The Combine DL and LB Discussion Thread

[MindField]

He lost his job because Webster came back and Shanny favored him.


Spencer was better than Webster last year, unless you didn't actually watch a game last year and just are going off of what the offseason thoughts were on them both.


Either way: lost a lil cred. in my book. I think Spencer at this point is going to surprise a lot of people this coming season.


BTW: I am in agreeance with Lanc, at this point I think we basically take Moreno or somehow peddle the pick off... just can't see how we would unless someone lights up a Pro Day that is unexpected.

If you start your take with 'I think', then Larsen's performance is not based on anything but your opinion about him, and your hope he will justify it....but he did exactly NOTHING on the field last year to suggest he will be anything but a special teams guy.

[MileHighSpirit]

Tyson Jackson is a viable pick, but he also really has done nothing to shoot up the boards and really cement him as a better prospect then Maualuga or anyone else. I am high on Jackson, but at this point I see Denver bringing in Olshansky, Canty, Wright or Cody to man the end position, when you add in Thomas, Clemmons, Peterson, Askew and McBean...not sure Denver will be pushing to get another defensive end so early in the draft. We will see, and Jackson could be the pick, but in accordance to value and needs, I at this time think Moreno will be the pick.

I expect Olshanksy or Canty as well (and am really excited about getting one of them), but they both fit better at RDE which becomes more of a pass rush role in a 3-4/4-3 hybrid defense (which makes me think we will target Canty first). Jackson is a darned near perfect LDE. He can function well enough as an under-tackle when we need to play a 4-3, and he can be a dominating Ty Warren type player in a 3-4.

Thomas, Peterson, McBean, etc... All those guys are not dominating players. Servicable? Good depth? Yes, and yes. They will never dominate or be nearly as versatile like Tyson Jackson can be.

Honestly, what more could we ask for than the chance to basically have a guy like this fall in our laps? If it weren't for all the great pass rushers that will go in the top 11, this guy would be gone to some 3-4 team. People forget that even the best 3-4 OLBs get their advantageous pass rush opportunities because other people take up the blockers. Merriman has Phillips on the other side and Olshansky, Williams, and Castillo collapsing the pocket. Harrison had a pedestrian 8.5 sacks in '07 and blossomed as Woodley brought the heat from the other side. Joey Porter has Starks and Ferguson (and some promising young risers in Merling and Langford). Suggs has Ngata and Pryce.

Who do we have?

...and where is the normally reliable advocate for Dline importance, MuG? Common man, I saw your recent post after you saw Jackson's combine numbers. Get on board. Make him this year's Vince Wilfork or Haloti Ngata.

[lancane]

I expect Olshanksy or Canty as well (and am really excited about getting one of them), but they both fit better at RDE which becomes more of a pass rush role in a 3-4/4-3 hybrid defense (which makes me think we will target Canty first). Jackson is a darned near perfect LDE. He can function well enough as an under-tackle when we need to play a 4-3, and he can be a dominating Ty Warren type player in a 3-4.

Thomas, Peterson, McBean, etc... All those guys are not dominating players. Servicable? Good depth? Yes, and yes. They will never dominate or be nearly as versatile like Tyson Jackson can be.

Honestly, what more could we ask for than the chance to basically have a guy like this fall in our laps? If it weren't for all the great pass rushers that will go in the top 11, this guy would be gone to some 3-4 team. People forget that even the best 3-4 OLBs get their advantageous pass rush opportunities because other people take up the blockers. Merriman has Phillips on the other side and Olshansky, Williams, and Castillo collapsing the pocket. Harrison had a pedestrian 8.5 sacks in '07 and blossomed as Woodley brought the heat from the other side. Joey Porter has Starks and Ferguson (and some promising young risers in Merling and Langford). Suggs has Ngata and Pryce.

Who do we have?

...and where is the normally reliable advocate for Dline importance, MuG? Common man, I saw your recent post after you saw Jackson's combine numbers. Get on board. Make him this year's Vince Wilfork or Haloti Ngata.

I was one of the first on here to indicate that Jackson could be the pick at 12, and I do understand the importance of a solid defensive line. Fact is that whether we sign Canty, Olshansky, Cody or Wright, we can not just cut all of those we have on the roster and the coaches will have to see where their talents could be used. So, I am not against it at all. But I think the value right now for Denver is Brown and Moreno. If both are gone, I think it will be between Jackson and Cushing...but chances are high one of those two is there and I think it is more likely to be Moreno at this point. He fits a need, he is a solid pick and he sures up the one offensive hole Denver has.

I have always been high on Jackson. We will just have to wait and see, but I would not discount the idea of taking him with our first pick.

[elevation INC]

I was one of the first on here to indicate that Jackson could be the pick at 12, and I do understand the importance of a solid defensive line. Fact is that whether we sign Canty, Olshansky, Cody or Wright, we can not just cut all of those we have on the roster and the coaches will have to see where their talents could be used. So, I am not against it at all. But I think the value right now for Denver is Brown and Moreno. If both are gone, I think it will be between Jackson and Cushing...but chances are high one of those two is there and I think it is more likely to be Moreno at this point. He fits a need, he is a solid pick and he sures up the one offensive hole Denver has.

