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1st Round Mock Draft - Updated

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  • #16
    Washington wont draft a QB...nevertheless trade up to get one...



    Ayers before Brown?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by housemouse View Post
      Washington wont draft a QB...nevertheless trade up to get one...



      Ayers before Brown?

      Why was Washington willing to trade Jason Campbell and 2 - 1st Round Draft picks if they weren't interested in a QB???


      Mike Mayocks called Robert Ayers the best defensive player in the draft and another scout said is The most NFL ready Defensive player in the draft.

      So he will go before Everette Brown. Kiper says he isn't that thrilled with Brown and probably why he has us drafting him.
      Last edited by broncofansd; 04-12-2009, 05:35 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by broncofansd View Post
        Why was Washington willing to trade Jason Campbell and 2 - 1st Round Draft picks if they weren't interested in a QB???


        Robert Ayers is Mike Mayocks call for best defensive player in the draft and another scout said is The most NFL ready Defensive player in the draft.

        So he will go before Everette Brown. Kiper says he isn't that thrilled with Brown and probably why he has us drafting him.
        Dude watch how you word things, read over what you posted.

        You basically just said:

        "Robert Ayers is Mike Mayocks call for best defensive player therefor this has to be true. This also means just cause Mayock and kiper don't like brown he will fall out of the top 15"

        Sounds silly a little bit?
        Humm....

        Comment


        • #19
          Washington won't want to trade up, IMHO.

          I don't think Detroit will trade for Quinn, but it's possible... too much "if" to base
          a mock on it though.

          Jax. has no need for Wells.

          I don't see NY trading up to take a QB IF Detroit already has one via a trade.

          As usual, your basing everything off of the latest RUMORS. Get more realistic.
          Club Leader: Robert Griffin III > Andrew Luck

          ^^^Get used to it.^^^

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by broncofansd View Post
            Can you please explain to me how Everette Brown is much different from Elvis Dumervil besides 3 inches in height??? And how is E. Brown better than Elvis Dumervil????
            You have asked this a ton of times so I will go ahead and take a shot at it....

            The three inches is a big deal. At 5'11 Doom is the shortest DE in the league. Transitioning to a 3-4 OLB, I still believe he will be the shortest OLB (rush backer specifically) in the NFL. Teams like to get a seal on the edge and then when the pass rush doesn't develop to stand up and try to knock down the pass. Doom doesn't do this well. He does nothing to cut down the passing lanes. The three inches, plus the additional wing span can be a big deal. How much of a big deal I do not know.... But it can't be ignored like you continue to do.

            My bigger concern is that Doom showed up for post college season games out of shape. He has struggled with this at times since he has been a pro and has not recovered quickly from his injuries, they have lingered and seemed to impact him all last year. This indicates to me that he may have work ethic problems.

            His 40 times and bench press results were similar to Brown but I believe he skipped his agility tests. That being said Brown did not test well in the three cone and 20 yrd shuttle either. Maybin and even English tested alot better than Brown in the more important tests for a DL. I dont' like Maybin because I think he plays way too small, but he seems to be very fast and put up good numbers in a big conference. I think he will struggle at the point of attack with OL.

            After the combine most teams wrote Doom off as a 3-4 OLB; not because of his size or 40 time but I believe he skipped all of his agility tests and didn't show he could transition to the OLB position as many teams had hoped. His position tests went horribly. All of the 3-4 teams dropped him off of their radar. Then because of that they said he had to play 4-3 DE. He is the shortest DE in the league. He dropped like a rock and we got a steal where we drafted him. The big factor here which can't be quantified by a 40 time or bench press is that when teams worked him out in positional skills for the OLB in a 3-4 they felt he couldn't make the transition. Brown may have the same problems.

            I have to agree with you that Brown's numbers do not stand out. Maybin has the more impressive numbers and when you factor English's size he has far more impressive numbers as well (my opinion of course). Barwin and Sidbury as second round prospects test much better as well.

            In fact, Gilbert seems to have better results all the way around than Brown as well. I know he is not a OLB prospect but it may put into perspective Browns results. Brown's 40 time is near the top for DL prospects but his 3 cone and 20 yrd drop down to middle of the pack to bottom of the pack.

