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Boston College Pro Day (Raji shines, Brace not so much)

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  • broncos SB2010
    replied
    Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
    I disagree Cugel.

    Brace has shown he's horribly un-athletic in all his post season workouts. His sole value is as a 2 down, run plugging, 3-4 NT. No 4-3 team is going to want him. I mean, I had him in my "Predictions" thread as a Top 40 selection. I think I am going to be wrong on that. I anticipated much, much better workouts and athleticism. The guy is a lumbering mountain, good for a 2 gap 3-4 team like us, not good for anything else.


    Out of the 2nd Round 3-4 Teams:

    The Chargers might be interested in him as a replacement to Jamal Williams, but they don't have a 2nd Round pick.

    The Patriots have stated they will re-sign Wilfork, so they're not going to pay Brace top NT money in the 2nd Round to backup. Wilfork is a 3 down player anyway.

    The Packers might, but they have a couple 330lb behemoths already in Pickett and Jolly, whom certainly offer 2 down ability like Brace. Neither could touch Raji's athleticism or ability though.

    Cleveland has much more pressing needs to worry about then a backup NT.

    San Francisco is solid at the position between Sopoaga and Franklin.

    Miami is a threat, but they have massive holes at CB, LB, and WR. And they have a solid starter in Ferguson.



    I no longer see any threat to draft Brace before we select in the 2nd Round unless some team trades up with New England right before we select. And that is possible since New England has 3 2nd Round picks and usually trades back to keep a pick for next draft. I'm going to have to adjust my mock draft because I'll have Denver taking him in round 2 now.
    A few sites I looked at today have Brace dropping to the 3rd round now. If Raji is gone at 12, I don't think Brace will be taken either. I am betting on Terrance Knighton, Sammie Hill, or Roy Miller in later rounds.
    Last edited by broncos SB2010; 03-13-2009, 09:34 PM.

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  • Mat'hir Uth Gan
    replied
    I disagree Cugel.

    Brace has shown he's horribly un-athletic in all his post season workouts. His sole value is as a 2 down, run plugging, 3-4 NT. No 4-3 team is going to want him. I mean, I had him in my "Predictions" thread as a Top 40 selection. I think I am going to be wrong on that. I anticipated much, much better workouts and athleticism. The guy is a lumbering mountain, good for a 2 gap 3-4 team like us, not good for anything else.


    Out of the 2nd Round 3-4 Teams:

    The Chargers might be interested in him as a replacement to Jamal Williams, but they don't have a 2nd Round pick.

    The Patriots have stated they will re-sign Wilfork, so they're not going to pay Brace top NT money in the 2nd Round to backup. Wilfork is a 3 down player anyway.

    The Packers might, but they have a couple 330lb behemoths already in Pickett and Jolly, whom certainly offer 2 down ability like Brace. Neither could touch Raji's athleticism or ability though.

    Cleveland has much more pressing needs to worry about then a backup NT.

    San Francisco is solid at the position between Sopoaga and Franklin.

    Miami is a threat, but they have massive holes at CB, LB, and WR. And they have a solid starter in Ferguson.



    I no longer see any threat to draft Brace before we select in the 2nd Round unless some team trades up with New England right before we select. And that is possible since New England has 3 2nd Round picks and usually trades back to keep a pick for next draft. I'm going to have to adjust my mock draft because I'll have Denver taking him in round 2 now.

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  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
    It's worth noting we've set up a private workout with Raji. Maybe we are having thoughts of trading up? Seattle might want to trade down. Their biggest need is RB and #4 is too soon for Moreno.
    Could this be a little mis-directon? Everybody in the world knows we will take Raji if he fell that far, but, Frankly he could go at #6 or #7 to Cleveland or the Raiders.

    I think this mock sums it up nicely.

    Cincinnati Bengals: Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
    Assuming that either Eugene Monroe or Jason Smith is available, this selection will be an offensive tackle. If the Seahawks and Rams take both tackles, it'll be B.J. Raji.