I have always been high on Jackson. We will just have to wait and see, but I would not discount the idea of taking him with our first pick.

i beleive we are currently down to 4 options cushing, jackson, and moreno or wells. with english have risen 20 lbs in weight he doesnt fit the rush lb role and will be a mid first pick. cushing fits 3 positions with his versatility as well as gives us a proven defensive performer. Jackson gives us the best 3-4 end in the draft and moreno and wells fill a need also. i think curry, raji, okrapo, brown and jenkins are all gone by the time we pick.

and yes lancane i do believe you, me and maybe 1 or 2 others have been on the jackson wagon for sometime....:salute!:



i personally hope we select tyson jackson, but cushing is actually a safe pick as well becasue of his versatility. he gives us a good chance at getting a guy that is sure to fit and play next year on this team somewhere other than special teams.....SAM in 4-3 looks, ILB in 3-4 looks, but also rush LB in pass rush situations....im not high on the cushing pick but it should be safe, and MUG was the first one to call cushing at 12 FYI....lol

i do not think moreno or wells are the franchise back we need, but i am not blind enough to say they arent options either.....

[MindField]

i beleive we are currently down to 4 options cushing, jackson, and moreno or wells. with english have risen 20 lbs in weight he doesnt fit the rush lb role and will be a mid first pick. cushing fits 3 positions with his versatility as well as gives us a proven defensive performer. Jackson gives us the best 3-4 end in the draft and moreno and wells fill a need also. i think curry, raji, okrapo, brown and jenkins are all gone by the time we pick.

and yes lancane i do believe you, me and maybe 1 or 2 others have been on the jackson wagon for sometime....:salute!:



i personally hope we select tyson jackson, but cushing is actually a safe pick as well becasue of his versatility. he gives us a good chance at getting a guy that is sure to fit and play next year on this team somewhere other than special teams.....SAM in 4-3 looks, ILB in 3-4 looks, but also rush LB in pass rush situations....im not high on the cushing pick but it should be safe, and MUG was the first one to call cushing at 12 FYI....lol

i do not think moreno or wells are the franchise back we need, but i am not blind enough to say they arent options either.....

Just because we can take Tyson Jackson, but that does not mean we SHOULD.

Taking Tyson Jackson would be roughly the equivalent of taking Jarvis Moss or Tim Crowder.

Two years from now we will be talking about what a stiff he is.

[lancane]

i beleive we are currently down to 4 options cushing, jackson, and moreno or wells. with english have risen 20 lbs in weight he doesnt fit the rush lb role and will be a mid first pick. cushing fits 3 positions with his versatility as well as gives us a proven defensive performer. Jackson gives us the best 3-4 end in the draft and moreno and wells fill a need also. i think curry, raji, okrapo, brown and jenkins are all gone by the time we pick.

and yes lancane i do believe you, me and maybe 1 or 2 others have been on the jackson wagon for sometime....:salute!:



i personally hope we select tyson jackson, but cushing is actually a safe pick as well becasue of his versatility. he gives us a good chance at getting a guy that is sure to fit and play next year on this team somewhere other than special teams.....SAM in 4-3 looks, ILB in 3-4 looks, but also rush LB in pass rush situations....im not high on the cushing pick but it should be safe, and MUG was the first one to call cushing at 12 FYI....lol

i do not think moreno or wells are the franchise back we need, but i am not blind enough to say they arent options either.....

Actually, Cushing is far from a safe pick, he has risen from fast because of a good showing...but let's not forget his injury issues nor the fact that there are traces of a steroid scandal still upon him. I think he has risen his stock enough to be the 12th pick, but I will not say he is of value at the pick.

Brown, Moreno and Jackson make more sense at the spot. But Cushing is a possible...not sure how I would feel about the pick, I guess I would be fine. But there are other outside linebackers or transitional linebackers that I would rather have in round two and so on.

[elevation INC]

Actually, Cushing is far from a safe pick, he has risen from fast because of a good showing...but let's not forget his injury issues nor the fact that there are traces of a steroid scandal still upon him. I think he has risen his stock enough to be the 12th pick, but I will not say he is of value at the pick.

Brown, Moreno and Jackson make more sense at the spot. But Cushing is a possible...not sure how I would feel about the pick, I guess I would be fine. But there are other outside linebackers or transitional linebackers that I would rather have in round two and so on.

injury history aside the steroid crap is just media crap....there is no fact to it...his versatility makes him a safe pick, while injuries are possible he has 3 spots he can play from on this team......jackson to me makes the most sense now.....he to me seems like a DL verison of RYAN clady......

i also like some of the rush lb's in rd 2. in my mock i will go with tyson jackson but i can easily see brian cushing a the pick especially since Lb's usually have a succesful transition rate....

