Mindfield's Makeover

[johnlimburg]

1) DE Nick Fairley, Auburn
2) FS Quinton Carter, Oklahoma
2) (From Mia) CB Curtis Brown, Texas
3) NT Phil Taylor, Baylor
3) (Aq from Team X for K Orton) OLB/DE Antoine Carter, Auburn
5) (From Team X for K Orton) FB Owen Marecic, Stanford
6) TE Konrad Rueland, Stanford
7) DE/OLB Thomas Keiser, Stanford

Kyle Orton is traded for a 3rd round pick and another pick (maybe a 5th?) to one of several possible teams, including Washington, Minnesota, Tennessee, Miami, Arizona among others. In the end, someone will need a QB, and Orton will be traded for a 3rd plus another pick.


ORT Ryan Harris and LDE Kevin Vickerson are signed to four year contract extensions.

RB Laurence Maroney and DT Marcus Thomas are allowed to walk in free agency.

Denver signs Dallas free agent DE Jason Hatcher to a five year contract.

Denver releases RB Correll Buckhalter, TE Daniel Graham and FS Brian Dawkins.

OLB/DE Jason Hunter is re-signed to a two year contract.

The Broncos sign CB Champ Bailey to a four year extension.

WR Eddie Royal is signed to a six year extension

OG Russ Hochstein retires

I love it. However there is one thing in my opinion that could make it better. I know someone said steven friday is better. I do agree. However I think Mcbath should be the future starter at FS. I know he is injury prone. But im not willing to use a 2nd for a potential backup.

However if you really want quinton carter I would say you could draft him with the 2nd 3rd pick where you have antione carter. I would say you could get a much better OLB/DE with our 1st 2nd rounder which could be like the 34th-36th pick. We could maybe get a shot at a guy jeremy beal if he falls a bit. Then you could get carter in the 3rd. Curtis with the 2nd 2nd rounder and with the first lets say jeremy beal.

[Joshecalpoly]

I love it. However there is one thing in my opinion that could make it better. I know someone said steven friday is better. I do agree. However I think Mcbath should be the future starter at FS. I know he is injury prone. But im not willing to use a 2nd for a potential backup.

However if you really want quinton carter I would say you could draft him with the 2nd 3rd pick where you have antione carter. I would say you could get a much better OLB/DE with our 1st 2nd rounder which could be like the 34th-36th pick. We could maybe get a shot at a guy jeremy beal if he falls a bit. Then you could get carter in the 3rd. Curtis with the 2nd 2nd rounder and with the first lets say jeremy beal.

Agreed I feel we are writing off McBath to soon although his injuries are frustrating it may not necessarily be him but the training staff who is not keeping him properly conditioned. We have way to many players on this team that keep getting injured for it to be a coincidence. I am not saying he isnt probably prone to injury but I do not have much faith in Rich Tuten right now.

[stnzed]

A couple of things here:

I put this thread together as a prediction of what I think will happen. I am trying, for my own entertainment, to predict what will actually happen with the Broncos, and to see how close I can come, if at all.

Xanders is not MY choice.

Jim Harbaugh is my choice.

But my choices never happen...that is what I have learned in my now forty years of watching the Broncos.

Xanders makes sense to Bowlen and Ellis because he is already in house, and...

-he fits the model of the young Jr exec to a proverbial 'T', and you could make an argument that his resume stands up well to the Eric DeCosta's of the NFL world
-from what I can tell, Xanders is well respected in general in the NFL community
-he is obviously very good with money and the salary cap, as he cleaned up the books in just two years, which were a mess

Additionally, I believe the Rooney rule has been expanded to interviewing for top NFL jobs, such as GM, so it would streamline the Broncos offseason by not having to conduct that search.

Xanders is in place, and he is a young 'up and comer', and a guy that has legitimately earned an opportunity to see if he can do the job.

Bowlen and Ellis are most likely to do what they are comfortable with, and I think they have shown, particularly in the showdown with the Goodman's that they like Brian Xanders.

Now John Elway just has to sign off on it, and Xanders will get the gig, IMO.

That's all I'm saying.