    The oft-injured Levi Jones, Cincinnati's current left tackle, hasn't played well in two years and probably will be cut this spring. Stacy Andrews and his torn knee ligaments, meanwhile, defected for Philadelphia.

    With Jason Smith rising up draft boards, the Bengals will be happy to select Eugene Monroe here. Monroe, an elite pass-protector, will pair well with Anthony Collins, who played extremely well down the stretch of the 2008 season. Collins should be good on either side.
    The question with Ron Brace is how FAR he falls in the 2nd. He could easily be taken before Denver picks:

    #48. Denver Broncos: Ron Brace, NT, Boston College
    The Broncos don't really have a monstrous nose tackle-caliber presence on the team, so they'll be looking for one early in the 2009 NFL Draft. If Ron Brace makes it past Green Bay and Miami, Denver fans will be thrilled.
    I'm not convinced Brace will last until the Broncos pick at all. In fact I'd be surprised to see it happen.

    I still say that if the Broncos want him they're going to have to trade back to later in the first round and take him there, or else trade UP into the early 2nd round and grab him ahead of Miami or the Packers. That would be a slight reach perhaps, either way, since you're giving up picks to move up, or you're reaching for a player you could get probably 10-20 picks later, but you couldn't swing the deal.

    Either way it's unlikely that Ron Brace will be a Bronco.

    Leave a comment:


  • elevation INC
    replied
    Originally posted by MindField View Post
    The isolation drills they run in practice heavily favor the d-linemen, so it was a bit of a mirage that Raji had so much success. If you compare him to the previous year, Sedrick Ellis had great practices and followed that up with a great game...something Raji certainly did not do....and I am not sure about this, as I am going from memory, but wouldn't Raji have been competing against his own teammates in practice, and not the O-linemen he was going to face in the game?

    It seems to me I remember each squad having different practice schedules, so I don't think he faced Wood and Caldwell, etc during the week.
    after checking i stand corrected he did face some of his own teammates and not wood or caldwell, but we are talking about a guy like unger just as good as wood and caldwell..... the oppsoing coaches were gamplaning specifically for him....

    in eitehr case i still think he will be a beastly disrupter who will command double teams constantly....he will open things up for any DL he goes to.....

    Leave a comment:


  • MindField
    replied
    Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
    Lions starting RT and former Boston College star, Gosder Cherilus says "BJ Raji might be the best overall pick right now in this draft".

    The Lions are scouting him. Their biggest need remains at Nose Tackle. Could Raji go #1 Overall?





    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...ytzsgD96SQFSG3
    I hope he does, right after Cutler is traded to the Lions for a selection package that includes the #20 overall selection, as well as the first pick of the second round, as well as some other picks.

    That will give the Broncos enough ammo with the #12 pick to trade up and select Stafford.

    I am done with Jay Cutler.

    Leave a comment:


  • MindField
    replied
    Originally posted by elevation INC View Post
    this is what i feel is key, if he goes to a 3-4 team i think he will be used inproperly and people will start to drop from his fan base quickly. he isnt a clogger his mark will be made in the pros as a penetrator, now if he goes to a 4-3 team like seattle i think he will be dominant in a year or 2. i really think he is just an athletic freak that can become the next haynesworth, and he showed he can do some damge senior bowl week. that same wood and caldwell got rolled over by him quite a bit in the practice before the game. so i think it evens out more than your selling.


    i think raji wont do as good here anymore as i used to becasue watching tape on him his bread and butter is disruption in the backfield not plugging the run. now while can do it effectively, i think just plugging as NT will make him a average NFL starter. if he plays NT in the 4-3 or UT he will become a start very quickly.....in my opinion
    The isolation drills they run in practice heavily favor the d-linemen, so it was a bit of a mirage that Raji had so much success. If you compare him to the previous year, Sedrick Ellis had great practices and followed that up with a great game...something Raji certainly did not do....and I am not sure about this, as I am going from memory, but wouldn't Raji have been competing against his own teammates in practice, and not the O-linemen he was going to face in the game?

