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BB's uneducated needs analysis -- week 2

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  • #16
    No chance they draft an OLB early. Dumervil is lighting it up, they extended Haggan, and they drafted Ayers. If Ayers develops properly, we could have one of the elite OLB tandems in the league with Ayers and Dumervil.

    I think ILB is a possibility early (as in 1st 2 rounds). DJ isn't untouchable under the new leadership and Andra Davis is not the long-term answer. Spikes or McClain would be hard to pass up in the late 1st, early 2nd.

    WR could happen. Marshall has been useless so far this season and Royal has not made much of an impact. But I suspect much of that is due to a QB and an offense much more comfortable with short passes. But given the uncertainty with Marshall I could see them taking a WR to replace him early.

    I doubt QB happens anytime early. I think QB is a big need but McD probably disagrees, he seems in love with Orton and if not, he probably thinks he can make Brandstater something special (maybe he can).

    NT looks fine. Baker made the team as a UDFA and Fields has been playing well. No need to spend a high pick here.

    DE could be improved, and is a good bet to be a position addressed somewhere in the offseason. Next year's draft looks like a good D-line draft.

    Our O-line is fine. No need at all to look at that early. Maybe a center, but good centers can easily be found later in the draft.

    Same with RB. I may have to eat crow about Knowshon but I still don't see him being all that great, though he showed promise against a bad Browns defense. Obviously RB will not be drafted early because of Knowshon.

    Ditto with the secondary.

    Here's how I'd rank the needs:

    1. DE
    2. ILB
    3. QB
    4. WR
    5. C
    Last edited by Max Power; 09-24-2009, 09:41 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Max Power View Post
      Here's how I'd rank the needs:

      1. DE
      2. ILB
      3. QB
      4. WR
      5. C
      Thanks for the input. With your ranking, is this in order you'd draft them, or in order that we really need someone at that position? The reason I ask is because in my opinion, if Weigmann retires this year, we have NO ONE to step in. We've got backups and stopgaps, but not a starting-caliber center. That's why I put it as need number 1a, with DE being need 1b.
      sigpic

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      • #18
        Originally posted by elevation INC View Post
        yes by the end of the season unless we miracolously extend him i belive a team would do a trade for first and third rd picks, as for big recivers, eric decker, brandon lafell, arelious benn all solid options.....marshall would no doubt be a loss, but we would stockpile picks some the patriot way is famous for.....and eric decker and brandon lafell should have solid rookie years, both have good hands, speed, and run great routes, and get sepration(the last 2 being main keys to pro success)


        interior OL is needed as bad next year as LT was needed when lepsis was done and we drafted CLADY......
        I know absolutely nothing about Lafell and Decker, and haven't been able to watch any college football yet, who do they play for?
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        • #19
          Originally posted by Broncos Bassist View Post
          Thanks for the input. With your ranking, is this in order you'd draft them, or in order that we really need someone at that position? The reason I ask is because in my opinion, if Weigmann retires this year, we have NO ONE to step in. We've got backups and stopgaps, but not a starting-caliber center. That's why I put it as need number 1a, with DE being need 1b.
          Both, when I typed that I was thinking more in terms of biggest needs, but I also would rather draft center later because that position is easier to find talent at in the later rounds. It depends on the players available, but I would go for a good wideout, linebacker, or defensive lineman before a center if the needs are equal or greater than.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Bowie Man View Post
            I know absolutely nothing about Lafell and Decker, and haven't been able to watch any college football yet, who do they play for?
            LaFell plays for LSU, Decker for Minnesota.

            Personally, I like the other starting wideout at LSU, the 6'5" junior Terrance Tolliver, more than LaFell.

            Another big and fast WR is Demaryius Thomas from Georgia Tech, I watched him against Miami and he looks like Brandon Marshall Jr. (as a football player).
            Last edited by Max Power; 09-24-2009, 12:36 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Bowie Man View Post
              I know absolutely nothing about Lafell and Decker, and haven't been able to watch any college football yet, who do they play for?
              LaFell is on LSU, Decker is on Minnesota. Both are taller, possession types with marginal speed. LaFell is considered a Top 50 talent, Decker probably more of a Top 75 guy. I think both land in the 2nd Round due to their speed (lack thereof).

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Endzo View Post
                Thanks for your intelligent response, but I highly doubt we take a QB next year with Kyle playing solid.

                I'm with mug on this one on pretty much every point but it's a bit early to tell how our OLBers will play out.

