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Don't FORGET about MYRON ROLLE (great NYT article)

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  • #16
    taylor mays 2008 stats

    13 games...53 total tackles, 2 for loss, 9 PD

    Myron rolles 2008 stats

    13 games....62 total tackles, 1 for loss, 10 PD





    Taylor mays 2009 stats

    6 games....49 tackles, 1 INT, 1 PD

    now he is on pace for a better year statiscally in tackles and ints, but without the great defense of 2008 he is being exposed when forced to play that FS role, he has many missed tackles, has overpursued and taken bad angles, has also given up big plays to notre dame, and oregon state and looked like trash against washington......


    im sorry but even with the extra year the only thing mays has going for him is that he is tall and runs fast....his fundementals are for crap.....and as more tape is being watched this is being notcied by many more scouts. dont be suprised to see him get abused more and start sliding to the lower half of rd and even rd 2 by seasons end......



    now put on rolles tape and you see that his fundemnetlas and instincts are better and his production the same, but he gives up less big plays.....the only differnece with him is he doesnt gop for highlight reel hits he just makes the tackle.....



    im telling you mays isnt all he is cracked up to be......Eric berry is the only legit top 25 pick at safety but dont be suprised to see rolle slide in there around pick 22 before mays gets picked......his character, football smarts and his athletic ability set him above mays....his knock is will he have the passion for football......my guess is yes since he works out everyday to prepare for the SB even while study to be a rhodes scholar

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    • #17
      Originally posted by elevation INC View Post
      taylor mays 2008 stats

      13 games...53 total tackles, 2 for loss, 9 PD

      Myron rolles 2008 stats

      13 games....62 total tackles, 1 for loss, 10 PD





      Taylor mays 2009 stats

      6 games....49 tackles, 1 INT, 1 PD

      now he is on pace for a better year statiscally in tackles and ints, but without the great defense of 2008 he is being exposed when forced to play that FS role, he has many missed tackles, has overpursued and taken bad angles, has also given up big plays to notre dame, and oregon state and looked like trash against washington......


      im sorry but even with the extra year the only thing mays has going for him is that he is tall and runs fast....his fundementals are for crap.....and as more tape is being watched this is being notcied by many more scouts. dont be suprised to see him get abused more and start sliding to the lower half of rd and even rd 2 by seasons end......



      now put on rolles tape and you see that his fundemnetlas and instincts are better and his production the same, but he gives up less big plays.....the only differnece with him is he doesnt gop for highlight reel hits he just makes the tackle.....



      im telling you mays isnt all he is cracked up to be......Eric berry is the only legit top 25 pick at safety but dont be suprised to see rolle slide in there around pick 22 before mays gets picked......his character, football smarts and his athletic ability set him above mays....his knock is will he have the passion for football......my guess is yes since he works out everyday to prepare for the SB even while study to be a rhodes scholar
      Whatever. Mays will be a much better Pro, and I will make a little side wager with you that Rolle does not go before the third round, if that.

      I would love to see the Broncos get a great young safety to groom under b Dawk, but unless Mays, as you say, drops down to the late teens, he is irrelevant to the Broncos. Berry will be long gone.

      But give me Mays at say 18 or 19 from the Bears pick, and I would be very happy with that selection.

      I hope Rolle goes to the combine so Mays can roast his ass in the athletic skills tests. Head to head, Rolle won't be in the same universe as Mays, athletically, and as you indicated with your stats comparison, the production is about the same.

      You are overly critical of Mays. I don't watch alot of USC games, but when I do, I see a good player. I also think he would be great in Denver with the coaching he would receive here.

      But you are entitled to your opinion, and I don't have a strong feeling either way about Mays, as I just assumed he would be a top ten pick.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by MindField View Post
        Whatever. Mays will be a much better Pro, and I will make a little side wager with you that Rolle does not go before the third round, if that.

        I would love to see the Broncos get a great young safety to groom under b Dawk, but unless Mays, as you say, drops down to the late teens, he is irrelevant to the Broncos. Berry will be long gone.

        But give me Mays at say 18 or 19 from the Bears pick, and I would be very happy with that selection.

        I hope Rolle goes to the combine so Mays can roast his ass in the athletic skills tests. Head to head, Rolle won't be in the same universe as Mays, athletically, and as you indicated with your stats comparison, the production is about the same.

        You are overly critical of Mays. I don't watch alot of USC games, but when I do, I see a good player. I also think he would be great in Denver with the coaching he would receive here.