    It seems to me I remember each squad having different practice schedules, so I don't think he faced Wood and Caldwell, etc during the week.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mat'hir Uth Gan
    replied
    Lions starting RT and former Boston College star, Gosder Cherilus says "BJ Raji might be the best overall pick right now in this draft".

    The Lions are scouting him. Their biggest need remains at Nose Tackle. Could Raji go #1 Overall?


    While sitting out 2007, Raji played on BC's scout team. Sometimes he went up against offensive tackle Gosder Cherulis, who was drafted last April by Detroit with the 17th overall pick.

    "B.J. might be the best overall pick right now in this draft," said Cherulis, who watched the workouts. "You can draft him right now and he'll be ready for you because he's quick and smart. Ron, we didn't know what to think of him when he first got here, but he really put himself in this position."

    Raji has a workout scheduled with Denver on March 20. Brace is scheduled to work out for Tampa Bay on April 2 and New Orleans on April 6. But he doesn't know which teams have the greatest interest in him.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...ytzsgD96SQFSG3

    Leave a comment:


  • Mat'hir Uth Gan
    replied
    Or, we could use him like the Ravens use Haloti Ngata and have him as a 3-4 DE on passing downs.

    Leave a comment:


  • elevation INC
    replied
    Originally posted by MindField View Post
    If you are selling Tyson Jackson as a first round pick and knocking Brace at the same time, or selling Roid Rage Cushing, I can tell you I would rather have Brace, regardless of where a player is 'projected'. 'Value' is the most useless term associated with any draft pick. The only thing that matters is how a player performs on Sundays after he is drafted, and where he is drafted is forgotten almost as soon as the draft itself is over.

    As for Raji, we all knew he was going to go in the Top 10, so it is no suprise. The real question will be if three years down the road he deserved to be. My guess is he is going to prove he wasn't. He is a one year wonder with a very questionable work ethic, and I still don't think you can just throw out the images of Eric Wood and Antoine Caldwell steamrollling his ass in short yardage and goalline.

    ..and in the end, Raji is a 3-technique DT, and not a true NT, so he is not a great fit for the Broncos anyway.

    But hey, if the Broncos can get Brace in the second, so much the better. I still say he goes higher than that, though.
    this is what i feel is key, if he goes to a 3-4 team i think he will be used inproperly and people will start to drop from his fan base quickly. he isnt a clogger his mark will be made in the pros as a penetrator, now if he goes to a 4-3 team like seattle i think he will be dominant in a year or 2. i really think he is just an athletic freak that can become the next haynesworth, and he showed he can do some damge senior bowl week. that same wood and caldwell got rolled over by him quite a bit in the practice before the game. so i think it evens out more than your selling.


    i think raji wont do as good here anymore as i used to becasue watching tape on him his bread and butter is disruption in the backfield not plugging the run. now while can do it effectively, i think just plugging as NT will make him a average NFL starter. if he plays NT in the 4-3 or UT he will become a start very quickly.....in my opinion

    Leave a comment:


  • broncos SB2010
    replied
    Originally posted by Den615 View Post
    Wow i just had a brilliant idea.

    Trade down in the first and pick up an extra 2nd

    In the first select tyson jackson

    and with the two second round picks take evander hood and ron brace...would be nice....lol but things that make sense at 2 in the morning dont always make sense the next day
    I posted something similar a while back except I said to take Clint Sintim instead of Hood.

    Tyson, Sintim, Brace would be a good first 3 picks.

    Leave a comment:


  • MindField
    replied
    Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
    BJ Raji dominated once again. He's a Top 10 lock.

    Ron Brace did not. One NFL Coach said watching the two of them was like watching a rabbit and a turtle.

    Mike Mayock said Ron Brace is a 3rd Round pick, maybe Late 2nd. And is strictly a 2 down run plugger, which we already knew.



    Here's an NFL.com video discussing the Pro Day:

    http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f3b6ab



    There are two things of importance here.