            You want to know the difference I would say frame (the 3 inches) and possibly work ethic but I can't quantify that part of the statement. The bigger issue is that teams believe he can play the OLB; which they didn't with Doom.

            The more I look at it I think I would prefer to have English over Brown at this point. He had a slightly slower 40 (from his pro day) but showed much better results in the shorter tests that matter more for a DL. I think he will be the better pro. I also really like Sidbury in the 2nd; he may end up being the best of the bunch. I don't like Barwin as much (I don't think he is as developed as the others and will take time, more of a bust factor).


            I would have to say I am leaning towards English over Brown, at OLB and Gilbert over Jackson at DE..... Obviously my personal preference as most draft experts don't agree with me....

            If Raji is off the board AND we can't trade down I could live with a first round draft of Gilbert and English. Both would be reaches but I think they would be worth it. I think they will both be big time players in the NFL.

            My dream draft would be

            Raji
            Gilbert
            English or Sidbury (whichever is available when we pick in the 2nd).

            But I could live with

            Gilbert
            English
            BPA between NT, S, CB, or RB..... Ron Brace, William Moore, Lois Delmas, Sean Smith, Donald Brown... Someone in this category that has dropped more than we expected.....

            Comment


            • #21
              At OLB I would want -

              1. Clay Matthews Has played LB in college and showed great hips and very fluid. 2nd on USC in Sacks. Probably easiest transition to NFL.


              2. Robert Ayers Great size 6'3" 272lbs Pat Kirwan says he reminded him of Dwight Freeney. Still might take a little time.


              3. Connor Barwin Played TE(so he knows routes) and DE over 10 Sacks but it might take a little time to be NFL ready.


              4. Lawerence Sidbury Good size 6'3" 266lbs Very productive but also has the speed to compete in the NFL.


              5. Larry English Very productive in college. Not very fast or fluid in drills. Alot of scouts say 4-3 DE. Will definetely take some time.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Den615 View Post
                1. no one in the nfl would be stupid enough to trade their 1st for quinn
                There is already atleast one team offering a 1st for Quinn
                2. everyone is saying now that orakpo is too stiff in coverage, no.3 is way too high for a one-dimensional linebacker
                I agree, but he is still likely a top 5 pick, and the chiefs need a pass rushing OLB for their 3-4
                3. nfl teams have players visit to get some questions about the players answered, not because they will def draft them, andre smith did 19 reps without a shirt on, showing the world how fat and out of shape he is, bengals wont draft him
                Bengals have a huge need at tackle, and smith's stock really hasnt fallen that far. He is still likely a top 10 pick
                4. jaguars have alot of problems, running back is not one of them, and wells is not a cant miss talent
                I mostly agree with you, but stranger things have happened. If it was my mock they would take a reciever here
                5. san diego is not dumb enough to take a weak, unmotivated, DE like jackson with no stats, workouts, or measurables that come close to justifying this idiotic selection. only a select few ignorant bronco fans are that pathetic.
                San Diego has a huge need on the d-line, this is great value for Tyson Jackson, and unless Michael Oher is availible expect the Chargers to take the best 3-4 DE in the draft
                6. again, no one in the nfl is stupid enough to trade their 1st for quinn
                Read my comment on Quinn above
                7. broncos have bigger needs than an ilb who cant cover. dj can play we all know that, larsen turned one of the worst run defenses in the nfl into a first class run defense against some of the leagues best running backs, and you want maualuga? a free lancing, overpersuing, cant wrap up or cover linebacker? im sick of this draft, peace out
                They need a run stopping ILB, Andra Davis is a decent starter, but not the long term option. Spencer Larsen is good depth, but not a starter. He is smaller, slower, and less explosive than Maualuga

