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Marshall, Dumerville, Orton Can we sign them?

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  • #31
    I know some of you are gonna go all crazy on me for this, but I think you're better off not signing orton. I just think you're going to end up grossly overpaying a system QB when you could probably find someone to replace him at a much cheaper price.

    flame away

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    • #32
      Originally posted by premier-ace55 View Post
      Can we sign them all next year? Do we have the money? If there is a cap will we have the room? What are the ramifications? lets discuss

      We Have 35 Million

      http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/b...os_cap_no.html
      The Broncos have not only pared a dozen players off the roster in the last week but have unofficially added more than $25 million in salary-cap space in the process.

      The biggest savings was realized by Monday's release of defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson. He was supposed to count $16 million towards the 2009 spending limit but because he didn't reach pre-determined playing time levels of at least 75 percent of the snaps and wasn't on the roster on the third day of the NFL's league year, it all washed away without any dead money assessed to Denver.

      Of the six high-profile cuts released Monday, linebacker Niko Koutouvides' financial impact will be felt most, given the $1.3 million in prorated bonuses that will accelerate forward. However, that's still a savings over the $3.06 million he had been due this season.

      Tight end Nate Jackson ($982,500), safety Marquand Manuel ($1.3 million), linebacker Jamie Winborn ($1.75 million) and defensive end John Engelberger ($2.185 million) all had their salaries wiped off the books with only a combined $714,000 in dead money attached.

      At this moment, without bonuses previously earned factored into the equation, Denver stands with about $35 million in cap room under the projected $123 million threshold, a figure that may rise depending on any prior year 'credits' for bonuses not earned.

      Free agency opens Feb. 27. The vast amount of cap space won't be an issue; instead, Denver's ability to be aggressive on the open market will be tied to cash on hand it's willing to spend -- which remains an open question in these tight financial times.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Snarfalicious View Post
        I thought DJ's contract was restructured for some money relief in this year and next? I could be wrong, but I thought that was the driving force behind his restructure. Champ is highly paid, and he is proving to be worth it, but he might be asked to slightly restructure, and I think he might because he knows he could help this team more, and his Super Bowl chances, by restructuring. If he doesn't, I could see him being traded, perhaps to the Patriots who love their veteran players.

        Marshall is going to be expensive, Dumervil as well but to a lesser extent. Kuper and Hochstein won't be too costly, and Orton will get a moderate contract if he keeps his performance up. I see Hamilton and Scheff gone, but the others staying by way of contract extension or a franchise tag.
        You're right; they re-structured D.J.'s contract so that we wouldn't be hit so hard by the cap.
        Kenny McKinley: Eleven Forever.
        sigpic

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        • #34
          It's starting to look a little less likely that we will be able to keep Doom, Orton, Kuper, Marshall, and Scheffler. The reason being is that all those guys, except for Scheffler and maybe not Kuper, will make the Pro-Bowl. I would say that Marshall and Doom are locks. Orton is the wild card, he might be overlooked because of the other elite QB's/perpetual Pro-Bowlers in the AFC (Manning, Brady, Rivers?). In all honesty, it'd be best if Orton didn't make the Pro-Bowl for the future potential of us signing all our impact FA's. Another thing that might work against us, is that a lot of people want Bailey to restructure, and with him having a Pro-Bowl year, I doubt he would want to take a pay cut, as he is proving his worth as a true shut down corner.

          The good thing about it happening this year, is that every one of our FA's are eligible to be RFA's, so as long as we offer the RFA tender (I believe it's 110% escalator) a team will have to offer us a 1st and 3rd for the player (which we would probably put on Doom, Marshall, and Orton) giving us time until we officially extend their contract. Scheffler and Kuper should come cheap, so we have that going for us, and Ben Hamilton most likely will be let go to be replaced by Olsen/Hochstein/Possible Draft Pick, saving up some more room. I thought possibly another casualty could be Daniel Graham. I highly doubt it though, since he has proven his worth as a leader, blocker, and even a receiver, and although the future may be Quinn at TE, I just don't see him to be ready enough.

          That being said, I'm not even sure Orton will require the league average for a QB deal. For some reason (maybe it's because he looks Amish), he seems to be very content here, and I think money might be a close second to him liking where he's at and Mcdaniels, so possibly he will come at a cheaper price.
          sigpic

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          • #35
            Originally posted by licence_to_kill View Post
            I know some of you are gonna go all crazy on me for this, but I think you're better off not signing orton. I just think you're going to end up grossly overpaying a system QB when you could probably find someone to replace him at a much cheaper price.

            flame away
            Replace him with who? He seems very good at not throwing into coverage. He's a big reason we're 6-0 as well, it's not all defense.

            What's so wrong with a System QB anyway? He seems to do just fine with our offense, he rarely throws a INT. He's sitting at a QB rating for the season at over 100. He's like 26 too, he's pretty young and it looks like with McD he is really growing.

            Anyone talking about getting rid of Orton is a moron. The man is a winner.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Artamentous View Post
              What's so wrong with a System QB anyway? He seems to do just fine with our offense, he rarely throws a INT. He's sitting at a QB rating for the season at over 100. He's like 26 too, he's pretty young and it looks like with McD he is really growing.
              Nothings wrong with a system QB, but why would you pay franchise money to one?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Artamentous View Post
                Replace him with who? He seems very good at not throwing into coverage. He's a big reason we're 6-0 as well, it's not all defense.

