If Dareus is gone I want...

[MarshallMoss]

I don't think DE is a current strenght on the roster. And probably many here will agree with me. There are more question marks than answers.

1. Will Dumervil return 100% ready to be productive without any setback?

2. Ayers has been an underachiever so far. He played 3-4 OLB most of the time but line up as DE as well on passing downs. He is a question mark.

3. Who will join the rotation? Veikune? Hunter? That's it?

These questions in my opinion, already make DE a valid pick.

I can't see how the top DE on the board woud be a bad pick. The Giants are an example of a competitive team that adds quality depth at DE wihout hesitation.

Dumervil is coming back from a torn pectoral muscle, Ayers will be tested at DE with an unimpressive career. It's not about giving up on anybody.

You simply add quality to the DL and let the best players play, building a strong rotation for 16 games and hopefully beyond. I am sure that Denver is not loaded at DE.

I am not against Von Miller. But in my opinion, the team will be able to find a good 4-3 LB in the 2nd or 3rd round. DE, on the other hand, is a position that will be targeted in the 1st round, and the best ones will be gone early.

If your talking about DE depth the #2 pick overall is not where to find it. The NY Giants drafted a DE to move to SLB in Kiki. We have a chance to draft a LB to play SLB that many draft scouts has the physical ability to play linebacker better than any other lb in the draft - without even factoring in pass rush ability. Throw in his pash rush ability - Von Miller has shown consistently he is better than anyone in this entire draft at getting to the QB.

I believe Ayers is on his way to great things for us, and I would rather draft a player that fulfills a starting need for us not depth at #2!

[-Rod-]

At DT, we have Kevin Vickerson. Thats it.

/end of arguement.

The thread mentions "IF... Dareus is gone"...

And if he is gone, I don't want Fairley just because he plays DT.

I would draft Von Miller ahead of Fairley without a doubt.

I believe Ayers is on his way to great things for us, and I would rather draft a player that fulfills a starting need for us not depth at #2!

I'm reading these kind of things since April 2009. Now we are in 2011, and it's time to make sure we have passs rush after finishing dead last in the NFL. It's not time to wait for Mayock's prophecy to become reality.

And I am not talking only about depth. I'm talking about a starter, a starting DE for a 4-3 defense. Depth will be provided by whoever loses the competition.

Because we can also put Woodyard, Williams and Haggan as our LBs, and say that Miller would be just depth at #2 as well. And at SLB, which is not a premium position.

But obviously that's not the case. You want Miller because he can be a special OLB. Just like I want the top DE on the board because he can be a special starter.

EDIT: not to mention that, if we draft a DE, we can use him and Ayers on the DL and Dumervil as a rush LB for certain packages and passing situations.

[JayJack]

I don't think DE is a current strenght on the roster. And probably many here will agree with me. There are more question marks than answers.

1. Will Dumervil return 100% ready to be productive without any setback?

2. Ayers has been an underachiever so far. He played 3-4 OLB most of the time but line up as DE as well on passing downs. He is a question mark.

3. Who will join the rotation? Veikune? Hunter? That's it?

These questions in my opinion, already make DE a valid pick.

I can't see how the top DE on the board woud be a bad pick. The Giants are an example of a competitive team that adds quality depth at DE wihout hesitation.

Dumervil is coming back from a torn pectoral muscle, Ayers will be tested at DE with an unimpressive career. It's not about giving up on anybody.

You simply add quality to the DL and let the best players play, building a strong rotation for 16 games and hopefully beyond. I am sure that Denver is not loaded at DE.

I am not against Von Miller. But in my opinion, the team will be able to find a good 4-3 LB in the 2nd or 3rd round. DE, on the other hand, is a position that will be targeted in the 1st round, and the best ones will be gone early.

I get what you're saying, but I wouldn't like drafting a DE @ #2 at all. The mystery is how did Foxy feel about Ayers and Veikune when they came out? Ayers and Veikune fits the type of DE's that Foxy/the Panthers draft. What I don't want us to do is start giving up on players to soon (and I know you agree because you hated that we gave up on A. Smith).

Ayers is going into his 3rd year, and IMO, he was having a good year until he got injured. Personally, I like what we have at DE, and while I do agree that we need to add another DE, #2 isn't the pick to do it at. Let's give Ayers and DOOM some "Space Eaters" in the middle and watch them get to the QB.

[DishWater]

If we don't decide to draft a QB, I think we go Miller, assuming Dareus goes 1st overall...

[TheJackal]

I don't think DE is a current strenght on the roster. And probably many here will agree with me. There are more question marks than answers.