                Sorry, you really dont know what you are talking about
                1. a reporter not associated with the team said he heard it from someone else who he did not specify, you think that means it's written in stone?
                2. even if the chiefs got zach thomas, they will still most likely get aaron curry, a good all-around linebacker unlike orakpo
                3. maybe his stock hasnt fallen far in some circles of announcers and fans, but numbers as low as his show a huge lack of commitment, if anyone takes him top ten i will laugh my @$$ off at them, and keep laughing until he is out of the nfl in four years
                4. i agree with you on that
                5. watch tape of jackson, even in his highlights all the plays he makes are because of mistakes by the blocker, like going to block the wrong person or they stop moving their feet. if an nfl scout watches the tape and looks at his workouts they will not be impressed at all
                6. quinn and a bunch of picks for a first, maybe. not quinn for a first straight up
                7. larsen did more than enough to prove he is a high quality run stopper, shannahan was just to dense to see it, he can read plays much better than maualuga, and shuts down lanes instead of overpersuing to make lanes like maualuga

                im not the one here who doesnt know what they are talking about
                Last edited by Goatmaster; 04-12-2009, 06:02 PM.
                Darcel McBath 2009 Adopt-a-Bronco

                McDaniel's Assistant Assylum: Defensive Line Coach

                Jay Cutler 336-555 3666 yards 27 TD 26 INT 7W 9L
                vs.
                Kyle Orton 336-541 3802 yards 21 TD 12 INT 8W 8L
                Robert Ayers 18 Tackles 1 TD
                First Round Pick TBA

                Comment


                • #23
                  Why does everyone want LB's when that is probably the strongest part of the Denver defense??? The Broncos need BIG, MEAN defensive linemen and then dept in the secondary! The defensive backfield has 4 projected starters 30+ years old!!!
                  Another thing, if Washington or the Jets are thinking about trading up and getting Stafford or Sanchez, why not just give Cleveland a #1 fo Quinn and save the rest of those draft choices? Quinn is probably a better prospect than Stafford or Sanchez and has NFL experence. I think Orton may be better in the McDaniel system than any of the three of them!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by dogman67156 View Post
                    Why does everyone want LB's when that is probably the strongest part of the Denver defense??? The Broncos need BIG, MEAN defensive linemen and then dept in the secondary! The defensive backfield has 4 projected starters 30+ years old!!!
                    Another thing, if Washington or the Jets are thinking about trading up and getting Stafford or Sanchez, why not just give Cleveland a #1 fo Quinn and save the rest of those draft choices? Quinn is probably a better prospect than Stafford or Sanchez and has NFL experence. I think Orton may be better in the McDaniel system than any of the three of them!

                    DJ is very good player but not dominate.
                    Andra Davis is good player but definetely not dominate.
                    Elvis Dumervil our OLB has never played the position.
                    Jarvis Moss our 1st Round Pick from 2007 so far sucks
                    Wesley Woodyard is very good LB that everyone thinks is too small
                    Spencer Larson is good but unproven so far

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Good points but the front line can't stop anything and gives the opposition quarterback plenty of time to pick the secondary apart and if anyone goes down in the secondary of oldtimers, who is going to fill in? Another thing, if they draft one of these "DE/LB" combination players isn't that the same thing they have in Moss, Dumervil or Crowder? I have seen some of these mock drafts that has 2 linebackers drafted by Denver in the first round and 2 or 3 more in later rounds!
                      The defensive line should be first concern and a good safety to learn under Dawkins should be considered before we add to the over populated linebacking core. The free agent linemen they signed the last 2 months are nothing to brag about.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by broncofansd View Post
                        At OLB I would want -

                        1. Clay Matthews Has played LB in college and showed great hips and very fluid. 2nd on USC in Sacks. Probably easiest transition to NFL.


                        2. Robert Ayers Great size 6'3" 272lbs Pat Kirwan says he reminded him of Dwight Freeney. Still might take a little time.


                        3. Connor Barwin Played TE(so he knows routes) and DE over 10 Sacks but it might take a little time to be NFL ready.


                        4. Lawerence Sidbury Good size 6'3" 266lbs Very productive but also has the speed to compete in the NFL.


                        5. Larry English Very productive in college. Not very fast or fluid in drills. Alot of scouts say 4-3 DE. Will definetely take some time.
                        I have concerns about Matthews size compared to the others. I think he plays just under 240. I really think we need some players that bring a bigger physical game to the field. I personally like Sidbury and English the best on your list. I think they are the best combination of performance and size we need for the position.

