DT Question

[WhereIsALWILSON]

What is the difference between the two different DTs in the 4-3? I understand one is more of a NT type but could someone explain it out.

[THEdraftnik]

A nose tackle in a 4-3 plays in the 1 gap between the guard and the center. The role of a nose tackle is to collapse the pocket on passing plays and be an immovable force on running plays. These men are often the unsung heros in that they take up blocker and force th play somewhere else.

An under tackle in a 4-3 plays in the 3 gap between the guard and the tackle. The role of an undertackle is to penetrate and make plays in the run and passing game. These are the players who consistently make the probowls because of their stats.

Marcell Dareus can play either, and Nick Fairley is an under tackle in case you are wondering.

[Jay3]

A nose tackle in a 4-3 plays in the 1 gap between the guard and the center. The role of a nose tackle is to collapse the pocket on passing plays and be an immovable force on running plays. These men are often the unsung heros in that they take up blocker and force th play somewhere else.

An under tackle in a 4-3 plays in the 3 gap between the guard and the tackle. The role of an undertackle is to penetrate and make plays in the run and passing game. These are the players who consistently make the probowls because of their stats.

Marcell Dareus can play either, and Nick Fairley is an under tackle in case you are wondering.

I think the first paragraph is supposed to say 3-4. Otherwise, very helpful. :thumb:

[THEdraftnik]

I think the first paragraph is supposed to say 3-4. Otherwise, very helpful. :thumb:

Only difference is that 3-4 nose tackles and 4-3 nose tacklea dont play the same gap. 3-4 plays the 0 gap and lines up over the center, 4-3 is in the 1 gap.

But of course, schemes vary and some are more about penetration and others are more about taking up blockers.

[Ohenhen12345]

The main role of DT in a 43 is to stop the run first, then collapse the pocket. If they register a sack that will be a bonus.

[omahaBroncoFan]

THEdraftnik's first post is a pretty good summary of how most teams end up. One DT in the 4-3 is more a run stopper the other guy is a bit more of a pass rusher.

I don't think most teams are too concerned about maintaining that balance though, I think its just a case that the run stoppers in a 4-3 are easier to find, but they'll always searching for that inner guy to get after the passer a little bit too. In the end the teams find themselves with that balance but I think most 4-3 teams are more concerned about getting the best DT available. Not to completely discount one gap DTs vs two gaps DTs and all, but that and other DT scheme characteristics seems to matter more in the mocks and less on draft day for 4-3 teams[Teams like Tennessee being the exclusion].

With Fox supposingly wanting an aggressive line, I am expecting him to give Fairley a little more weight in the debate process due to it being hard to get that type of player who can really get after the QB and with our existing players we really only have Doom on the entire DL who can be that aggressive player currently.

[broncos SB2010]

THEdraftnik's first post is a pretty good summary of how most teams end up. One DT in the 4-3 is more a run stopper the other guy is a bit more of a pass rusher.

I don't think most teams are too concerned about maintaining that balance though, I think its just a case that the run stoppers in a 4-3 are easier to find, but they'll always searching for that inner guy to get after the passer a little bit too. In the end the teams find themselves with that balance but I think most 4-3 teams are more concerned about getting the best DT available. Not to completely discount one gap DTs vs two gaps DTs and all, but that and other DT scheme characteristics seems to matter more in the mocks and less on draft day for 4-3 teams[Teams like Tennessee being the exclusion].

With Fox supposingly wanting an aggressive line, I am expecting him to give Fairley a little more weight in the debate process due to it being hard to get that type of player who can really get after the QB and with our existing players we really only have Doom on the entire DL who can be that aggressive player currently.

I disagree. Dareus will be able to get to the passer better than Fairley in the NFL as an UT. Fairley does not have the power or skills needed to be an effective every down elite player.

Last year Suh was the top DT with McCoy coming in second. Suh is more like Dareus than Fairley while McCoy is more like Fairley than Dareus. Interior Dline players need to have enough power or good hand skills to go up against the interior OLine. Fairley has neither. Dareus has both. He will be much better in the middle of the Dline.

[broncos SB2010]

A nose tackle in a 4-3 plays in the 1 gap between the guard and the center. The role of a nose tackle is to collapse the pocket on passing plays and be an immovable force on running plays. These men are often the unsung heros in that they take up blocker and force th play somewhere else.

An under tackle in a 4-3 plays in the 3 gap between the guard and the tackle. The role of an undertackle is to penetrate and make plays in the run and passing game. These are the players who consistently make the probowls because of their stats.

Marcell Dareus can play either, and Nick Fairley is an under tackle in case you are wondering.

That isn't necessarily accurate. Most of the interior Dline players are 3-4 guys playing either NT or a 3-4 DE.

[MindField]

A nose tackle in a 4-3 plays in the 1 gap between the guard and the center. The role of a nose tackle is to collapse the pocket on passing plays and be an immovable force on running plays. These men are often the unsung heros in that they take up blocker and force th play somewhere else.

