Trading Moreno?

[Max Power]

Moreno is too good to fall to #18. If we want him, we will have to hope he's still around at #12 and draft him there. Mayock has him as the 4th best player in this entire draft. He's a finished product, he does everything excellent from receiving, blocking, protecting the ball, and has moves to spare. He's doesn't have elite speed, but a lot of top RBs from Emmitt Smith to Terrell Davis did not either.

Moreno likes to run high. Has the build and body of a wide receiver. Lacks a burst through the hole, and to run away from defenders. Not going to be a homerun threat at the next level, and has a lot of trouble getting through the first level unscathed. Slowed down by arm tackles often. His spin moves probably won't work in the NFL. He won't be able to jump over defenders in the NFL. Not hard to tackle once guys wrap him up.

[Joshecalpoly]

Well there are a few players that may not make it to 18 that we need at 12. The only thing that Philly has thats worth getting are draft picks LB and secondary maybe a DE. We already have there best secondary player. Also with anger towards are team for getting Dawkins maybe why they dont want to trade with us as of now.

If they traded are 12th it would have to be a 1st a 2nd and a 5th just to be fair. That changes if they added a player into the mix

If 18th Ild think a 1st and 5th rounder would be compensation enough. However, considering who it is they want and how bad they may want him ild try to play hard ball and get more out of them.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

That's a good point.

I suppose they would want the 12th pick if they were after Moreno.

What do you think would be fair compensation?

#12 is a good slot, the money is not too out of whack, so that area still has value. I think the draft chart is solid still.

Thus, swap 1sts and they'd have to give up their 2nd rounder selection (#51).


I'd rather have Moreno then an extra 2nd rounder though. To me, there's him, and then there is every other RB in this draft. And I believe RB is one of our biggest needs.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Moreno likes to run high. Has the build and body of a wide receiver. Lacks a burst through the hole, and to run away from defenders. Not going to be a homerun threat at the next level, and has a lot of trouble getting through the first level unscathed. Slowed down by arm tackles often. His spin moves probably won't work in the NFL. He won't be able to jump over defenders in the NFL. Not hard to tackle once guys wrap him up.

I'm not sure I agree with that. I know Mike Mayock does not.

He does run a little high at times and he might not be a homerun threat at the next level. But Emmitt and TD went the distance all the time and they were slower then Moreno. At Georgia, he did not get caught from behind very often. I completely disagree that he lacks a burst through the hole. He's extremely quick and very powerful (he did have the best 3 cone drill, 6.84, which measures change of direction and quickness). Its his long speed which is in question. And as far as body types, he's 5'10, 220 lbs. That's bigger then most NFL RBs. He's vastly similar to Frank Gore and he has no problems in the NFL. And Moreno runs through arm tackles. Mike Mayock said he's the most aggressive RB since Adrian Peterson and very difficult to tackle.

I think you've got Moreno mixed up with another RB. Or maybe Mayock does. Regardless, I think he's a rare talent that only comes along once in awhile. I hope we get him.

[hardcorebronco]

Moreno likes to run high. Has the build and body of a wide receiver. Lacks a burst through the hole, and to run away from defenders. Not going to be a homerun threat at the next level, and has a lot of trouble getting through the first level unscathed. Slowed down by arm tackles often. His spin moves probably won't work in the NFL. He won't be able to jump over defenders in the NFL. Not hard to tackle once guys wrap him up.

haha! You have clearly never watched the guy play. One of his qualities is that it is so hard to bring him down after contact. He drives his legs very well, also to the poster who earlier said that "RB's are common busts".... wow.... RB is one of the safest positions to rate, and RB's offer the most immediate impact compared to every other position in their rookie seasons.

MUG has it very right when he says Moreno is a great RB prospect. I'd take him at #12 without hesitation if Raji is off the board.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Here's NFL.Com's bio on Moreno:

Overview
Possessing extraordinary lateral quickness and elusiveness that has drawn comparisons to Barry Sanders, Moreno teamed with quarterback Matthew Stafford for two years to give the Bulldogs the most feared tandem of skill position players in college football. An offensive machine, Moreno rushed for 2,734 yards and 30 touchdowns in two seasons after redshirting in 2006 in addition to catching 53 passes for 704 yards and two scores.

A YouTube.com sensation even before eye-popping leaps and jukes while with the Bulldogs, Moreno scored 128 touchdowns in his three-time state championship high school career, leaving New Jersey as the state's all-time leading scorer and second-leading rusher (6,268 yards). Had an arm span of 30 3/4 inches and a hand span of 10 inches at the combine.