        But you are entitled to your opinion, and I don't have a strong feeling either way about Mays, as I just assumed he would be a top ten pick.
        I'm kind of torn on Mays.

        It's hard not to like the physical attributes. He also is reputed to be a good centerfielder. If that's the case it's not something the camera is going to catch a lot of. Specifically, last year someone asked Pete Carrol why Mays doesn't make more plays. Carrol's response was "He does what we ask him to do. When was the last time you say someone throw deep down the center of the field on us?" Preventing deep throws because of good coverage is just not something a camera is going to catch.


        What I don't like is what I have seen the camera catch. I watch USC 3 or 4 times a year, and Mays is good for one highlite hit per game, but he also gets caught several times per game taking the wrong angle and ends up completely removed from the play.

        I think there's a good chance we may not know what he's really capable of until he's in the NFL. Right now I think a lot of teams are afraid to throw down the field against Mays, but when he's in the league he will be tested every Sunday.

        I think he's good, but I would be willing to give up quite a bit to get Eric Berry. I think Eric Berry is going to be the next great safety in this league. He has excellent coverage skills and plays very well in the box. When you have a player with great instincts and strong drive and combine that with 4.3 speed you've got something very special.
        sigpic
        Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

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        • #19
          I bumped into Myron the other day actually. We were running some routes in the Uni parks, and he wandered up to us and had a little chat. He's a really nice guy to boot. His brother's currently helping out with our football team too, which is pretty cool...it's be nice if Myron could help us out a little more but he's a pretty busy chappy these days.
          sigpic

          Elvon Millervil eat grues for breakfast.

          Pey-Pey to Bey-Bey for the Tey-Dey.

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          • #20
            If the Bears give us a pick in the 10-12 range and Eric Berry slips a little bit, I hope we pounce on him. Sure we drafted 2 capable safeties last year, but neither of them are going to be the player Eric Berry will be. 5 years from now he'll be doing what Ed Reed is doing to the NFL. That would be great to have a bonafide talent at Safety waiting to replace dawkins when he is ready to bow out. Not to mention learning from him and getting mentored by him.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by LightningRodBob View Post
              If the Bears give us a pick in the 10-12 range and Eric Berry slips a little bit, I hope we pounce on him. Sure we drafted 2 capable safeties last year, but neither of them are going to be the player Eric Berry will be. 5 years from now he'll be doing what Ed Reed is doing to the NFL. That would be great to have a bonafide talent at Safety waiting to replace dawkins when he is ready to bow out. Not to mention learning from him and getting mentored by him.
              This might be true, but if he is out of range for the Broncos, he will be playing somewhere else, so personally, I could care less about how good he will or won't be; he won't be a Bronco.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by MindField View Post
                This might be true, but if he is out of range for the Broncos, he will be playing somewhere else, so personally, I could care less about how good he will or won't be; he won't be a Bronco.
                You're saying this as if its fact? We don't know what draft pick we'll be getting from the bears, and we don't know how high he'll get drafted. This is an incredibly deep class and he might slip down the board depending on the needs of the have-nots at the front of the draft. Last year the best RB in the draft slipped to us at 12, and top quality RB's are generally at a higher premium than a top safety. There's tons of defensive lineman and linebackers that will be going high this year. I could see Berry slipping into the 10-15 range.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by MindField View Post
                  Whatever. Mays will be a much better Pro, and I will make a little side wager with you that Rolle does not go before the third round, if that.

                  I would love to see the Broncos get a great young safety to groom under b Dawk, but unless Mays, as you say, drops down to the late teens, he is irrelevant to the Broncos. Berry will be long gone.

                  But give me Mays at say 18 or 19 from the Bears pick, and I would be very happy with that selection.

                  I hope Rolle goes to the combine so Mays can roast his ass in the athletic skills tests. Head to head, Rolle won't be in the same universe as Mays, athletically, and as you indicated with your stats comparison, the production is about the same.

                  yes because we all know that means he will better in the pros mindfield whats funny is mays probally will tear up the combine and go to al davis radiers becasue of his 40 time, but as we have see lately, smarts, insticts, fundementals can easily trump a 40 time and bench press when that player lacks fundementals skills like tackling at the safety position....

                  You are overly critical of Mays. I don't watch alot of USC games, but when I do, I see a good player. I also think he would be great in Denver with the coaching he would receive here.

