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My complete Mock Draft, Cuts, Re-signings, FA and UFA
Matt Roth was a stud for Cleveland while he was there playing Doom's spot, ROLB, 6 games 4 sacks and Browns D was that much better. Unless Holmgren decides to change the D then expect the Browns to resign Roth in a heart beat.
I just wanted to comment on that. Kudos to you for identifying Roth though. :salute!:
McBean was very solid at holding the edge this season against the run. I couldn't care less if he is a pass rush threat, most 3-4 DE's aren't good pass rushers anyway, that is what the OLB's are for.
I don't know what you were watching, but when LeKevin Smith had to play due to injury, the run defense clearly suffered. He had his opportunity to beat McBean out and did not come close. He was healthy enough to start those couple of games, but could not get the job done.
LeKevin Smith will be lucky to make the team next season, and it makes me sick to think we gave up a fifth round pick for him, although considering the fact that Rulon Davis showed nothing and Pedescleaux clearly wasn't ready, I guess they had to do something....but right now, I would rather have the 5th rounder back.
McBean was drafted in the 4th round by the Steelers, a 3-4 team, so cleqarly they thought he fot the profile of what they wanted in a 3-4 DE. He was injured early in training camp of his rookie year, which set him back significantly, which is much more the reason for his slow start than anything else.
So he played essentially as a rookie this year, so it is extremely short sighted to think he can't get better than what he already is.
The comparison I use for McBean goes back to the old Orange Crush days...he reminds me of Barney Chavous...who was another lunch pale type that was not a pass rush threat.
There is a reason the coaches designated him as the starting DE over players like Marcus Thomas in the OTA's, and why he held off players like Smith and Holliday all season long. If he was as average as you say, he simply would have been beaten out at some point, which of course, did not happen.
He is also cheap, contract wise, and I don't think you can ever discount starters on a defense that showed as much improvement as Denver's did.
You think that happened without signifiant contributions from McBean and Peterson??
That is almost impossible, really.
Now, I am not saying they should be locked up long term or anyting like that, but for now, there is just no reason to release players that have played as well as they did, especially when there is not currently a player on the roster that can beat either of them out.
Even if the Broncos get your boy Odrick, he is not going to come into the league and set it on fire. He is a two to three year project, as most D-linemen are.
There is much more to D-line play than just sacks, especially in the 3-4.
If we eventually draft and develop players that are better than them, or sign a free agent or two that beat them out, fine, but those players are not on the roster right now, and I seriously doubt you are going to get better play from rookies.
We shall have to see how it works out. I don't think I'm wrong on this. I think they both suck. Big time. We had possibly the best secondary in the NFL and we had two ILBs playing at a high level behind a solid NT. We also had the NFL's sack leader. I don't give much credit, if any, to McBean, Peterson, or Haggan for our defensive success. And I lump most of the breakdown in rush defense firmly on them not dominating the line. Hey, LeKevin Smith and Marcus Thomas both sucked this year too. Smith has an excuse, he hurt his knee and tried to play through it all season. The rest of the guys just aren't good enough.
In a two gap system, it's ok for your DE to be a one-dimensional "edge setter" as you put it. In our system, it is not. A premium is placed on 3-4 DE penetration. We must have well rounded DEs that collapse the pocket and worry opposing offenses. McBean and Peterson were completely outplayed by Vonnie Holliday, it wasn't even close. He was better against the run. He was better at getting to the QB. He just was limited because he's so old in how many snaps he can give a game. We need to find two Vonnie Holliday type talents to start for us. Jared Odrick is one. Arthur Jones is one. Tyson Alualu is one. And I am very intrigued by Jarvis Jenkins.
You might be right that it will take a year or two before the rookies can contribute significantly. We might be forced to keep Peterson and McBean in starting roles another year. However, we need to start that process as soon as possible so we can get those guys into reserve roles or off our roster.
We shall have to see how it works out. I don't think I'm wrong on this. I think they both suck. Big time. We had possibly the best secondary in the NFL and we had two ILBs playing at a high level behind a solid NT. We also had the NFL's sack leader. I don't give much credit, if any, to McBean, Peterson, or Haggan for our defensive success. And I lump most of the breakdown in rush defense firmly on them not dominating the line. Hey, LeKevin Smith and Marcus Thomas both sucked this year too. Smith has an excuse, he hurt his knee and tried to play through it all season. The rest of the guys just aren't good enough.
In a two gap system, it's ok for your DE to be a one-dimensional "edge setter" as you put it. In our system, it is not. A premium is placed on 3-4 DE penetration. We must have well rounded DEs that collapse the pocket and worry opposing offenses. McBean and Peterson were completely outplayed by Vonnie Holliday, it wasn't even close. He was better against the run. He was better at getting to the QB. He just was limited because he's so old in how many snaps he can give a game. We need to find two Vonnie Holliday type talents to start for us. Jared Odrick is one. Arthur Jones is one. Tyson Alualu is one. And I am very intrigued by Jarvis Jenkins.