                Playing solid? He's not losing games. That is playing solid?
                :go: sigpic
                IF McD wins us a Superbowl, I'll THINK about not hating him, maybe.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Max Power View Post
                  No chance they draft an OLB early. Dumervil is lighting it up, they extended Haggan, and they drafted Ayers. If Ayers develops properly, we could have one of the elite OLB tandems in the league with Ayers and Dumervil.

                  Agree

                  I think ILB is a possibility early (as in 1st 2 rounds). DJ isn't untouchable under the new leadership and Andra Davis is not the long-term answer. Spikes or McClain would be hard to pass up in the late 1st, early 2nd.

                  I disagree here Dj signed a extension already and davis has been playing lights out for us so far. to me our starters seem untouchable for the next 2 years, they also really like larsen and the only reason he isnt playing is becasue he is hurt. they also really liked nick griesen who is on IR before he got hurt, couple that with woodyard playing solid as nickle backer and lee robinson on the PS and i doubt we take a ILB in the first 4 rds especially since we have legit options it certainly isnt a true need...


                  WR could happen. Marshall has been useless so far this season and Royal has not made much of an impact. But I suspect much of that is due to a QB and an offense much more comfortable with short passes. But given the uncertainty with Marshall I could see them taking a WR to replace him early.

                  WR is a option i have no doubt unless marshall becomes the next prince of denver he will be franchise tendered and traded in which case a big possesion guy will be a need...on a side note tolliver from LSU is a good prospect(good catch)

                  I doubt QB happens anytime early. I think QB is a big need but McD probably disagrees, he seems in love with Orton and if not, he probably thinks he can make Brandstater something special (maybe he can).

                  Agree

                  NT looks fine. Baker made the team as a UDFA and Fields has been playing well. No need to spend a high pick here.

                  Agree

                  DE could be improved, and is a good bet to be a position addressed somewhere in the offseason. Next year's draft looks like a good D-line draft.

                  this draft is filled with good talent the first 3 rds we should take advantage early

                  Our O-line is fine. No need at all to look at that early. Maybe a center, but good centers can easily be found later in the draft.

                  Our O-line is not fine our interior OL sucks and our back depth is non existent. Kuper and Olsen are solid, but hamilton and weigman will get there walking papers, they suck at run blocking and are getting demolished inside, they also cant man block for crap, and hochstein is weak and shouldnt be a starter.

                  Same with RB. I may have to eat crow about Knowshon but I still don't see him being all that great, though he showed promise against a bad Browns defense. Obviously RB will not be drafted early because of Knowshon.

                  agree

                  Ditto with the secondary.

                  Champ may walk or get released if he doesnt restructure, that emans goodman wuld fill his role and hopefully the phonz can take his spot but that means nickel corner is a huge need as JMFW has taken his oppurtuniteis and done anything. a CB is a need be it draft or FA

                  Here's how I'd rank the needs:

                  1. DE
                  2. ILB
                  3. QB
                  4. WR
                  5. C

                  good discussion points

                  my thoughts in bold
                  Last edited by elevation INC; 09-25-2009, 02:19 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by elevation INC View Post
                    good discussion points

                    my thoughts in bold
                    Agree with a lot of what you and Max Power said. I don't really think QB is a need, but I do agree that we won't likely take one early unless the perfect guy happens to drop further than expected. I really think they do the BPA thing on draft day, and will take the guy they have rated higher, even if that position isn't falling apart. I don't know what the threshold is for when they think the position is such a low priority that they won't draft even a highly rated guy who fell into their laps, but I'm sure one exists.

                    By the way, Lee Robinson is an Arizona Cardinal. We didn't sign him to the PS for some reason.

                    One thing I thought of regarding cornerbacks was that we signed two promising looking guys to the PS this year. One or both of them could develop into nickel-quality talent over the course of the season. We have Tony Carter and DJ Johnson (who had great college production, if I'm not mistaken, at somewhere like Jackson State). Carter is a former 'Nole, I think. Something to keep in mind while watching the draft process if we don't take one early. If the cupboard really is bare in this draft, then we might try to rely on one of those guys to step up.
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                    • #25
                      I agree with alot of the posts which want to go with a DL. It's a pretty good year for D linemen in the draft, and if a few Jrs come out it will be a great year for DLs. I could see drafting multiple linemen. As far as QBs go, just watching the football season so far, the big names keep playing themselves down the draft board. Snead looks awful, McCoy doesn't look as good as last year, and who knows how Bradford will look after injuring his throwing shoulder. We need to build up both the defensive and offensive lines.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Broncos Bassist View Post
                        Agree with a lot of what you and Max Power said. I don't really think QB is a need, but I do agree that we won't likely take one early unless the perfect guy happens to drop further than expected. I really think they do the BPA thing on draft day, and will take the guy they have rated higher, even if that position isn't falling apart. I don't know what the threshold is for when they think the position is such a low priority that they won't draft even a highly rated guy who fell into their laps, but I'm sure one exists.