I didn't mean to imply that Zanders would be your choice, just that Denver has to do better than that.

I don't know how anybody in this incompetent leadership could be considered an up-and-comer, especially Xanders.......I sincerely doubt that. He is a salary cap guy, not a football guy. Just ask his former boss, Ken Herock, who hired him to be a cap geek and said he had next to no experience as a scout and no experience as a talent evaluator during his time in Atlanta.

If they retain him as a real GM and charged him with fixing this whirlpool of BS I see it more as another huge indication that Pat Bowlen is as cheap as they get, not that he's the next Dimitroff. It's literally impossible to make that correlation with what has happened to this franchise. And you'd fail miserably when trying to comparing him to anybody in the Baltimore front office.

His reputation absolutely has to be of being part of one of the most inept and incompetent front offices of the modern NFL era. If he enjoys the reputation suggested here it would almost have to be for his work in contract negotiations.

By the way, the books were clean when McDaniels took over, I'm not sure how much Xanders had to do with that.......

[Snarfalicious]

I didn't mean to imply that Zanders would be your choice, just that Denver has to do better than that.

I don't know how anybody in this incompetent leadership could be considered an up-and-comer, especially Xanders.......I sincerely doubt that. He is a salary cap guy, not a football guy. Just ask his former boss, Ken Herock, who hired him to be a cap geek and said he had next to no experience as a scout and no experience as a talent evaluator during his time in Atlanta.

If they retain him as a real GM and charged him with fixing this whirlpool of BS I see it more as another huge indication that Pat Bowlen is as cheap as they get, not that he's the next Dimitroff. It's literally impossible to make that correlation with what has happened to this franchise. And you'd fail miserably when trying to comparing him to anybody in the Baltimore front office.

His reputation absolutely has to be of being part of one of the most inept and incompetent front offices of the modern NFL era. If he enjoys the reputation suggested here it would almost have to be for his work in contract negotiations.

By the way, the books were clean when McDaniels took over, I'm not sure how much Xanders had to do with that.......

This is a spot on post. I find myself simply wanting to see the Broncos was their hands of anything that had to do with the past two years. Unfortunately, Bowlen and Ellis will still be around. We can be forever grateful for what Bowlen has done for this franchise, but it's starting to feel like the Raiders organization in which Al Davis seemed to be senile and taking the organization down with his health.

There are plenty of great options that would presumably want to help us bring this proud franchise back into football relevance. If you read my mock or just about any comment from me on the topic my choice is Eric DeCosta for multiple reasons. Learned under Ozzie Newsome, comes from the Ravens so he's familiar with an attacking 3-4 scheme and the talent required for it, and he's really been Newsome's right hand man in times in which they've drafted players like Ngata, Flacco, Suggs, etc.

If we really want to turn the tide of this franchise, we have to start with a reliable man who can diagnose talent and also know what he's looking for. It may not be DeCosta in the end, but the next guy better have some sort of concrete success or roots in the NFL.

[MindField]

I didn't mean to imply that Zanders would be your choice, just that Denver has to do better than that.

I don't know how anybody in this incompetent leadership could be considered an up-and-comer, especially Xanders.......I sincerely doubt that. He is a salary cap guy, not a football guy. Just ask his former boss, Ken Herock, who hired him to be a cap geek and said he had next to no experience as a scout and no experience as a talent evaluator during his time in Atlanta.

If they retain him as a real GM and charged him with fixing this whirlpool of BS I see it more as another huge indication that Pat Bowlen is as cheap as they get, not that he's the next Dimitroff. It's literally impossible to make that correlation with what has happened to this franchise. And you'd fail miserably when trying to comparing him to anybody in the Baltimore front office.

His reputation absolutely has to be of being part of one of the most inept and incompetent front offices of the modern NFL era. If he enjoys the reputation suggested here it would almost have to be for his work in contract negotiations.

By the way, the books were clean when McDaniels took over, I'm not sure how much Xanders had to do with that.......

I don't disagree.

I am not thrilled with the idea of Brian Xanders taking over, as I also have serious questions about his personnel evaluation skills.

To me, even though Xanders was not hired by McDaniels, he is obviously associated with the last two seasons. He can't completely divorce himself of that.