You might be right that it will take a year or two before the rookies can contribute significantly. We might be forced to keep Peterson and McBean in starting roles another year. However, we need to start that process as soon as possible so we can get those guys into reserve roles or off our roster.
It's pretty evident that the D-line is the weakest link in our defense. I was fairly vocal about it after the game, to my wife's dismay.....
We have 3 guys who were not starters prior to this year, and one that was a practice squad player last year. I believe McBean actually graded out higher than the other two on the season, so in that reguard Mindfield has a point. All of them finished with a negative grade, and Peterson's grade was simply putrid. I've been flaming him for weeks now.
MuG is right about Holliday. He was the only D-lineman with a positive grade.
I would like to see McBean playing again next year. I think he will continue to develop. He hasn't been playing football that long.
However, if Peterson is used in anything more than spot duty next year I will be sorely disappointed. If I was an offensive coordinator my simple game plan would be to run the ball wherever Peterson lines up......
I think at the very least, if we have the weakest link on the defensive line upgraded by the addition of a playmaker, it will go a long way to improving our defense.
Here's to hoping Baker turns into the playmaker we all think he can be.
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Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!
McBean and Peterson are probably the 2 biggest weak links on the D (espeically Peterson) and I don't see why you would keep them even in reserve roles.
If we already have Holliday, Thomas, Smith and Pedescleaux along with, say, 2 or 3 combined from the draft and FA why even keep them.
I'm also interested to see if Ayers can take Haggans job next year.
McBean was very solid at holding the edge this season against the run. I couldn't care less if he is a pass rush threat, most 3-4 DE's aren't good pass rushers anyway, that is what the OLB's are for.
I don't know what you were watching, but when LeKevin Smith had to play due to injury, the run defense clearly suffered. He had his opportunity to beat McBean out and did not come close. He was healthy enough to start those couple of games, but could not get the job done.
LeKevin Smith will be lucky to make the team next season, and it makes me sick to think we gave up a fifth round pick for him, although considering the fact that Rulon Davis showed nothing and Pedescleaux clearly wasn't ready, I guess they had to do something....but right now, I would rather have the 5th rounder back.
McBean was drafted in the 4th round by the Steelers, a 3-4 team, so cleqarly they thought he fot the profile of what they wanted in a 3-4 DE. He was injured early in training camp of his rookie year, which set him back significantly, which is much more the reason for his slow start than anything else.
So he played essentially as a rookie this year, so it is extremely short sighted to think he can't get better than what he already is.
The comparison I use for McBean goes back to the old Orange Crush days...he reminds me of Barney Chavous...who was another lunch pale type that was not a pass rush threat.
There is a reason the coaches designated him as the starting DE over players like Marcus Thomas in the OTA's, and why he held off players like Smith and Holliday all season long. If he was as average as you say, he simply would have been beaten out at some point, which of course, did not happen.
He is also cheap, contract wise, and I don't think you can ever discount starters on a defense that showed as much improvement as Denver's did.
You think that happened without signifiant contributions from McBean and Peterson??
That is almost impossible, really.
Now, I am not saying they should be locked up long term or anyting like that, but for now, there is just no reason to release players that have played as well as they did, especially when there is not currently a player on the roster that can beat either of them out.
Even if the Broncos get your boy Odrick, he is not going to come into the league and set it on fire. He is a two to three year project, as most D-linemen are.
There is much more to D-line play than just sacks, especially in the 3-4.
If we eventually draft and develop players that are better than them, or sign a free agent or two that beat them out, fine, but those players are not on the roster right now, and I seriously doubt you are going to get better play from rookies.
We shall have to see how it works out. I don't think I'm wrong on this. I think they both suck. Big time. We had possibly the best secondary in the NFL and we had two ILBs playing at a high level behind a solid NT. We also had the NFL's sack leader. I don't give much credit, if any, to McBean, Peterson, or Haggan for our defensive success. And I lump most of the breakdown in rush defense firmly on them not dominating the line. Hey, LeKevin Smith and Marcus Thomas both sucked this year too. Smith has an excuse, he hurt his knee and tried to play through it all season. The rest of the guys just aren't good enough.
In a two gap system, it's ok for your DE to be a one-dimensional "edge setter" as you put it. In our system, it is not. A premium is placed on 3-4 DE penetration. We must have well rounded DEs that collapse the pocket and worry opposing offenses. McBean and Peterson were completely outplayed by Vonnie Holliday, it wasn't even close. He was better against the run. He was better at getting to the QB. He just was limited because he's so old in how many snaps he can give a game. We need to find two Vonnie Holliday type talents to start for us. Jared Odrick is one. Arthur Jones is one. Tyson Alualu is one. And I am very intrigued by Jarvis Jenkins.