                        By the way, Lee Robinson is an Arizona Cardinal. We didn't sign him to the PS for some reason.

                        One thing I thought of regarding cornerbacks was that we signed two promising looking guys to the PS this year. One or both of them could develop into nickel-quality talent over the course of the season. We have Tony Carter and DJ Johnson (who had great college production, if I'm not mistaken, at somewhere like Jackson State). Carter is a former 'Nole, I think. Something to keep in mind while watching the draft process if we don't take one early. If the cupboard really is bare in this draft, then we might try to rely on one of those guys to step up.

                        yeah braxton kelly is the guy i was thinking off.....as for carter and DJ I dont think they will provide much other than a 4th or 5th cb...we need a legit Cb that can start at the LCB or RCB if champ leaves or the minum...a nickel Cb

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Thors Hammer View Post
                          I agree with alot of the posts which want to go with a DL. It's a pretty good year for D linemen in the draft, and if a few Jrs come out it will be a great year for DLs. I could see drafting multiple linemen. As far as QBs go, just watching the football season so far, the big names keep playing themselves down the draft board. Snead looks awful, McCoy doesn't look as good as last year, and who knows how Bradford will look after injuring his throwing shoulder. We need to build up both the defensive and offensive lines.
                          In my opinion, Snead looks awful this year because he's getting bad coaching. It could ruin his career, if he doesn't watch out. But he does look awful.
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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by elevation INC View Post
                            yeah braxton kelly is the guy i was thinking off.....as for carter and DJ I dont think they will provide much other than a 4th or 5th cb...we need a legit Cb that can start at the LCB or RCB if champ leaves or the minum...a nickel Cb
                            -Carter might become a Nickle/Dime back one day if he makes the roster as a P/KR, but he'll never be a starting CB.
                            -Johnson should become a starting DB in the NFL, either as an outside CB or possibly an 'Ed Reed' type FS. Not sure how smart he is or if he's quick enough to stick with smaller receivers, but he has the size and speed to shut down the biggest, fastest WRs in the NFL, is great in run-support and very good in zone. A skill set very similar to Paymah (who was our 2nd-best CB last year), so we'll see how he pans out.

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                            • #29
                              The four most likely players I think we lose this offseason will be:

                              1. Champ - Just due to contract amount, not sure if he will pass up what may be his last big contract to restructure.

                              2. Hamilton - Makes too much vs production. I still like the guy, but I believe Olsen was drafted to replace him.

                              3. Scheffler - I doubt we sign him to a long term deal with Quinn waiting in the wings. He may get low tender as a RFA to try and keep him a year longer.

                              4. Marshall -We all know the story here, and I doubt we give him a big payday to stay.

                              For those wondering about the Tenders for RFA, here is my best guess on salary cost next year:

                              • $1,111,473 for the prior club to retain the right of first refusal (ROFR) without any draft choice compensation;
                              • $1,111,473 for ROFR or the club receives draft choice compensation equal to the draft round at which the player originally entered the league if they chose not to match an offer;
                              • $1,698,983 for ROFR or the club receives one second-round draft pick if the offer is not matched;
                              • $2,418,383 for ROFR or the club receives one first-round pick; or
                              • $3,071,838 for ROFR or the club receives one first round and one third-round pick.

                              The second amount of $1,111,473 is what it would cost to keep Scheffler a year, or we get a 2nd round pick. $3,071,838 is what we would need to Tender Marshall to get a 1st and 3rd.

                              I am not sure what Champ's market value would be, but if he plays the way he has been, I think late 1st is possible, with a 2nd and 5th more realistic.

                              Picks are great, but I would rather have all three guys on the team. However, if we parted with all three and received less than the above compensation, we would still have:

                              1st (Chicago pick)
                              1st (Marshall comp)
                              2nd (Champ trade)
                              2nd (Our pick)
                              3rd (Scheff comp)
                              3rd (our pick)

                              In other words, we may have a ton of picks next year.
                              Last edited by Cutler2007; 09-26-2009, 04:32 AM.

                              R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
                              J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
                              R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

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