1. Will Dumervil return 100% ready to be productive without any setback?

2. Ayers has been an underachiever so far. He played 3-4 OLB most of the time but line up as DE as well on passing downs. He is a question mark.

3. Who will join the rotation? Veikune? Hunter? That's it?

These questions in my opinion, already make DE a valid pick.

I can't see how the top DE on the board woud be a bad pick. The Giants are an example of a competitive team that adds quality depth at DE wihout hesitation.

Dumervil is coming back from a torn pectoral muscle, Ayers will be tested at DE with an unimpressive career. It's not about giving up on anybody.

You simply add quality to the DL and let the best players play, building a strong rotation for 16 games and hopefully beyond. I am sure that Denver is not loaded at DE.

I am not against Von Miller. But in my opinion, the team will be able to find a good 4-3 LB in the 2nd or 3rd round. DE, on the other hand, is a position that will be targeted in the 1st round, and the best ones will be gone early.

You don't base a pick speculative questions, you base it on facts.

By your logic:
With all the questions at QB, we HAVE to draft Blaine Gabbert or Cam Newton at #2!

See how stupid that is? You don't give up on players till they've had a fair chance to prove themselves. Thus, Ayers gets one more year and Tebow gets one or two to show us what they can offer.

[-Rod-]

You don't base a pick speculative questions, you base it on facts.

I disagree. If that was the case, teams would never draft busts. The draft is a huge speculation from its beginning until the end. Also, teams would never draft best player available outside positons of need if not for the speculation of getting a special player even if he does not fill a need. The draft is more about hope than certainty.

By your logic:
With all the questions at QB, we HAVE to draft Blaine Gabbert or Cam Newton at #2!

I disagree again. That's not my logic. That's your logic. First of all, QB and DE are different positions. You play with only 1 QB on offense. You play with 2 DEs at the same time on defense. And there is a strong rotation among DEs during a game.

So, you are comparing apples to oranges. If we draft a new franchise QB, and he becomes the starter, the other QBs will not get playing time as long as the new QB remains the starter.

When it comes to DEs, the new player would not prevent Dumervil, Ayers and possibily one more player to make plays while being part of a rotation throughout the season.

Plus, the "questions" at QB and DE are different. We don't have an injured starting QB. But we have our starting DE returning from a serious injury that might give him problems for a while. We don't have a QB switching positions. But we have a DE that was previously a 3-4 OLB for 2 seasons.

We are not 32nd in passing yards. Our QBs can throw the ball. But we are 32nd in sacks. We can't produce edge pressure. Completely different situations.

See how stupid that is? You don't give up on players till they've had a fair chance to prove themselves. Thus, Ayers gets one more year and Tebow gets one or two to show us what they can offer.

I disagree one more time. The Broncos won't give up on Ayers as long as he is part of the roster and active for the games. Competition happens, the best players are named starters, the others fight for playing time and the depth chart can change depending on performance.

You might be confused, thinking that Ayers would be abandoned by the Broncos after 2 seasons. That's not the case. That's what happened to Alphonso Smith, who was released after only 1 season because Josh McDaniels gave up on him prematurely to put Nate Jones on the field.

So, Ayers remains on the roster and gets one more year, or even two more years, to show what he can offer. But if he can't offer anything or very little, the Broncos don't suffer with lack of edge pressure.

[TheJackal]

I disagree. If that was the case, teams would never draft busts. The draft is a huge speculation from its beginning until the end. Also, teams would never draft best player available outside positons of need if not for the speculation of getting a special player even if he does not fill a need. The draft is more about hope than certainty.



I disagree again. That's not my logic. That's your logic. First of all, QB and DE are different positions. You play with only 1 QB on offense. You play with 2 DEs at the same time on defense. And there is a strong rotation among DEs during a game.

So, you are comparing apples to oranges. If we draft a new franchise QB, and he becomes the starter, the other QBs will not get playing time as long as the new QB remains the starter.

When it comes to DEs, the new player would not prevent Dumervil, Ayers and possibily one more player to make plays while being part of a rotation throughout the season.

Plus, the "questions" at QB and DE are different. We don't have an injured starting QB. But we have our starting DE returning from a serious injury that might give him problems for a while. We don't have a QB switching positions. But we have a DE that was previously a 3-4 OLB for 2 seasons.

We are not 32nd in passing yards. Our QBs can throw the ball. But we are 32nd in sacks. We can't produce edge pressure. Completely different situations.



I disagree one more time. The Broncos won't give up on Ayers as long as he is part of the roster and active for the games. Competition happens, the best players are named starters, the others fight for playing time and the depth chart can change depending on performance.