    1) It looks like we could take DT Ron Brace in the 2nd Round easily, and maybe even in the 3rd Round, though that is unlikely.

    2) Lets stop with the Mock Drafts that have us taking Brace in the 1st Round.


    Thoughts?
    If you are selling Tyson Jackson as a first round pick and knocking Brace at the same time, or selling Roid Rage Cushing, I can tell you I would rather have Brace, regardless of where a player is 'projected'. 'Value' is the most useless term associated with any draft pick. The only thing that matters is how a player performs on Sundays after he is drafted, and where he is drafted is forgotten almost as soon as the draft itself is over.

    As for Raji, we all knew he was going to go in the Top 10, so it is no suprise. The real question will be if three years down the road he deserved to be. My guess is he is going to prove he wasn't. He is a one year wonder with a very questionable work ethic, and I still don't think you can just throw out the images of Eric Wood and Antoine Caldwell steamrollling his ass in short yardage and goalline.

    ..and in the end, Raji is a 3-technique DT, and not a true NT, so he is not a great fit for the Broncos anyway.

    But hey, if the Broncos can get Brace in the second, so much the better. I still say he goes higher than that, though.
    Last edited by MindField; 03-13-2009, 08:08 AM.

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  • expatRick
    replied
    I could see Seattle, Cincinnati, or possibly Cleveland trading down. If Scheffler, Moss, or any of the other misfit defensive players could be part of a package to move up then it's just gravy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mat'hir Uth Gan
    replied
    Originally posted by Pilfin View Post
    If we were going to move up to get Raji, it would probably look like this:

    Raji would have to slide to 8th. That would mean Seatle especially would have to pass on him. Cleveland and Oakland are also possible suitors. However, Jacksonville probably doesn't need him at 8th. Green Bay would absolultely pick him if he fell to 9th because they too are switching to a 3-4 defense under Dom Capers (the guy I WISH had been our choice for D-coordinator). They don't have a NT either.

    So we would have to trade up to 8th to get him before Green Bay. That would cost us our 3rd round pick on the draft value chart. Also, there is the possibility that Jacksonville would take Tony Scheffler intstead, since they do tend to use the TE in the passing game and lack an elite recieving TE talent.

    Going to disagree here.

    I think Jacksonville will take him at 8th. He's clearly ahead of Malcolm Jenkins in terms of value. Jacksonville has dire team needs at both DT and CB. Possibly WR as well depending on what happens with Matt Jones' situation.

    With the top OTs off the board, and that need somewhat diminished by signing Tre Thomas, the Jags will pick either Raji, Jenkins, or Crabtree/Maclin.

    In terms of DT, the Jags have Henderson whom is 30 now, and nobody else. Their defense took a massive hit last season because of the trade of Stroud.

    One thing is for sure, Jacksonville likely won't be trading down, they want and need one of the players available at 8.


    Really, I dont see any of the Top 10 teams moving down except Seattle. Maybe Cincinnati if both OTs are gone.

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  • broncofansd
    replied
    There is no way Ron Brace makes it to the 3rd Round. Not with us , KC , Greenbay , San Fran , Miami , New England , Pittsburgh , San Diego all could draft him for now or the future.


    I would love for him to fall to us in the 2nd Round but I still think he is gone before the 48th pick.



    I still say trade down from 12(unless BJ falls) draft.

    1. Clay Mathews
    2. Ron Brace
    3. Lawerence Sidbury
    4. Jasper Brinkley

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  • Broncos Bassist
    replied
    Originally posted by Pilfin View Post
    Also, there is the possibility that Jacksonville would take Tony Scheffler intstead, since they do tend to use the TE in the passing game and lack an elite recieving TE talent.
    One could hope, couldn't they? Land Raji, keep all our draft picks, and get value for Scheffler, who will likely be underutilized in McD's offense? Mark draft day down as a huge win after one round! Too bad I'm an eternal pessimist. In my world, we'll end up giving up our second and third round picks, and Raji will be a huge bust.

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