                  But you are entitled to your opinion, and I don't have a strong feeling either way about Mays, as I just assumed he would be a top ten pick.


                  im over critical much of the way you were about william moore last year for the same reasons you were regarding moore, so-so production, lacksadasical play, bad tackling, poor fundementals......

                  but i will concede mays does seem coachable and a staff like ours could make him solid, but when evaluating the safety class. its clear berry is ed reed and taylor mays is roy williams.....im sorry but right now May's play the last 2 years just isnt online with a first rd pick(much like william moore).....height-weight ratio regardless....

                  but i also will regress that rolle being out of football for a year could easily kill him, however im banking my assumptions on the fact i think he will have a great offseason pre-draft and climb high once again.


                  but off the mays and rolle topic since we are beating each other around a circle......


                  outside of berry i dont see any possible louis delmas/sherrod martin or Sean smith risers right now....do you????
                  Last edited by elevation INC; 10-29-2009, 02:12 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
                    I'm kind of torn on Mays.

                    It's hard not to like the physical attributes. He also is reputed to be a good centerfielder. If that's the case it's not something the camera is going to catch a lot of. Specifically, last year someone asked Pete Carrol why Mays doesn't make more plays. Carrol's response was "He does what we ask him to do. When was the last time you say someone throw deep down the center of the field on us?" Preventing deep throws because of good coverage is just not something a camera is going to catch.


                    What I don't like is what I have seen the camera catch. I watch USC 3 or 4 times a year, and Mays is good for one highlite hit per game, but he also gets caught several times per game taking the wrong angle and ends up completely removed from the play.


                    I think there's a good chance we may not know what he's really capable of until he's in the NFL. Right now I think a lot of teams are afraid to throw down the field against Mays, but when he's in the league he will be tested every Sunday.

                    I think he's good, but I would be willing to give up quite a bit to get Eric Berry. I think Eric Berry is going to be the next great safety in this league. He has excellent coverage skills and plays very well in the box. When you have a player with great instincts and strong drive and combine that with 4.3 speed you've got something very special.

                    good points in bold and its what has been botehring me the most, especially after the M&M tackling fiasco we had before dawkins and hill got here. no way mays will be a bronco, but its his lack of tackling ability and fudemnetals that i think makes him drop, when his tape becomes even more viewed at the end of the year.....

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                    • #25
                      http://www.walterfootball.com/mattblog091026.php

                      now walterfootball isnt a great site but matt mguire is a good draft analyst who goes to the combine and senior bowl every year and even gets many player interviews and other stuff as well.....he was quite a fan of mays last year but it doesnt seem the case anymore....

                      By Matt Mguire

                      The Trojan Torpedo

                      You have to love height, weight and 40 times if you are a draftnik or draft analyst. Big players who are fast are usually good. Looking at these numbers doesn't take any effort.

                      I think size and speed are important; don't get me wrong. But there is so much to football other than size and speed…such as making plays.

                      Now, there are some players that make plays in college that don't have the size and speed to make the same plays at the next level. And sometimes there are players who have great size and speed that simply lack the intangibles to make plays at the next level.

                      Remember Vernon Gholston? The freak of nature who ran a sub 4.7? Yeah, that same No. 6 overall pick who has been a complete bust and isn't looking like he will ever pan out as the elite pass rusher everyone thought he was.

                      Gholston has big muscles and great straight-line speed, but he has no instincts and simply lacks game intangibles to make plays.

                      Taylor Mays reminds me of Gholston. He is a pretty one-dimensional player, and watching the tape of USC-Notre Dame put me over the edge.

                      Mays has had his question marks for a couple years. One, he takes poor angles to the football. I see this multiple times in run support and pass coverage in the games I have taped and reviewed this season. Secondly, he has zero ball skills. He doesn't locate the football to make a play on the ball and he doesn't intercept the ball. Third, he gets out of control. Fourth, he has no tackling technique. Fifth, like Gholston, he has no instincts.

                      Mays isn't going to miraculously get better mid-season and he hasn't improved these weaknesses (instincts are brain-eye coordination; you can't improve instincts because they are genetic) over the last two seasons.

                      To illustrate what I am saying, let's analyze some YouTube videos.

                      Go to 0:45. Mays takes a horrendous angle to the receiver and gives up a big touchdown. I see this also in run support where he just somehow has no clue where to really be. He gets out of position and this will cost him at the next level.

