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Phenominal New Site For Individual Player Grades

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  • Phenominal New Site For Individual Player Grades

    I stumbled across this new site (Less than a month old) while doing some draft research. I've been tinkering with it the last few days to determine if I feel it is legitimate or not. My conclusion is that it is.

    These guys break down every play of every game and they grade all the players in the NFL on every possible aspect. We finally have a site that provides us with a comparable grade that coaches assign players. I'm sure it is not flawless, but I've cross-checked almost every team, I've poured hours into researching and studying this thing, and I've concluded that the individual player breakdown for every team appears to be extremely accurate and gives all of us an amazing tool to help discuss our team's players more intelligently, as well as, allows all of us a quick means of determining which NFL players on all teams have been producing, could be good trade targets, need to be replaced in the draft, etc...

    It's a slow time of sorts as we await the Combine and Pro Days leading up to the draft. Playing around with this site might make the time go a little quicker, I've found it kind of fascinating. It is tricky, and there is alot I still don't understand, but the individual team player breakdowns is where I think the useful data is.


    Here is the link to the Broncos Defensive page:




    Click on the tabs to see the other areas of the Broncos (Offense, Special Teams, etc...), and click on the "By Team" tab to get back to the 32 team page to check out other teams.




    Anyway, I'd like to have some discussions on the data this site shows, and how it might impact our draft plans. For instance:

    1) Ron Fields was solid as a NT against the run, but had no pass rush ability, which lowered his overall score, but also isn't important for a NT. However, he was far from dominating, just solid.

    2) Ryan McBean and Kenny Peterson were horrific against the run and pass.

    3) Vonnie Holliday played at a Pro Bowl level almost.

    4) Our best DE against the run, after Holliday, was....LeKevin Smith.

    5) Marcus Thomas wasn't that bad, he wasn't good, but he wasn't bad as a backup NT.

    6) DJ Williams had a terrible year in all aspects except blitzing.

    7) Mario Haggan is actually good, especially against the run.

    8) Andra Davis played lights out for us, we don't need to replace him.

    9) Robert Ayers had a lot of QB pressures. And graded well against the run.

    10) Woodyard graded out solid as a nickel LB.

    11) Andre Goodman sucks against the run.

    12) Darcel McBath appears to already be better than Renaldo Hill.

    13) Daniel Graham had a terrible year blocking, Richard Quinn actually graded out better on his limited snaps.

    14) Casey Wiegmann wasn't nearly as horrible as I thought he was, he actually was solid, but not as dominant as last year (you can check up to three years back).

    15) Chris Kuper....played decent. Excellent pass blocking grade, average in run blocking. Going by this grade, we should keep him and Wiegmann both.

    16) Ben Hamilton was ungodly bad. Hochstein was decent. Polumbus was bad. Harris wasn't nearly as dominant as we thought, but he was still solid.

    17) Spencer Larson is not a good run blocking FB.

    18) Eddie Royal graded out as an average returner.

    19) Larsen, McBath, Woodyard, and Bruton were special teams demons.

  • #2
    Great stuff....

    Doom rated out horrendous against the run

    Comment


    • #3
      Wow, it seems like they were on point, even though i would have never thought that about DJ. I have actually came to the point where i wouldn't mind keeping Kuper. I was thinking earlier today, if McBath was to really have a better camp than Hill, will McD let him start. I actually gave up on Davis, i thought he fell off in the middle of the season, but i guess its hard to get into Denver Shape (thin air)
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Ravage!!!
        Great stuff....

        Doom rated out horrendous against the run

        I know, and if you go to Dallas' team defensive page, Anthony Spencer's grades are insane against both. Ware was good against both too.

        Dumervil might be the most one-dimensional player in the league. At least it's the most needed dimension though, right?