You might be confused, thinking that Ayers would be abandoned by the Broncos after 2 seasons. That's not the case. That's what happened to Alphonso Smith, who was released after only 1 season because Josh McDaniels gave up on him prematurely to put Nate Jones on the field.

So, Ayers remains on the roster and gets one more year, or even two more years, to show what he can offer. But if he can't offer anything or very little, the Broncos don't suffer with lack of edge pressure.

The speculation ends with the prospects. You see what you have with the current players on your roster before you draft their replacements.

Your logic was this: Because there is some uncertainty at a position regarding the players being starting material, you draft another player at that position to come compete. There are questions at DE, there are questions at QB, so it's not apples to oranges. You simply read too much into it sir. The point is, your adding a player into the mix just because other players MIGHT not work out. Real, current, GLARING needs supercede any luxury picks like that. It's just not worth it.

And if Ayers comes into his own, fulfills his potential, and becomes a dominant DE? With Doom on the other side, we just wasted a pick, drafting a player at a position we ended up not needing. Now we have 3 great DE's when only two can be on the field in our basic defense. Or, even worse, that pick turns out to be a bust and we just missed out on incredible players that had been right at our fingertips. Players that would have helped our team in immeasurable ways.

Overall, not a good idea.

[-Rod-]

And if Ayers comes into his own, fulfills his potential, and becomes a dominant DE? With Doom on the other side, we just wasted a pick, drafting a player at a position we ended up not needing. Now we have 3 great DE's when only two can be on the field in our basic defense. Or, even worse, that pick turns out to be a bust and we just missed out on incredible players that had been right at our fingertips. Players that would have helped our team in immeasurable ways.

But can't we say the same thing for every position? If Dareus, who is the player I want us to get, becomes a bust, we will have to accept that we missed out on incredible players. Same thing with Patrick Peterson, for example, and with any other player. Teams will always regret taking a bust. Denver wanted a WR in 2002, then drafted Ashley Lelie. 5 picks later, Baltimore drafted Ed Reed. Not cool.

And to answer the first part of your post, I don't think that 3 dominant DEs on the roster is such a bad situation. I don't think it's a wasted pick because the 3 DEs will play during the game and stay fresh during the season. The team does not lose its pass rush if one of these players get injured.

Some say you can never have enough pass rush. New York plays with Umenyiora, Tuck, Kiwanuka, Pierre-Paul. And they had Strahan in the recent past. New England could not handle that group when it was time to fight for the Lombardi.

Pittsburgh already has Woodley and Harrison as edge rushers, and added Worilds. And Gibson.

San Diego has Phillips and drafted English in the 1st round, when Merriman was still on the roster. Do you think they will wait for English to develop into a pass rusher and ignore the position? I think they will keep looking for a 3-4 OLB, even in the 1st round of this upcoming draft.

QB, for example, is a position that we could to reduce for now, and that's why we see so many fans projecting trades for Orton. Start Tebow, trade Orton. But DE is something we will probably have to add. It's not my first option because the hole at DT is ridiculous right now.

Somewhere in the draft or free agency, the team will look for a DE. If the #1 DE in the draft, according to Fox-Xanders-Elway, is available after Dareus becomes a Panther... I would be happy to have the DE on the roster.

If Dumervil is really 100% healthy, with low risk of re-aggravating his injury, is something that our coaching staff and medical staff can tell better than us. If John Fox is really excited about Ayers, behind closed doors when he does not have to send something to the press, is also a question that I have. We will find out when the final roster is completed, but I believe there will be an influx of DEs.

Just remember how many people were projecting Bowers to Denver before his stock fell due to the knee surgery.

What Denver can do, if Dareus is gone, or even if he is available, is draft Nick Fairley to fill the hole at DT. I must admit Fairley gives me a negative vibe but I'm not the one conducting interviews, researching the reports and the details of his life, so it's up to our staff.

[-Rod-]

Oh, and I completely forgot an important detail. Von Miller is the #1 OLB in this draft. The Broncos are showing interest in him. That's fine. But from what I've read, and Carolina fans might be able to help me here, John Fox does not use a lot of blitzes from his LBs in the 4-3. He likes to generate pass rush with the front four.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/the-playbook-abides-living-here-in-allentown

Several weeks ago, my colleague Ted Bartlett looked at what the Broncos might be doing this year as they try to incorporate Dennis Allen's aggressive style of defense into John Fox's generally non-aggressive 4-3, where pressure is generated primarily by the front four defenders.

Fox says he gives his coordinators free rein, so it's more than likely that Allen will bring at least some of the aggressive 46 to Denver.

Food for thought. Fox used his LBs to stop the run and play coverage. Not an aggressive defense. Von Miller is a pass rusher. Would Fox change his style of defense and let Dennis Allen use Miller extensively as an edge rusher? How limited would he be in our 4-3 scheme?