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI26D...eature=related

                      In the Notre Dame game, I was really frustrated with his tape. His tackling technique is pathetic. He'll throw his body around. Mays thinks football is all about big hits. He doesn't use his arms or hands to wrap up, and this will cost him in the NFL.

                      Next, go to 4:21. I found this on tape and I was just disgusted. A real first-round talent makes this play, and this has been a big knock on Mays for a couple years: He doesn't make enough plays. Eric Berry breaks this pass up or just flat out picks it off. What Mays did here is just go for the receiver, lower his shoulder, and try to hit the receiver really hard with his body.

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9wfwpr2SEI

                      He didn't even try to locate the football. He didn't try to go for the interception. He didn't get his hands up. You can simply tell by watching this play Mays' only focus was hitting the receiver.

                      For this highly repetitive flaw in his game, I have given him the nickname "The Trojan Torpedo." He hits like a human torpedo. Sure he'll get some big hits, but football is about much more than big hits.

                      The touchdown you saw in the video against Notre Dame that Mays gave up was a big one. Instead of the game being 21-7, it became 21-14 - all because Mays didn't make a play at an OPPORTUNE moment. If Mays can't break up a pass when he is right next to the receiver when the receiver begins to catch the ball, then it will never happen.

                      I wouldn't draft Mays in the top 40 picks. He's a highly overrated prospect right now. He reminds me of Roy Williams (safety, Bengals). Williams is an average starter, but the Cowboys let him go for a reason.

                      Mays won't be able to cover anyone in the NFL, and I don't think he could even transition to learn to cover at weakside linebacker either. Outside of closing in fast and making big hits, he isn't an impressive prospect. His instincts are poor and his angles are really bad to the ball.

                      It's your choice. You can fall in love with height, weight, and speed just like EVERYONE else. Or, you can start evaluating the game. Mays is a great athlete, but he will be just an average pro. He might even (gasp) bust just like Vernon Gholston.

                      Whenever you start thinking about Mays, just think about Gholston. I whiffed on Gholston just like everyone else. However, the difference between me and everyone else is I learn from my mistakes, and I am not making a mistake on the Trojan Torpedo.





                      maybe people are starting to catch on to what lies ahead for mays....mays to me relied on reputation as a good centerfielder to build his hype, but now his tape is being anaylzed by scouts and the prognosis is not great

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by LightningRodBob View Post
                        You're saying this as if its fact? We don't know what draft pick we'll be getting from the bears, and we don't know how high he'll get drafted. This is an incredibly deep class and he might slip down the board depending on the needs of the have-nots at the front of the draft. Last year the best RB in the draft slipped to us at 12, and top quality RB's are generally at a higher premium than a top safety. There's tons of defensive lineman and linebackers that will be going high this year. I could see Berry slipping into the 10-15 range.
                        hes pretty much a top 5 lock . . . . sorry

                        and if the last few years have taught us all anything its that great safeties are hard to find and once you get one they can change the entire D

                        just like sanders in indy
                        troy in pitt
                        reed in balt
                        and obviously dawkins here completely redid this D
                        sigpic
                        -------

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Gideon333 View Post
                          But McDaniels prefers players who "Live and Breathe Football" and I don't think this guy does. He might well be a gifted player, but might not have the "Passion" needed to succeed in McDaniels eyes.
                          Are you kidding me, he does not live and breathe football. He loves football but got a chance to do something to better his life after football. You can't tell me that if you got a free ride to Oxford, you wouldn't take it up. He plays football with his head, and also has the physical tools to be very good at it.

                          Rolle is training himself up for the Draft, that alone tells you that he loves football and is willing to work hard to keep playing. His passion may be to save lives, but his love of football is undeniable.

                          Originally posted by SBboundBRONCOS View Post
                          hes pretty much a top 5 lock . . . . sorry

                          and if the last few years have taught us all anything its that great safeties are hard to find and once you get one they can change the entire D

                          just like sanders in indy
                          troy in pitt
                          reed in balt
                          and obviously dawkins here completely redid this D
                          To add to that, he was the Eagles D.

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                          • #28
                            well chalk up mays for another poor performance agianst oregon...guess maybe rolle does have a increasing chance to be a rising safety...perhaps first rd......dont be suprised to see mays keep dropping.....his only rise will come at combine time when he runs fast, jumps high, and benches alot....most smart teams and scouts know to avoid players who can just do that though

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