My real hope is that John Elway will restore some good judgement and level-headedness to the organization.

That said, I don't want Kubiak, Dennison or any former 'Broncos' brought back. I think the team needs a new voice and a new direction, and we have seen how young GM's like Thomas Dimitrov, Scott Pioli and Mark Dominik have fared, and to me, that is the way to go.

I would like to see the Broncos hire Eric DeCosta and let him do the rest with the hope he would bring is Jim Harbaugh, and if we do get the first pick in the draft, and we were to somehow end up with Harbaugh and Luck, that would be amazing, but that's just my opinion.

[MindField]

I do a fair amount of creeping on this forum and since your someone whos opinion matters to me i have a few questions.

1st off, do you really think we can get a 3rd and a 5th for orton? Do we really try and trade him? I have watched everygame this season and in my honest opinion i think a 4th or 5th alone would be all we could get.

If everyone knows we are going with tebow and we want to move orton don't you think teams asking price would lower? Maybe they wait and hope we cut him? Idk just thinking out loud here...

Next Lets say for the sake of your mock we do get a 3rd and a 5th for orton, why CB so high? I like the FS pick and i know we do need a CB but id much rather wait till the 3rd or later and adress another need. That and/or look to FA for another CB.

I say this because looking at your depth chart our RB depth sucks. Im not sold on ball at all, White imo won't be back and will be one slow back due to his injury. Also I notice our OL depth is very weak, if someone gets hurt it seems we would be screwed. It just seems that maybe we look into the draft for some depth here? Or do we sign a FA or just let it roll?

Im on the fence on whether bailey will be here next season and i really hope cox is found innocent but with these 2 up in the air i can see why you have CB high i guess right.

As for the mock I like the players you picked for the most part. Im alitte unfamiliar with Antoine Carter and Curtis Brown but im sure they're fitting. I would just like to see a Rb or OL taken rather then 2 OLB.

I have operated under the assumption that Denver would not be picking No. 1 overall, but every week, they seem to be creeping more and more in that direction.

I like Tebow, but if Denver ends up No. 1 overall, and Luck is there, I take Luck in a heartbeat, because to me, he is easily the best QB prospect to come down the line since Peyton Manning, and this is still a QB driven league.

I am heavily biased toward Stanford players and what Harbaugh has done there, which I consider to be nothing short of amazing. Yes, he is a college coach, but I think great coaches transcend their level, and when you watch Stanford, their team plays smart and with a swagger...and who would expect that from Stanford? Harbaugh breaks down NFL tape for his brother John in the offseason, and is usually on the sidelines for a Ravens game or two late in the season, so I don't see him as a college coach isolated from the NFL game.

Luck, FB Owen Marecic, NT Sione Fua, TE Konrad Rueland and OLB/DE Thomas Keiser are all players I think will be playing on Sundays, and I would love to see play in Denver

So that is where it starts for me, where does Denver end up selecting, and does Andrew Luck declare?

Once those questions are answered, alot will fall in line.

As for Orton, yes I believe he will be traded. I see it as 'QB musical chairs'...once the music stops playing, and McNabb finds his new home, etc, Orton is going to have value IMO to someone. I think a
3rd round pick for a competent starting QB is fair value. I think Orton could do quite well with a team like Miami, for example, with their strong running game and defense.

Is he the desired answer for anyone else? Probably not, but for teams like Miami, Minnesota, San Francisco, Arizona, Washington, Tennessee, etc, all of which may have serious QB issues, I just believe someone will take Orton, even if he is viewed a short term answer.

I don't know what his actual trade value is, but we saw what San Diego got for a completely unproven Charlie Whitehurst, or what Houston gave up for Matt Shaub, so in the end, I do believe there will be a market for Orton.

Your concerns about RB are absolutely legit. The problem is, this is just not a great draft for RB's, so unless the Broncos take a shot at the Illinois RB Michael Leshore in the second round, I am not sure what the answer is. I think Houston's Derrick Ward could factor in through free agency, or maybe a Marion Barber, who I expect Dallas to release, but yes, I agree RB is a major issue for us.