Positives: Tight-skinned athlete with good overall musculature. Good quickness to the hole. Reads the defense and anticipates where the hole, including cutback lanes, will appear. Exceptional lateral quickness and elusiveness in tight quarters. Very rarely tackled by the first defender. Good acceleration past the initial wave of defense and into the secondary. Good spin and stiff arm, and has phenomenal leaping ability to jump over tacklers. Attacks the line of scrimmage and is a tougher interior runner than given credit for. Can drop his shoulders and has good leg drive. Runs through a lot of tackles due to his competitive drive and toughness. Keeps his legs churning and will spin away from tackles. Soft hands for the reception. Natural receiver who poses intriguing possibilities to be split out wide. Good quickness and effort as a route-runner; isn't just a threat on dump-offs in the flat or screens. Provides a pop in pass protection. Extreme competitor who can put the team on his shoulders. Wants the ball with the game on the line.


Negatives: Questionable top-end speed. Lacks the prototype size and bulk some teams are looking for in a bell-cow runner. A bit flashy, and will celebrate a bit too much after big plays.

That sounds really good to me, and also mirrors what Mayock is saying about him, except that Mayock gushes even more. He's an amazing and complete prospect. Hits the hole fast and hard, is tough to tackle, breaks alot of tackles...etc....

[Joshecalpoly]

#12 is a good slot, the money is not too out of whack, so that area still has value. I think the draft chart is solid still.

Thus, swap 1sts and they'd have to give up their 2nd rounder selection (#51).


I'd rather have Moreno then an extra 2nd rounder though. To me, there's him, and then there is every other RB in this draft. And I believe RB is one of our biggest needs.

From what I have seen most annalysts and scouts dont see him going i the top 20.

Does anyone else notice how Wells comes from a school that gave up 20 sacks and Morenos school gave up 17 neither had stellar lines and it doesnt seem that either prevented the sack much. If Moreno hadnt put on 10 lbs and ran .01 sec slower then Wells one time and .14 another. Ild say he was better then Wells but I am not sure.

I think Javon Ringer is more of an every down back and hes cheaper
Donald Brown had an amazing year and so did Shonn Green
Not to mention Tarrion Adams who needs to bulk up and was amazing despite being snubbed by scouts him at 7 is the best steal at RB and he has a good chance of being a star.

I am not convinced Antone Smith although low stats isnt the most athletic and RB in the draft

[Papa-pwn]

Hahaha

No way we trade Moreno until at least his 3rd season.

I don't see us trading him at all really.

Most likely a bronco for life

There is no RB in this draft class that is worthy to even be mentioned in the same breath as Moreno.



There are two kinds of RBs coming out this year;

Moreno

Everbody else

[Endzo]

Man, I will be very upset if we don't get the guy at 12. It's hard for me to get excited about any other player that would be available in the same spot.

Jackson is a reach at 12.
Maualuga is not a need and I don't think he's worth a top 25 spot.
No way Raji falls.
Sanchez won't be there and I don't even he is worth #12.
E. Brown is a Dumervil clone.
Maybin is a Moss clone.

I just don't see us picking anyone else. Runningback is a need, period.

[DancingHorsey]

As far as I can tell, it looks like Moreno will be our pick at 12. I just don't see any of the defensive players we might want being there, and a player like TYson Jackson isn't worth that high of a pick. We won't go with Rey because we have too much money in ILBs as it is. So right now I'm thinking, unless we trade up or down, we will be taking Moreno.

[Joshecalpoly]

we have 2 backs that average over 5 yards a carry 2 that average over 4. To say that we have a need at rb because we have injury prone players yet we are ok at ILB with Boss who is injury pone and Andra Davis who is not a real starter.

We run a RB rotation well here we dont need a back that can take 20 caries a game. We have are speed are power we we got some good cut backs in FA and we may need a blocker at 3rd down but I am not convinced Moreno is a 3rd down back.

We have 3 OLB and we dont know how are converted DE will be

We have no starting NT

I am not sure how good they are at DE because Peterson Thomas and Crowder havent proven they arent backups.

SS-Josh Barrett Woodyard and Jones may not be elites but I like them

FS-Dawkins Hill and Fox I think we are covered

CB- Goodman was good last year.

[Gbt31]

With as many defensive players we have aquired this past offseason and with some potential defensive players whom we have yet to see play in a 3-4, I am just really hoping we go offense skill position with one of our first rounders. Moreno, Sanchez, Wells....

[DancingHorsey]

we have 2 backs that average over 5 yards a carry 2 that average over 4. To say that we have a need at rb because we have injury prone players yet we are ok at ILB with Boss who is injury pone and Andra Davis who is not a real starter.

We run a RB rotation well here we dont need a back that can take 20 caries a game. We have are speed are power we we got some good cut backs in FA and we may need a blocker at 3rd down but I am not convinced Moreno is a 3rd down back.

We have 3 OLB and we dont know how are converted DE will be

We have no starting NT

I am not sure how good they are at DE because Peterson Thomas and Crowder havent proven they arent backups.

SS-Josh Barrett Woodyard and Jones may not be elites but I like them

FS-Dawkins Hill and Fox I think we are covered

CB- Goodman was good last year.

The thing is we're very unlikely to put big money into a 3-4 ILB when we already have DJ Williams, and the other positions likely won't have players of value available.