[qbronco]

Just some observations:

1. Dareus and Fairley appear to be the two best defensive tackles in the draft based on college production, strength of opponents, and workouts.

2. Lack of pass rush by our defense. Ranked last in total defense and sacks. This tells me that we are getting little to no pressure on the quarterback. Our run defense was not very good last year either.

3. Current DT's on the roster. Tell me which player, on the current roster, can come in and dominate the line of scrimmage?

4. According to most drafting experts, this draft is deep for defensive lineman. This team could certainly use more than one. A high 1st and a high 2nd could produce two top quality DT's.

5. Return of Dumervil, more expected production from Ayers in the 4-3. These guys have the potential to get pressure on the QB's. More pressure up the middle would only help them.

Conclusion: With the number two pick in the first round, the Denver Broncos select.....(Dareus or Fairley)! I don't even pretend to know what Carolina will do, but if they select a QB, would anyone honestly be disappointed with what our front office perceives to be the best Defensive Tackle in the draft?

[Ohenhen12345]

We need atleast DT in the draft. If we can get the best DT in the draft it will be a major win. Because right now on the roster we have Leonard Louis and Kevin Vickerson, that is extremely thin. We need two DT, plus a couple of college FA and maybe one major NFL FA to make up the numbers.

[MindField]

Why would anyone want a SAM OLB for the first round pick?

Von Miller is a 3-4 OLB, period, which is why he fits in Bufflo, not Denver.
He would be a 240lb DE in a 4-3, and SAM LB's don't genrally rush the passer.

Here is a name and a reason why you DON'T draft Von Miller....Aaron Curry.

Also, the knocks on Nick Fairley are a flat-out joke.

Not quick enough?

Was there a d-lineman quicker all of last season in college football? Hell No.

Best, most dominant defensive player in college football last season, period.
Absolutley dominated the best conference in college football, then capped it off by destroying Oregon in the Nat'l Championship game.

'Oh, but he's too mean...'

Really??!!

Since when was it a bad thing to have defensive players with an attitude. That would be a welcome change in Denver, where our defensive players couldn't spell attitiude, which is why our defense has sucked balls for the last several seasons.

Von Miller, the latest product from the over-rated hype-machine that has become projecting players for the NFL draft.

If Mayock likes him that much, that is reason alone to run in the opposite direction.

Mayock sucks.

[MindField]

Just some observations:

1. Dareus and Fairley appear to be the two best defensive tackles in the draft based on college production, strength of opponents, and workouts.

2. Lack of pass rush by our defense. Ranked last in total defense and sacks. This tells me that we are getting little to no pressure on the quarterback. Our run defense was not very good last year either.

3. Current DT's on the roster. Tell me which player, on the current roster, can come in and dominate the line of scrimmage?

4. According to most drafting experts, this draft is deep for defensive lineman. This team could certainly use more than one. A high 1st and a high 2nd could produce two top quality DT's.

5. Return of Dumervil, more expected production from Ayers in the 4-3. These guys have the potential to get pressure on the QB's. More pressure up the middle would only help them.

Conclusion: With the number two pick in the first round, the Denver Broncos select.....(Dareus or Fairley)! I don't even pretend to know what Carolina will do, but if they select a QB, would anyone honestly be disappointed with what our front office perceives to be the best Defensive Tackle in the draft?

I like Fairley, but I believe the Broncos pick will be Dareus.

I think Carolina is going to take a QB, either Newton or Gabbert, and if they are smart, it will be Gabbert.

The Broncos have no real d-linemen to speak of, especially at DT. I thnk it is imparative they take at least two in the first two rounds.

The pick is Dareus or Fairley, period.

Don't think, just send up the card. The Broncos get into real trouble when they start thinking.

Also, I hope Brian Xanders can evaluate talent better than he speaks. He sounds like a High School dropout when he talks.

[BroncoBryce]

Hunter was average in a 4-3,

Vuikune was great in college in a 4-3.

Ayers is a natural 4-3 end.

Doom got injured in training camp last year, he could have played as early as week 16 had he not been on IR. This lockout will last at least 1 week, so he has twice as much time to recover from the injury than he needed.

At DT, we have Kevin Vickerson. Thats it.

/end of arguement.

We are plenty deep at dt. We have vickerson who can rotate in for vickerson, then when he gets tired vickerson can come in on 3rd down! Draft a DE!

[-Rod-]

We are plenty deep at dt. We have vickerson who can rotate in for vickerson, then when he gets tired vickerson can come in on 3rd down! Draft a DE!

We could draft 6 DTs with the 6 draft picks. That would solve the problem.