An under tackle in a 4-3 plays in the 3 gap between the guard and the tackle. The role of an undertackle is to penetrate and make plays in the run and passing game. These are the players who consistently make the probowls because of their stats.

Marcell Dareus can play either, and Nick Fairley is an under tackle in case you are wondering.

This is not an absolute, as not all 4-3's are the same, and not all DT's play the same way. Not all 4-3's employ an under-tackle, for example, and not all 4-3's use a NT.

I am pretty sure you can decifer what the Broncos will look like by watching some Carolina and New Orleans sets from last season.

[omahaBroncoFan]

I disagree. Dareus will be able to get to the passer better than Fairley in the NFL as an UT. Fairley does not have the power or skills needed to be an effective every down elite player.

Dareus has a chance to be a respectable pass rusher, but I think ~5 sacks a year in the nfl would be pretty good for him. I think more likely he'll become a disrupter who allows teammates to make plays around him. With Fairley, the guy did net 12 sacks and 30+ solo tackles and often those numbers of actual production are the best thing to look at when analyzing if the guy will bust or not. He works out excellently, and while one can ding him a bit on lack of strength, and perhaps on using techniques sometimes that works better in college than pros- he got the job done in college and as far as the pass rushing ability of a DT is concerned, I think its much more likely that he does better than Dareus.

[broncos SB2010]

Dareus has a chance to be a respectable pass rusher, but I think ~5 sacks a year in the nfl would be pretty good for him. I think more likely he'll become a disrupter who allows teammates to make plays around him. With Fairley, the guy did net 12 sacks and 30+ solo tackles and often those numbers of actual production are the best thing to look at when analyzing if the guy will bust or not. He works out excellently, and while one can ding him a bit on lack of strength, and perhaps on using techniques sometimes that works better in college than pros- he got the job done in college and as far as the pass rushing ability of a DT is concerned, I think its much more likely that he does better than Dareus.

We will agree to disagree on this. I think Fairley will get manhandled by NFL interior Oline and will be an average starter at best.

[MindField]

I disagree. Dareus will be able to get to the passer better than Fairley in the NFL as an UT. Fairley does not have the power or skills needed to be an effective every down elite player.

Last year Suh was the top DT with McCoy coming in second. Suh is more like Dareus than Fairley while McCoy is more like Fairley than Dareus. Interior Dline players need to have enough power or good hand skills to go up against the interior OLine. Fairley has neither. Dareus has both. He will be much better in the middle of the Dline.

Just stop.

This where some of you sound ridiculous.

So you are going to sing the praises of a player in Dareus, who did not produce well last season at all, but becaue of his measureables, namely is bigger than expected size, and performance in shorts at the combine, you are convinced he will be the next great DT to come into the NFL?

I have a news flash for you, Dareus is NOT Suh, so if that is your comparison, you need to go back to the drawing board...also, McCoy was playing very well when he got injuured.

On the other hand, you completely dismiss what was hands-down the best defensive player in the country last season in Fairley, and make a stupid comment that he does not have the skill set to succeed in the NFL?? Unbelieveable.

Fairley is already a shade under 6'4" and is already at 298lbs, and is still just a baby. He will continue to grow as he matures physically, and will easily get to 310 plus.

Basically, you are talking about the next Kevin Williams in terms of size and skill set.

Fairley's quickness and pentrating skills are off the charts in any draft.

In terms of his character, he reminds me of Terrell Suggs, who some thought was a risk, but the truth is, Fairley has never been in any real trouble, and personally, I like a D-lineman with some nastiness to him.

Those of you who don't like Fairley should just stop making up reasons not to draft him.

You prefer Dareus? Fine, you are entitled to your opinion, but the knocks on Fairley I read around here are nothing but a bunch of BS.

[BroncoBryce]

Fairley can dominate in the nfl. If he wants to. If he takes the money and gets lazy he will be average.

[the0rangecrush]

Dareus has a chance to be a respectable pass rusher, but I think ~5 sacks a year in the nfl would be pretty good for him. I think more likely he'll become a disrupter who allows teammates to make plays around him. With Fairley, the guy did net 12 sacks and 30+ solo tackles and often those numbers of actual production are the best thing to look at when analyzing if the guy will bust or not. He works out excellently, and while one can ding him a bit on lack of strength, and perhaps on using techniques sometimes that works better in college than pros- he got the job done in college and as far as the pass rushing ability of a DT is concerned, I think its much more likely that he does better than Dareus.

I agree Fairley will be a better pass rusher and it's not even close. Dareus relies way to much on strength, he will get a slap in the face when he has guards that he can't overpower. Fairley will face his own challenges when he cant constantly beat players to a spot, that being said it's easier to teach a player to play with strength than be able to hit seams and gaps.

[THEdraftnik]

This is not an absolute, as not all 4-3's are the same, and not all DT's play the same way. Not all 4-3's employ an under-tackle, for example, and not all 4-3's use a NT.

I am pretty sure you can decifer what the Broncos will look like by watching some Carolina and New Orleans sets from last season.

Yes, in a later post, I clarified that different schemes have different roles.

What I posted was the general use of them.