You might be right that it will take a year or two before the rookies can contribute significantly. We might be forced to keep Peterson and McBean in starting roles another year. However, we need to start that process as soon as possible so we can get those guys into reserve roles or off our roster.
Again, until the Broncos can find better players, they will be the starters.
We wouldn't have a top 10 D if it wasn't for McBean. Our D suffered when he was out. I think in due time McBean will be really good. I would like us to sign Richard Seymour to play opposite him.
RE-SIGN - kuper, law, prater, colquitt, greisen, barrett, hochstein, dumervil, orton, marshall, le kevan smith
Scheffler (RFA) - round 2 compensation - trade
FA
Randy Mcmichael - TE
David Baas - G
Fred Robbins - de/nt
Matt Roth - ilb
DRAFT
1 - Sam Bradford - QB - Oklahoma - 6-4 - 218
2 - Terrence Cody - NT - Alabama - 6-4 - 365
2 - Arthur Jones - DE - Syracuse - 6-3 - 295
3 - Ted Larsen - C - North Carolina State - 6-2 - 300
4 - Mitch Petrus - OG - Arkansas - 6-3 - 315
6 - Keith Toston - RB - Oklahoma State - 6-0 - 214
7 - A.J. Wallace - CB - Penn State - 6-0 - 195
UFA
Chris Hall - C - Texas - 6-4 - 300
LeGarrette Blount - RB - Oregon - 6-2 - 240
Let me know what you think
If we resign Orton and draft Bradford, who will be the starting QB?
Picking a QB in the 1st and sitting them out would be a waste IMO.
If Bradford starts then Orton becomes #2. We will miss out on the chance to see what Orton can do after a year of learning the system.
I dunno. Personally, I would have no problem cutting both of them. And certainly not McBean. In a one-gap 3-4 scheme, you have to have DEs that can offer pass rush potential as well as gap control. McBean is all gap and he's not that good. That's why he was out of the NFL entirely. Peterson is a little more rounded, but he sucks too. I might keep these guys for reserve roles, I don't want them starting. Vonnie Holliday, at age 100, outplayed both easily.
I'm hoping Pedescleaux showed enough to make the team next year and replace one of them. Hopefully, we will draft a DE within the first 2 Rounds. And hopefully, LeKevin Smith gets healthy and plays like he did in New England for us. If so, he's taking McBean's job.
We'll see how it all plays out. I look at our defense and I still see DE as the biggest need. We must have pass rush potential out of the DEs on top of the rush defense. You look for two younger Vonnie Hollidays to start. To me, that's Odrick, Jones, Alualu, and maybe Jenkins.
Mug Mcbean is in his third year going on fourth. your right he is not a pass rush threat. Mcbean was drafted in the fourth round where you typically see 3-4 lineman go. It also takes lineman a few years to mature. How many are pass rush threats in the nfl that play end very very few. Vonnie didnt see much time in the base defense although he was used extensively in the nickel and did a wonderful job.
Before this team gave up we were stellar on D. We didnt get hardly any sacks or pressure from the left side of the line. We definelty need to see Ayers take a huge step next year. I dont dissaggree we could get better on the lines however i think you overstated just how bad this defense is. We were on of the top Defenses in the leauge and i expect to see it get better. I just think you are placing to much emphasis on what happened late when the WHOLE TEAM gave up.
The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
While he sits by his hearth at home.
Quickly finds when questioned by others .
That he knows nothing at all.
Again, until the Broncos can find better players, they will be the starters.
I don't believe any rookies will beat them out.
What is it you always hear. It takes a few years for a lineman to mature and become a great player unless he is a superblue chip prospect and not always then. Mcbean was very disciplined and it showed. He is not much of a pass rush threat but until we can find that guy we are good.
I dont know why MUG dogs on him.
The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
While he sits by his hearth at home.
Quickly finds when questioned by others .
That he knows nothing at all.
RE-SIGN - kuper, law, prater, colquitt, greisen, barrett, hochstein, dumervil, orton, marshall, le kevan smith
Scheffler (RFA) - round 2 compensation - trade
FA
Randy Mcmichael - TE
David Baas - G
Fred Robbins - de/nt
Matt Roth - ilb
DRAFT
1 - R. McLain -ILB- Alabama
2 - M. Pouncey- C- Florida
2 - Arthur Jones - DE - Syracuse - 6-3 - 295 Yeah, ok.
3 - S. Canfield - QB- Oregon State
4 - Mitch Petrus - OG - Arkansas - 6-3 - 315 Converted TE/FB. Very mobile and at one point was undersized but his weight is now 315. I wonder if he is stout enough. He should be mobile enough though. I like this.
6 - Keith Toston - RB - Oklahoma State - 6-0 - 214
7 - A.J. Wallace - CB - Penn State - 6-0 - 195
UFA
Chris Hall - C - Texas - 6-4 - 300
LeGarrette Blount - RB - Oregon - 6-2 - 240 No
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