But as the old cliche' goes, Rome wasn't built in a day, and the Broncos aren't going to repair everything wrong in one offseason.

As for Antoine Carter, I am not sure why his value is still considered mid to late rounds, because he is a good 3-4 OLB prospect, IMO. At 6'4"-256, he has pass rush ability, and has been a very strong player and leader on the No. 1 team in the nation, so I ecpect his value to go up in the days leading up to the draft. I still see him in that 3rd or 4th round area, but since I am projecting him as a backup for Ayers initially, that's good value for him as far as I am concerned.

Brown is admittedly kinda a 'dart board' player at this point in time, meaning, I haven't really scouted him out, he is just a name I continue to see projected in the second round area, which has traditionally had value for DB's, so I picked him for now. I am sure I will revise that as the offseason progresses, and the Sr Bowl and combine, etc info is made available.

I also like the Colorado CB's Jimmy Smith and Jalil Brown. To me, the decision the Broncos make with Bailey and ultimately what happens to Perrish Cox is huge.

If Bailey does leave via free agency and Cox is found gulity, the Broncos are going to have major issues on the corner. Conversely, I still think Bailey has a couple of good years left on the corner, and he is a great role modle for younger players like Cox and Syd'Quan Thompson, who I also like, so I say pay the guy and keep him in the fold.

As for Quinton Carter, I really like that player, and I think he is going to be a very good NFL FS for a long time, and I am not sold on McBath at all.

In the end, if Denver were to draft Luck and hire Jim Harbaugh, we could start adding to our SB trophy collection in about four years.

That is how much I think of those two.

[McLean]

I have operated under the assumption that Denver would not be picking No. 1 overall, but every week, they seem to be creeping more and more in that direction.

I like Tebow, but if Denver ends up No. 1 overall, and Luck is there, I take Luck in a heartbeat, because to me, he is easily the best QB prospect to come down the line since Peyton Manning, and this is still a QB driven league.

I am heavily biased toward Stanford players and what Harbaugh has done there, which I consider to be nothing short of amazing. Yes, he is a college coach, but I think great coaches transcend their level, and when you watch Stanford, their team plays smart and with a swagger...and who would expect that from Stanford? Harbaugh breaks down NFL tape for his brother John in the offseason, and is usually on the sidelines for a Ravens game or two late in the season, so I don't see him as a college coach isolated from the NFL game.

Luck, FB Owen Marecic, NT Sione Fua, TE Konrad Rueland and OLB/DE Thomas Keiser are all players I think will be playing on Sundays, and I would love to see play in Denver

So that is where it starts for me, where does Denver end up selecting, and does Andrew Luck declare?

Once those questions are answered, alot will fall in line.

As for Orton, yes I believe he will be traded. I see it as 'QB musical chairs'...once the music stops playing, and McNabb finds his new home, etc, Orton is going to have value IMO to someone. I think a
3rd round pick for a competent starting QB is fair value. I think Orton could do quite well with a team like Miami, for example, with their strong running game and defense.

Is he the desired answer for anyone else? Probably not, but for teams like Miami, Minnesota, San Francisco, Arizona, Washington, Tennessee, etc, all of which may have serious QB issues, I just believe someone will take Orton, even if he is viewed a short term answer.

I don't know what his actual trade value is, but we saw what San Diego got for a completely unproven Charlie Whitehurst, or what Houston gave up for Matt Shaub, so in the end, I do believe there will be a market for Orton.

Your concerns about RB are absolutely legit. The problem is, this is just not a great draft for RB's, so unless the Broncos take a shot at the Illinois RB Michael Leshore in the second round, I am not sure what the answer is. I think Houston's Derrick Ward could factor in through free agency, or maybe a Marion Barber, who I expect Dallas to release, but yes, I agree RB is a major issue for us.

But as the old cliche' goes, Rome wasn't built in a day, and the Broncos aren't going to repair everything wrong in one offseason.

