie Smith, LB Dan Connor



                      :cool:

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by broncsandredsox View Post
                        I agree but the difference is that the 1988 defense was okay and ours sucks. So now we need to get and okay/good defense and then get a good/great afety to make our defense even better.
                        In 1988 that defense gave up 352 points. That isn't much worse than the defense the last two seasons!

                        In fact, look at what the Browncos did to help matters. You can turn the defensive side of the ball around faster than on O.

                        With D it is easier to place a Rook in and expect big things even at the QB Position of the defense-MLB. Look at rookies that have come in and been huge on D recently-Demeco Ryans, Patrick Willis, Amobi Okoye, Mario Williams (now), T Suggs, the list goes on.

                        The fact is this defense can make a huge leap with a few good draft picks and FA's. Not to mention, with our Offense, they don't necessarily need to be the #1 D. Indy won it a few years ago with a low ranked defense.

                        Cheer up Bronco fans. We have a new regime and can only expect the unexpected. That is more than we could say the last few years-whether you liked Shanny or not. This team could turn it around pretty quickly!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jhildebrand View Post
                          How a true Safety will legitimize a D

                          In 1988 the Denver Broncos were:
                          8-8 overall
                          15th in the NFL in point differential with -25 points
                          Allowed 352 points 20th in the league

                          In 1989 the Denver Broncos were:
                          AFC CHampions
                          11-5 overall
                          2nd in point differential with +136 points
                          Allowed 226 points 1st in the league

                          What was the difference?

                          A rookie S named Steve Atwater He was the only rookie to play for the unit that season. A Safety can turn a Defense around quickly! A safety can legitimize an entire unit. When you have a Stud S that a DC can count on as a sure tackler and can cover the field, you can become much more aggressive on D.
                          I believe a Safety can wait. As noted, a good safety can come in and start right away and have an impact. The Dline takes time. You need to get the Dline asap so that they can start to develop. Waiting to build the Dline potentially delays the overall improvement - even with a great safety.

                          As for the big turnaround in 1989 - there was more to that than just Atwater. Two other significant events that year:

                          1) Wade Phillips first year as DC. His simplified scheme allowed certain players (e.g. Michael Brooks, who couldn't grasp Collier's 3-4) to make an impact.

                          2) 1989 was the first year of Plan B free agency. The Broncos picked up starting DE Alphonso Carriker. Also, Ron Holmes was either a Plan B or a trade that year. End result - an improved Dline (which is what the current Defense needs).

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by neutessa View Post
                            I believe a Safety can wait. As noted, a good safety can come in and start right away and have an impact. The Dline takes time. You need to get the Dline asap so that they can start to develop. Waiting to build the Dline potentially delays the overall improvement - even with a great safety.

                            As for the big turnaround in 1989 - there was more to that than just Atwater. Two other significant events that year:

                            1) Wade Phillips first year as DC. His simplified scheme allowed certain players (e.g. Michael Brooks, who couldn't grasp Collier's 3-4) to make an impact.

                            2) 1989 was the first year of Plan B free agency. The Broncos picked up starting DE Alphonso Carriker. Also, Ron Holmes was either a Plan B or a trade that year. End result - an improved Dline (which is what the current Defense needs).
                            I don't disagree with any of that. I am taking to task the idea that a turnaround on D is going to take years. It shouldn't and doesn't have to.

                            With the number of picks this team has, they can afford to go with a S at the end of the first day. The bottom line is you can have rookie contributors anywhere on the defense whereas that isn't necessarily the case with offense.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jhildebrand View Post
                              I don't disagree with any of that. I am taking to task the idea that a turnaround on D is going to take years. It shouldn't and doesn't have to.

                              With the number of picks this team has, they can afford to go with a S at the end of the first day. The bottom line is you can have rookie contributors anywhere on the defense whereas that isn't necessarily the case with offense.
                              Absolutely agree with you there. I'm not against a safety at all. However, if the choice is between a safety and a Dlineman - and you have both equally rated - I think you have to go with the DL right now.

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