                        Ayers is the biggest boom or bust project of them all. I will pass, especially since we already have 2 boom or bust options at the OLB position in Moss and Doom. Ayers always played to the level of his competition and didn't start until he was a senior (even though he was brought in as a top Prep prospect and given a chance to earn the start every single year). Too risky in my opinion. Ayers reminds someone of Freeney? Really? Freeney is a 230 DE that relys on speed to run past people. He is explosive and extremely fast. Ayers does not have that type speed but has better size for the position. He should hold up better against the run and have a better power game. If he doesn't I would have even more concerns about him. Ayers has lots of tackles for loss and little sacks.... Freeney has lots of sacks.... I think this is telling about what Ayers brings to the table. I don't like the comparison at all.

                        Ayers has move too far up the draft board to be a good value based on the risk (IMO of course).....

                        Barwin is very fast..... He got ten sacks this year because he is fast off of the edge. Just because he played TE does not mean he knows how to cover one. the change means he has great athleticism (and that he didn't work out as a top TE). I like his speed but he knows the least about playing on the D side of the ball of any of the prospects. I think he will take the longest to transition of any on your list. He needs to learn how to play the position. He won't be able to just run around everyone. I think he has the potential to be the workout warrior flop of this draft. Someone will probably take him late first round just because of his combine results......

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by myoung View Post
                          You have asked this a ton of times so I will go ahead and take a shot at it....

                          The three inches is a big deal. At 5'11 Doom is the shortest DE in the league. Transitioning to a 3-4 OLB, I still believe he will be the shortest OLB (rush backer specifically) in the NFL. Teams like to get a seal on the edge and then when the pass rush doesn't develop to stand up and try to knock down the pass. Doom doesn't do this well. He does nothing to cut down the passing lanes. The three inches, plus the additional wing span can be a big deal. How much of a big deal I do not know.... But it can't be ignored like you continue to do.

                          My bigger concern is that Doom showed up for post college season games out of shape. He has struggled with this at times since he has been a pro and has not recovered quickly from his injuries, they have lingered and seemed to impact him all last year. This indicates to me that he may have work ethic problems.

                          His 40 times and bench press results were similar to Brown but I believe he skipped his agility tests. That being said Brown did not test well in the three cone and 20 yrd shuttle either. Maybin and even English tested alot better than Brown in the more important tests for a DL. I dont' like Maybin because I think he plays way too small, but he seems to be very fast and put up good numbers in a big conference. I think he will struggle at the point of attack with OL.

                          After the combine most teams wrote Doom off as a 3-4 OLB; not because of his size or 40 time but I believe he skipped all of his agility tests and didn't show he could transition to the OLB position as many teams had hoped. His position tests went horribly. All of the 3-4 teams dropped him off of their radar. Then because of that they said he had to play 4-3 DE. He is the shortest DE in the league. He dropped like a rock and we got a steal where we drafted him. The big factor here which can't be quantified by a 40 time or bench press is that when teams worked him out in positional skills for the OLB in a 3-4 they felt he couldn't make the transition. Brown may have the same problems.

                          I have to agree with you that Brown's numbers do not stand out. Maybin has the more impressive numbers and when you factor English's size he has far more impressive numbers as well (my opinion of course). Barwin and Sidbury as second round prospects test much better as well.

                          In fact, Gilbert seems to have better results all the way around than Brown as well. I know he is not a OLB prospect but it may put into perspective Browns results. Brown's 40 time is near the top for DL prospects but his 3 cone and 20 yrd drop down to middle of the pack to bottom of the pack.

                          You want to know the difference I would say frame (the 3 inches) and possibly work ethic but I can't quantify that part of the statement. The bigger issue is that teams believe he can play the OLB; which they didn't with Doom.

                          The more I look at it I think I would prefer to have English over Brown at this point. He had a slightly slower 40 (from his pro day) but showed much better results in the shorter tests that matter more for a DL. I think he will be the better pro. I also really like Sidbury in the 2nd; he may end up being the best of the bunch. I don't like Barwin as much (I don't think he is as developed as the others and will take time, more of a bust factor).