[Cugel]

i beleive we are currently down to 4 options cushing, jackson, and moreno or wells. with english have risen 20 lbs in weight he doesnt fit the rush lb role and will be a mid first pick. cushing fits 3 positions with his versatility as well as gives us a proven defensive performer. Jackson gives us the best 3-4 end in the draft and moreno and wells fill a need also. i think curry, raji, okrapo, brown and jenkins are all gone by the time we pick.

and yes lancane i do believe you, me and maybe 1 or 2 others have been on the jackson wagon for sometime....:salute!:

i personally hope we select tyson jackson, but cushing is actually a safe pick as well becasue of his versatility. he gives us a good chance at getting a guy that is sure to fit and play next year on this team somewhere other than special teams.....SAM in 4-3 looks, ILB in 3-4 looks, but also rush LB in pass rush situations....im not high on the cushing pick but it should be safe, and MUG was the first one to call cushing at 12 FYI....lol

i do not think moreno or wells are the franchise back we need, but i am not blind enough to say they arent options either.....

There are a LOT more than 4 options for the Broncos right now!

That's because you can't predict exactly what's going to happen in the draft, so you don't know who will fall!

Nobody knows at this point who the Broncos will have available or who they have at the top of their draft boards. Most people THINK it's Raji, but who really knows? And after him?

Just one example: The Broncos might well be counting on Marcus Thomas to move out to play LDE in which case they probably wouldn't draft one in the top rounds.

If they sign a FA RB, does that mean no RB on the first day?

What about trading back and stockpiling an extra pick, which Xanders has talked about? That might mean DT Ron Brace.

I think it's clear the Lions will take a QB #1, because there's NO OT or DE worthy of the overall #1 spot this year. Will KC take Sanchez or Stafford, and if they pass on whoever's left will the 49ers grab him to be their franchise QB? Especially if Raji is off the board to Green Bay or before?

Will the Bengals take LT Jason Smith assuming Monroe is off the boards or will they grab a defensive player?

Will Green Bay take Raji at #9? Will he move up into the top 5-6?

Will a top CB sneak into the top 10 the way they normally do? Vontae Davis or Jenkins could easily be in the top 10.

Will the Raiders take Oher, which might be a very good choice for them since they desperately need a RT to protect their investment in Russell? Or will Crabtree fall to them and Al Davis take a WR? Normally, you don't use a top 10 pick for a RT, but Al Davis does whatever the hell he wants.
Will Seattle take Crabtree, and if so, will Al Davis grab Maclin? Obviously the Raiders need a WR and if Crabtree if gone he could take Maclin to be that speedy weapon Russell needs. After all, Javon Walker certainly isn't the answer.

Will anybody take a Moreno in the top 10? I'm not betting on that, but normally at least 1 RB is taken there.

There are too many imponderables for anybody to predict exactly who will be available at #12. Everette Brown? Maybin? Jackson? Raji? Jenkins? Davis? Orakpo? Maualuga? Peria Jerry? Brain Cushing?

[elevation INC]

There are a LOT more than 4 options for the Broncos right now!

That's because you can't predict exactly what's going to happen in the draft, so you don't know who will fall!

Nobody knows at this point who the Broncos will have available or who they have at the top of their draft boards. Most people THINK it's Raji, but who really knows? And after him?

Just one example: The Broncos might well be counting on Marcus Thomas to move out to play LDE in which case they probably wouldn't draft one in the top rounds.

If they sign a FA RB, does that mean no RB on the first day?

What about trading back and stockpiling an extra pick, which Xanders has talked about? That might mean DT Ron Brace.

I think it's clear the Lions will take a QB #1, because there's NO OT or DE worthy of the overall #1 spot this year. Will KC take Sanchez or Stafford, and if they pass on whoever's left will the 49ers grab him to be their franchise QB? Especially if Raji is off the board to Green Bay or before?

Will the Bengals take LT Jason Smith assuming Monroe is off the boards or will they grab a defensive player?

Will Green Bay take Raji at #9? Will he move up into the top 5-6?

Will a top CB sneak into the top 10 the way they normally do? Vontae Davis or Jenkins could easily be in the top 10.

Will the Raiders take Oher, which might be a very good choice for them since they desperately need a RT to protect their investment in Russell? Or will Crabtree fall to them and Al Davis take a WR? Normally, you don't use a top 10 pick for a RT, but Al Davis does whatever the hell he wants.
Will Seattle take Crabtree, and if so, will Al Davis grab Maclin? Obviously the Raiders need a WR and if Crabtree if gone he could take Maclin to be that speedy weapon Russell needs. After all, Javon Walker certainly isn't the answer.

Will anybody take a Moreno in the top 10? I'm not betting on that, but normally at least 1 RB is taken there.

There are too many imponderables for anybody to predict exactly who will be available at #12. Everette Brown? Maybin? Jackson? Raji? Jenkins? Davis? Orakpo? Maualuga? Peria Jerry? Brain Cushing?

hmm lets state the obvious.....


good points, i still feel we are at 4 options, but anything can happen, at this point, and i dont disagree with that.

I am not trying to be right or wrong, which maybe i am coming off like....

I am simply debating and discussing different scenarios and different options....its very likely that it doesnt go down this way, but whats the point of a draft forum if we cant discuss....its boring otherwise.....