        Regardless, I hope we bring that aspect up during contract talks.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by JayJack
          Wow, it seems like they were on point, even though i would have never thought that about DJ. I have actually came to the point where i wouldn't mind keeping Kuper. I was thinking earlier today, if McBath was to really have a better camp than Hill, will McD let him start. I actually gave up on Davis, i thought he fell off in the middle of the season, but i guess its hard to get into Denver Shape (thin air)

          The cool thing is if you click on the individual player's name, such as Andra Davis, it will break down his grades for each game.



          He played well the entire season. No cliff.

          Comment


          • #6
            Don't believe everything on that site... It has Kirk Morrison ranked as the 4th best rush defender yet he's always out of position, can't get off blocks, and over pursues all the time. The stats are correct for the most part, like for for cb's safeties, etc
            Last edited by RaiderFanSD; 02-06-2010, 11:14 PM.

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            • #7
              A good amount of members already know about this site. I used it as a reference to back up Ayers play towards the end of the year. Neleus also used it as a reference to show how Brandon Flowers is a better cornerback than Champ Bailey...moron. Yeah it really is a great site. I especially love how they record hurries and QB hits for the defensive players. Great site, however some of their stats conflict with the NFL's official stats...particularly pass deflections for the CB's.

              Still a pretty sweet reference website.
              New England Patriots GM

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              • #8
                This site is awesome... :salute!:

                I was very surprised to see how well Vonnie Holliday and Andra Davis played this year.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gbt31
                  A good amount of members already know about this site. I used it as a reference to back up Ayers play towards the end of the year. Neleus also used it as a reference to show how Brandon Flowers is a better cornerback than Champ Bailey...moron. Yeah it really is a great site. I especially love how they record hurries and QB hits for the defensive players. Great site, however some of their stats conflict with the NFL's official stats...particularly pass deflections for the CB's.

                  Still a pretty sweet reference website.


                  You knew about this site and didn't tell me! <evil glare!>


                  And we're both Jacksonville-ians.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RaiderFanSD
                    Don't believe everything on that site... It has Kirk Morrison ranked as the 4th best rush defender yet he's always out of position, can't get off blocks, and over pursues all the time. The stats are correct for the most part, like for for cb's safeties, etc

                    Yeah, I'm sure there are some things that slip through the ratings. Such as lining up out of position, like you said. Also, if your QB holds the ball too long, it negatively impacts the O-lineman's grade, if the QB gets hit/pressured/sacked.

                    But still, I've been looking for this type of data for years and years. This is probably as good as we'll get being just normal fans. So, I know it probably isn't 100% accurate, but if it is around 85% accurate, that's still a gold mine to me.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
                      I know, and if you go to Dallas' team defensive page, Anthony Spencer's grades are insane against both. Ware was good against both too.

                      Dumervil might be the most one-dimensional player in the league. At least it's the most needed dimension though, right?

                      Regardless, I hope we bring that aspect up during contract talks.
                      Indeed!.... Right now he's a pure situational player, and can't justify paying HUGE money for that.

                      Thanks for the scoop

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ugh, Kyle Orton's breakdown is not too pretty:




                        He's tremendous from 0-9 yards. And then hideous from 10-19 yards. And then decent on the deep ball. I mean, how the hell are you good short and deep, but crappy in-between?

                        And sheesh, his "Outside the Numbers Left" stats in the 10-19 yard range are ungodly ugly. 12 for 27, 165 yards, 0 TDs, 3 INTs. Lets avoid calling those routes.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It looks like a great site by some enthusiastic hard-working fans.

                          That being said, I have a hard time seeing it as much more than that, given
                          their reluctance to disclose their grading process.

                          The .5 increments would seemingly lead one to believe that the analysis
                          is objective.

                          However, in my mind, these numbers largely reflect the individual opinions of those dealing the points.

                          The site's creators mention some of the aspects of grading
                          in passing a few times (the nature of sacks, LB tackles etc...)

                          Moreover, they detail some of the guiding principles governing the general grading process
                          -which, in this prick's opinion (me), seem to be a deceptive attempt to appear objective.