                          I would have to say I am leaning towards English over Brown, at OLB and Gilbert over Jackson at DE..... Obviously my personal preference as most draft experts don't agree with me....

                          If Raji is off the board AND we can't trade down I could live with a first round draft of Gilbert and English. Both would be reaches but I think they would be worth it. I think they will both be big time players in the NFL.

                          My dream draft would be

                          Raji
                          Gilbert
                          English or Sidbury (whichever is available when we pick in the 2nd).

                          But I could live with

                          Gilbert
                          English
                          BPA between NT, S, CB, or RB..... Ron Brace, William Moore, Lois Delmas, Sean Smith, Donald Brown... Someone in this category that has dropped more than we expected.....
                          This is a very good explanation and I'd agree with everything, even English over Brown; but I'd also argue that we'd take Brown over Maualuga because OLB is a bigger need than ILB.
                          sigpic
                          Made by Houshmazode

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by broncofansd View Post
                            Mark Schereff on ESPN said Denver should draft Rey Maualuga because every since Al Wilson got hurt , Denver hasn't had a hard hitting player to impose his will on the other team.


                            Maualuga looks like a bad azz in the pic above.
                            That is why 90% of Rey Rey fans like him if they knew anything about football they would know he is 1st round FOOLS GOLD. 2nd round ok First not a chance.
                            The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
                            While he sits by his hearth at home.
                            Quickly finds when questioned by others .
                            That he knows nothing at all.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by myoung View Post
                              I have concerns about Matthews size compared to the others. I think he plays just under 240. I really think we need some players that bring a bigger physical game to the field. I personally like Sidbury and English the best on your list. I think they are the best combination of performance and size we need for the position.

                              Ayers is the biggest boom or bust project of them all. I will pass, especially since we already have 2 boom or bust options at the OLB position in Moss and Doom. Ayers always played to the level of his competition and didn't start until he was a senior (even though he was brought in as a top Prep prospect and given a chance to earn the start every single year). Too risky in my opinion. Ayers reminds someone of Freeney? Really? Freeney is a 230 DE that relys on speed to run past people. He is explosive and extremely fast. Ayers does not have that type speed but has better size for the position. He should hold up better against the run and have a better power game. If he doesn't I would have even more concerns about him. Ayers has lots of tackles for loss and little sacks.... Freeney has lots of sacks.... I think this is telling about what Ayers brings to the table. I don't like the comparison at all.

                              Ayers has move too far up the draft board to be a good value based on the risk (IMO of course).....

                              Barwin is very fast..... He got ten sacks this year because he is fast off of the edge. Just because he played TE does not mean he knows how to cover one. the change means he has great athleticism (and that he didn't work out as a top TE). I like his speed but he knows the least about playing on the D side of the ball of any of the prospects. I think he will take the longest to transition of any on your list. He needs to learn how to play the position. He won't be able to just run around everyone. I think he has the potential to be the workout warrior flop of this draft. Someone will probably take him late first round just because of his combine results......
                              Did someone just mention Vernon Davis? Vernon Gholston.... good points.
                              The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
                              While he sits by his hearth at home.
                              Quickly finds when questioned by others .
                              That he knows nothing at all.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by broncofansd View Post
                                At OLB I would want -

                                1. Clay Matthews Has played LB in college and showed great hips and very fluid. 2nd on USC in Sacks. Probably easiest transition to NFL.


                                2. Robert Ayers Great size 6'3" 272lbs Pat Kirwan says he reminded him of Dwight Freeney. Still might take a little time.


                                3. Connor Barwin Played TE(so he knows routes) and DE over 10 Sacks but it might take a little time to be NFL ready.


                                4. Lawerence Sidbury Good size 6'3" 266lbs Very productive but also has the speed to compete in the NFL.


                                5. Larry English Very productive in college. Not very fast or fluid in drills. Alot of scouts say 4-3 DE. Will definetely take some time.
                                Im sorry SD but that was a horrible response dude. you have no rebutal?
                                The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
                                While he sits by his hearth at home.
                                Quickly finds when questioned by others .
                                That he knows nothing at all.

                                Comment

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