As for Antoine Carter, I am not sure why his value is still considered mid to late rounds, because he is a good 3-4 OLB prospect, IMO. At 6'4"-256, he has pass rush ability, and has been a very strong player and leader on the No. 1 team in the nation, so I ecpect his value to go up in the days leading up to the draft. I still see him in that 3rd or 4th round area, but since I am projecting him as a backup for Ayers initially, that's good value for him as far as I am concerned.

Brown is admittedly kinda a 'dart board' player at this point in time, meaning, I haven't really scouted him out, he is just a name I continue to see projected in the second round area, which has traditionally had value for DB's, so I picked him for now. I am sure I will revise that as the offseason progresses, and the Sr Bowl and combine, etc info is made available.

I also like the Colorado CB's Jimmy Smith and Jalil Brown. To me, the decision the Broncos make with Bailey and ultimately what happens to Perrish Cox is huge.

If Bailey does leave via free agency and Cox is found gulity, the Broncos are going to have major issues on the corner. Conversely, I still think Bailey has a couple of good years left on the corner, and he is a great role modle for younger players like Cox and Syd'Quan Thompson, who I also like, so I say pay the guy and keep him in the fold.

As for Quinton Carter, I really like that player, and I think he is going to be a very good NFL FS for a long time, and I am not sold on McBath at all.

In the end, if Denver were to draft Luck and hire Jim Harbaugh, we could start adding to our SB trophy collection in about four years.

That is how much I think of those two.

Thank you.

Everything you said pretty much make sense, i agree that there will be a market for orton im just un sure on his real value. If someone offered us up a 4th or 5th rounder for him this offseason i could see us jumping on it. We'll see with in the coming months right.

As for luck, hes going to be a stud i agree. I just look at the situation a little diffrent then you. I feel we will be picking #2 and even if luck is somehow there for us i would pass/trade out. Im just so in love with Nick Fairley right now and i feel that tebows work ethic will elevate others and help lead us to where we want to go. I don't want to draft someone that doesn't fill a instant need i guess. Lets see what Tim can do and lets build the D you know?

It's all up to Harbaugh and what he does, if he leaves luck comes out and everything changes. I just feel the pressing need to adress the D over rides the choice of luck #2 overall as our QB. Plus i really feel that Luck stays in school with Harbaugh, with the possibility of a up coming lock out next season.

The only way i would want denver to take luck is if Harbaugh comes in as our new coach. They work so well together and Luck is going to be a superstar so why not. I just don't see it as very likely...

[KWHIT97]

Looks pretty good and very well could happen, however, I do not think there is any way we get a 3rd and 5th for Kyle Orton, at best we get a conditional 2012 pick or a 4th or 5th in this draft for him. To get the best value from him we may need to keep into the preseason and wait for someone's starter to go down, then we can get maybe a 2012 2nd or 3rd, but to me, even that seems doubtful.

Something will have to be done with Brandon Lloyd, no way he plays out his contract making what he is making now, he will want a new deal and could possibly be a holdout if he doesn't get it right away.

To me, we have to completely strip down the defense and rebuild it from the ground up, I do want to stick to the 3-4, but no to Eric Mangini, I do not want anymore Patriots assts anywhere near this team, my ideal scenario would be to pluck Vic Fangio from Stanford, but he may follow Harbaugh whereever he goes.

On the d-line, I would like to see Vickerson and Thomas re-signed, the rest can leave for all I care. Then by nabbing Fairley and maybe Jared Crick in the 2nd, along with a NT like Phil Taylor we add much needed youth to the d-line.

At LB, I would like us to shop D.J., he seems disinterested anymore and he might have the most trade value out of any of our defensive players, I'm gonna say maybe we can get a late 2nd out of him.

I do want to re-sign Champ, but if he is allowed to hit FA, this might be hard to do cause teams will be throwing offers at him left and right, and if a contender wants him, they will probably get him.

I wouldn't mind Fassel, he is a good coach and brings experience to the position.

If these F.O. moves and coaching moves were made, my ideal off-season would be;

FA - Tim Hightower, Tony Scheffler, Jason Hatcher, Richard Marshall, and Abram Elam.

Draft;
1. Patrick Peterson
2. Jared Crick
2. Phil Taylor
2. Deunta Williams
3. Chris Gallippo
after that I don't care!