                          The actual codified grading process on the other hand, is addressed as such:

                          "Whilst I'm not going to explain exactly how we grade because to some degree that's our IP (Emphasis on P as opposed to I) and to another it's just extremely tedious."
                          *Man, I hate the term IP.*

                          This could mean -and I'm being intentionally absurd here- that
                          although a LB gets 0 points on a play where he makes a routine tackle,
                          in their unspecified system, this play can actually yield .5 points for the LB
                          if it is concluded by an "atta boy booty-slapping".



                          Reminds me of a FO exec with the 49ers.

                          A few years back the 49ers hired a big business consulting firm
                          to create a new version of the old draft value broad.

                          And so, along comes this Stanford MBA corpo-yup, never
                          having followed football in his life, to revise the draft value broad.

                          The 49ers were so impressed by the kid's research, that they
                          hired him away from the prestigious consulting firm he was working for.
                          He, Paraag Marathe, is now the VP of Business & Football Ops.

                          There's a really good article about him here.
                          sigpic

                          "Sauced."- Broshown Broenbro

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Great site, although obviously there are some discrepancies in their figures. Also - as you've mentioned - the other players on the team aren't necessarily taken into account. For example, DJ really has a lot to prove this season but also had to play behind one of the worst DEs in the league which really couldn't have helped him any.

                            Some of the figures don't really add up though, like Daniel Graham's numbers - apparently we gained 4.0ypc running off the TE (which is far better than we did up the middle - fewer than 3.5ypc through the 1 and 2 gaps) yet he's rated very poorly in run blocking.

                            Still, I really like the effort that these guys have put in...even if I don't like some of the results they put out.

                            EDIT: Liking Ayers' numbers - that's pretty much what I saw out of him, even if 85% of the board were bemoaning his lack of sacks.
                            sigpic

                            Elvon Millervil eat grues for breakfast.

                            Pey-Pey to Bey-Bey for the Tey-Dey.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hello

                              Work at the site in question and good to see it spawning into some good debate - ill make myself available to answer any questions as best I can.

                              Ill say a few things

                              *we're not gospel and our rankings cant be taken at face value - best to look at people in relation to players used in a similar role, and use your own weighting to assign how important different aspects of each persons play is (running backs especially)
                              *we do take into account QBs holding onto the ball - we assign QBs responsibility on sacks and its one of the reasons we have different numbers to the guys at Stats Inc who do not (i remember them giving Joe Thomas a sack when he sealed his guy off perfectly, to the point the DE gave up on the play, but for some reason Derek Anderson ran out of the pocket and into the defender)
                              *our stats and analysis are done retrospectively as opposed to the admirable but impossible real time effort that Stats Inc do. Its a lot quicker than us, but less accurate and its why they give tackles to players who weren't on the field
                              *we use a smaller team who are trained on grading and stat collecting in the same way to make things as objective as possible. Those who IDP Fantasy Football will know that scorers do things a lot differently
                              *same for analysis we use the same standards throughout as we only have a small number of people do analysis - player participation is a bit different but its a lot easier to be completely objective
                              *by all means challenge us on our ratings and gradings - we'll try to defend/ explain them and we're confident, but like everyone else we are human and can make mistakes (some of them are formatting)
                              *we ignore all the atta-boy butt slapping :p

                              Onto the more interesting football stuff I think the talent on defense needs an upgrade. I doubt Richard Seymour hits the FA market, but he'd be the exact type of player you need. Failing that Aubrayo Franklin would be a good pick up if he doesn't get tagged though be wary of a guy who is on the wane like Casey Hampton imo. Terrence Cody in the draft?

                              I'm interested to see what Ayers can do - and I'm interested what Dumervil does next year. Seeing how one dimensional he is I can see him struggling to get anywhere near the sack numbers he got last year, though the emergence of Ayers may take some of the pressure away from him.

                              Comment

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