                What's so wrong with a System QB anyway? He seems to do just fine with our offense, he rarely throws a INT. He's sitting at a QB rating for the season at over 100. He's like 26 too, he's pretty young and it looks like with McD he is really growing.

                Anyone talking about getting rid of Orton is a moron. The man is a winner.
                Well I think people calling him a system QB are clueless . The system is not creating his numbers . All you need to do is check his numbers from the first 6-7 weeks of last year to see that he was producing similar numbers. Its not the system that creating Orton is his improved efficiency is coming from the fabulous O-line and better weapons .
                "(Touchdowns) are the goal," Orton said. "You can run for as many yards as you want, throw for as many yards as you want, but you have to convert to seven points. I think we're going to be explosive, be dynamic, be versatile."

                "Perception is everything in this league, and a lot of times, unless you're a self-promoter, it can become negative," - Kyle Orton

                Kyle Orton Army member #83 :logo: :smug:

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                • #38
                  I don't see Orton getting paid franchise money. I'm guessing we'll give him 6-7 mill a year over however many years the contract lasts.

                  Don't forget about Kuper and Champ, we have to resign them as well.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by KO8pectate View Post
                    Well I think people calling him a system QB are clueless . The system is not creating his numbers . All you need to do is check his numbers from the first 6-7 weeks of last year to see that he was producing similar numbers. Its not the system that creating Orton is his improved efficiency is coming from the fabulous O-line and better weapons .
                    He stands behind a great OL with literally 10 seconds to throw to short routes.

                    Thats the very definition of a system QB. I've got nothing against orton, but anybody can do that.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by MindField View Post
                      Actually, the salary cap is basically irrelevant to most teams now, including the Broncos, as it has grown exponentially over the last three or four years.

                      I hear Pat Kirwin talk about it every day on NFL Sirius radio; the game and the finances have changed. Teams can make deals, re-sign the players they want to, and the cap grows by anywhere from $8-12 million per year.

                      The Broncos problem is liquid cash in the form of bonuses, etc, which is why they are always needing to structure deals, etc, because they don't have as much cash as some teams, but they can budget it out and still sign and re-sign players.


                      Remember the cuts that used to happen every offseason after June 1?

                      They have virtually gone away.

                      That's a long way away from the $450,000 the cap grew in some years.

                      The offseason game has changed. Yes, you will get the occasional huge name signing like Haynesworth did, but 95% of the time the team regrets signing players like that.


                      Free Agency is much more about what the Broncos did in bringing in FA's that fit a plan....who thought Ronald Fields, or Darrell Reid, or Aundra Davis would do what they have here?

                      But they fit McD's vision of what he wanted in his defensive players.

                      B Dawk? Goodman? Renaldo Hill? Vonnie Holliday??

                      Dawkins is a name, but everyone thought he was over the hill, and most of the pundits glossed over the signings of these players as irrelevant.

                      The thing is, when a fotball team truly plays as a team, and believes in the message, and believes in each other, that is a dangerous football team, and the Broncos have all of those qualities.
                      topping this so people can read this and stop using signing these guys and a 1st rounder as excuses to project magical trade downs

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                      • #41
                        We will resign Dumervil, Marshall, Sheffler, and Kuper. And we Franchise Orton.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by BRADFORD'10 View Post
                          We will resign Dumervil, Marshall, Sheffler, and Kuper. And we Franchise Orton.
                          franchise? considering the salaries of the leagues top QB's then aren't we looking at like 15 million dollars or so?
                          disclaimer: if the above post appears to contain outrageously illogical content, ITS PROBABLY SARCASM

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by getlynched47 View Post
                            We're screwed.

                            We have way too many good players set for free agency if the CBA is in place

                            Add Kuper to the list. He's just as important as Marshall and Dumervil.

                            I hope Orton and his agent don't act like a##-hats and demand a huge contract for the guy, but if he continues to play well and stays here in Denver for a reasonable contract...do it.

                            Hamilton is gone after the season, but we can replace him. So is Hochstein.

                            Tony Scheffler is going to be a free agent also. It sucks that we'll lose a lot of players
                            orton being an a##-hat?? he gets less money than simms.. there are tons of back ups gettin paid more than an NFL starting QB.
                            :orton::go:

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                            • #44
                              I was so right.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by licence_to_kill View Post
                                Nothings wrong with a system QB, but why would you pay franchise money to one?
                                Who says we have to do that?

                                With the lack of a CBA, ALL Free Agents are restricted.

                                I think that is going to allow us to sign Orton, along with Scheffler and RG Chris Kuper for next season on one year deals, when normally, they would be gone.

                                I think Orton wants to be in Denver, and McD can't just let him walk with Chris Simms (who I have to believe will be released) or an untested/unproven Tom Brandstater as the alternative.

                                Even if they draft a QB, McD won't want to start a rookie.

                                The big contracts and the big money this offseason will go to Brandon Marshall and Elvis Dumervil, and Orton will probably get a one year deal to prove himself next season before the Broncos commit long term.

                                There is reason to believe Kyle Orton will be even better next season with a full offseason to master the offense, and to bond with Marshall, Royal and Scheffler to even a larger degree.

                                Orton can frustrate you with his limitations, but all things considered, his performance this season has been above expectations.

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