By the way, we don't have any good backs right now (with the possible exception of Hillis), we have an O-line that can make scrubs look decent. Moreno would destroy people behind our line.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

we have 2 backs that average over 5 yards a carry 2 that average over 4. To say that we have a need at rb because we have injury prone players yet we are ok at ILB with Boss who is injury pone and Andra Davis who is not a real starter.

We run a RB rotation well here we dont need a back that can take 20 caries a game. We have are speed are power we we got some good cut backs in FA and we may need a blocker at 3rd down but I am not convinced Moreno is a 3rd down back.

We have 3 OLB and we dont know how are converted DE will be

We have no starting NT

I am not sure how good they are at DE because Peterson Thomas and Crowder havent proven they arent backups.

SS-Josh Barrett Woodyard and Jones may not be elites but I like them

FS-Dawkins Hill and Fox I think we are covered

CB- Goodman was good last year.

Moreno is the ultimate 3rd down back. He's the best blocking RB in this draft easily. He also has hands like a Wide Receiver. The best part is that he's the ultimate 1st, 2nd, and 4th down RB as well. One AFC Personnel guy had this to say about Moreno today:

"He's Walter Payton," said one AFC personnel man who was scouting when "Sweetness" came out of Jackson State as the No. 4 pick in 1975. "He looks like Payton, his attitude is just like Payton's and he's got Payton's balance and leaping ability."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/43320792.html

Walter MF'ing Payton!!! Draft him puh-leeze Denver!



As for our RB situation:

I think I explained this in another thread to you, or perhaps, it was someone else.

Our current crop of RBs can't carry the load. Generally you can expect about 400-450 carries per season from your running game.

1. Buckhalter has never carried more then 61 times in a season, he's 31 now. That's not going to change.

2. Jordan carried 50 times last year and is best used as a backup.

3. Arrington has averaged 23 carries per year over the last 3 years. He's mainly a KR guy.

4. Torain couldn't stay healthy in college and he hasn't shaken the injury bug yet. He might not even make the team.

5. Selvin Young has a problem with his neck. He might be done.

6. Peyton Hillis is our Fullback, and while he might snatch a few short yardage carries, NE's fullbacks never got more then 25-50 carries a year.

So, out of our current RBs, I think they might be able to get 150-200 carries between them at best. That leaves another 200-250 carries for our lead RB. And remember, the team tried to sign Derrick Ward to a big contract AFTER we signed all the current RBs. We are looking for a starting RB. We need one desperately unless we want Kyle Orton throwing 35 times per game.


As for our LB situation:

You have DJ Williams, Andra Davis, Spencer Larson, Wesley Woodyard, and Mario Haggan inside.

You have Elvis Dumervil, Boss Bailey, Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, and Darrell Reid outside.


3-4 teams typically keep 8 LBs. That's 10 right there, not counting Louis Green. If we draft a LB, someone has to get cut. Probably 2-3 people. Who? We can't cut Boss because of his contract. Everyone else is safe except Haggan and Green. There's no room for a LB.

On top of that, at our Minicamp, Wesley Woodyard was playing ILB for DJ Williams and played well picking off Chris Simms. And when interviewed after practice, he said he was very impressed by Elvis and Tim's coverage drops. He said they looked like LBs doing it. That's damn encouraging.

Here's the quote and link:

With the transition to the 3-4 scheme, some players such as Elvis Dumervil, who has always rushed the passer and never had to backpedal, are adjusting to drastically different roles.

"It was kind of shocking at first to see him drop out of there, him and Tim Crowder ... They looked like linebackers," Wesley Woodyard said.

http://www.kansascity.com/491/story/1151101.html

[Joshecalpoly]

The thing is we're very unlikely to put big money into a 3-4 ILB when we already have DJ Williams, and the other positions likely won't have players of value available.

By the way, we don't have any good backs right now (with the possible exception of Hillis), we have an O-line that can make scrubs look decent. Moreno would destroy people behind our line.

Hes a show boat who they say likes to celebrate and has a high opinion of himself yes I understand those are his only negatives by scouts but he sounds to much like a RB we had to have in the 1st not to long ago. I guess we could always trade him for a Defensive player like we did Portis.

You have DJ Williams, Andra Davis, Spencer Larson, Wesley Woodyard, and Mario Haggan inside.

You have Elvis Dumervil, Boss Bailey, Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, and Darrell Reid outside.

Spencer Larsen: after last season there is a rumor they are considering moving him more and more to FB with Hillis getting more and more carries especially with how well he blocked last year

Wesley Woodyard: Considering that they are moving to a 3-4 we might see him move more to a back up SS especially since we only have 3 SS

Crowder: Still listed as a DE is not listed as making a swtich along with Moss and Dumervil the last time I checked and if he becomes a starting DE you can say he wont move

That is about 7-9 going into the draft. Ive seen 10 usually in a 3-4 system going out of pre-season 8 tend to play. We only have 3 listed OLB we need at least 2 more 1 to fill a position and one to add depth.