Broncos Schedule Private Vist With Cam Newton April 18th in Denver

[Lukic]

There's negatives about EVERY prospect. Next year Andrew Luck will still have negatives.... Every prospect does. Tebow had a lot
more then most.

Throwing motion
release
accuracy
footwork
arm strength
spread offense
no under center experience

the only positives to Tebow as a prospect were his intanglibles.

Look at Gabbert's pro con list

ideal size
above average arm strength
quick release
good mechanics
great accuracy
high football iq
more mobile then you think
natural leader

for cons

below average numbers
bad footwork
tends to force throws
pocket awareness needs work
spread offense
no under center experience


You could also probably throw a few more on either side. But you can see why Gabbert is the #1 QB ofthe class... And some wanted Tebow to play TE

Are you actually being serious? I can't tell....

If you are, I'm not even going to bother arguing with you.

What you listed as Gabbert's pros are pros for Tebow as well lmao bar the mechanics and release.

So better mobility than you think is obviously a much better trait in a prospect than outstanding mobility.

You have got to be one of the worst, most biased and brainless football analysts against certain players.

Your bias against guys like Tebow or even Watt etc is amazing. You knock them down for certain reasons, they prove you wrong and yet all of the things which they possess, you say it's bad on their part and good for the others.

You really do have no idea, and I'm saying this in the most pleasant way I can.

[Project KSL]

He's polarizing. More polarizing than any prospect I've ever seen. People tend to run to the two extremes about him. And I think it's all because of the mechanics. He looks ugly throwing it. But it gets the job done. He has accuracy.

The dead giveaway that it's looks over results for some people is the "accuracy" tag on Tebow. He's an accurate passer. Jake Locker and Blaine Gabbert are examples of innaccurate passers.

ohh Gabbert is not an example. His accuracy is one of his strong points. Also, Seattle and Buffalo passed on him. Seattle
twice...The rest is pure speculation from both of us.

I get that you disagree with me on Tebow, I don't agree with you, but I respect your opinion because you actually have some things to support your arguement. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

[Jay3]

I don't know why I'm doing this in a Cam Newton thread.

I go months without discussing it, because it's all been said 1,000 times on both sides. But every now and then, I just feel up to it. :thumb:

[Jay3]

Like I said, if you want to see unbiased opinions on Tebow in Denver before it happened go back and look at my mock last year. I said Tebkw would be Josh's pick, and was RIPPED for it. We all want to believe people on our team are better then they are. But we have to be realistic,

He's polarizing. More polarizing than any prospect I've ever seen. People tend to run to the two extremes about him. And I think it's all because of the mechanics. He looks ugly throwing it. But it gets the job done. He has accuracy.

The dead giveaway that it's looks over results for some people is the "accuracy" tag on Tebow. He's an accurate passer. Jake Locker and Blaine Gabbert are examples of innaccurate passers.

[Jay3]

What we do known is nearly every team
you listed passed on him,,

No, you're mistaken. None of them picked before Tebow went except for the Browns taking Joe Haden at #7.

Otherwise, not one of them passed on him. It was an odd year where the teams looking for quarterbacks picked late -- kind of like Aaron Rodgers and Brady Quinn's year.

Minnesota immediately traded their pick after Tebow went. The Panthers got caught with their pants down and took Clausen. The Browns passed on McCoy in the second -- I think it was because Tebow was going to be their "project." And the Bills might not have traded up, but would have taken him with their regular pick in the top of the second.

[Project KSL]

That's not really accurate. First of all, most people are running from the "arm strength" knock and claiming they never said it. It was never a valid negative, and the real pros said he had an NFL arm. So already, you've incorporated some of the Kiper echo chamber stuff.

Throwing motion and release are basically one thing.

Footwork and no under center experience are basically the same thing. And Sam Bradford had very little experience under center and ran the spread.

On the positives, Tebow as a prospect had more than intangibles. He smoked the combine, has great size and strength, good downfield accuracy, and demonstrated incredible statistical efficiency against great competition.

It's a myth that only McD like Tebow. He was the second quarterback taken, and would have been if you ran that draft 10 times. He went right where Aaron Rodgers and Brady Quinn went -- second best, in the 20's, but some questions about him so no one traded up higher.

I guarantee the following teams would have taken Tebow with their next pick -- Minnesota, Buffalo, Panthers, and probably Cleveland. Maybe Seattle. McD traded to right where he needed to be to get ahead of a wave of teams looking at Tebow.

Okay, throwing motion and rease ARE NOT the same thing. The way a quarterback winds up the football and the point in which it is released are very different. Tebow has a very long wind up, which causes the ball to come out of his hand late. They're related, but they're different.

Tebow was very athletic, I will never take that away from him. But his Pro/Con list is very bottom heavy.

You can't guarantee anything related to Tebow. You can only assume. What we do known is nearly every team
you listed passed on him, and no one had a 1st round grade on him.
He wasn't even on some team's
boards. He wasn't a high regarded prospect, he wasn't supposed to go in the first, and had it not been or his "intangibles" he probably wouldn't
of even been drafted to be a QB. Like I said, if you want to see unbiased opinions on Tebow in Denver before it happened go back and look at my mock last year. I said Tebkw would be Josh's pick, and was RIPPED for it. We all want to believe people on our team are better then they are. But we have to be realistic,

[BF]

I agree, but someone who may appear 50x the passer of someone else prior to the draft doesnt mean they will be 50x the quarterback. Look at Tom Brady's scouting reports, they were downright awful.

I agree. What makes Brady special is his football intelligence. He knows how to check down his receivers and read defenses. This is where players like Tebow and Newton will struggle and need time to develope. Compared to TT and Newton, Brady is the least athletic of them.

[Jay3]

Tebow had a lot
more then most.

Throwing motion
release
accuracy
footwork
arm strength
spread offense
no under center experience

the only positives to Tebow as a prospect were his intanglibles.

That's not really accurate. First of all, most people are running from the "arm strength" knock and claiming they never said it. It was never a valid negative, and the real pros said he had an NFL arm. So already, you've incorporated some of the Kiper echo chamber stuff.

Throwing motion and release are basically one thing.

Footwork and no under center experience are basically the same thing. And Sam Bradford had very little experience under center and ran the spread.

On the positives, Tebow as a prospect had more than intangibles. He smoked the combine, has great size and strength, good downfield accuracy, and demonstrated incredible statistical efficiency against great competition.

It's a myth that only McD like Tebow. He was the second quarterback taken, and would have been if you ran that draft 10 times. He went right where Aaron Rodgers and Brady Quinn went -- second best, in the 20's, but some questions about him so no one traded up higher.

I guarantee the following teams would have taken Tebow with their next pick -- Minnesota, Buffalo, Panthers, and probably Cleveland. Maybe Seattle. McD traded to right where he needed to be to get ahead of a wave of teams looking at Tebow.

[Project KSL]

There's negatives about EVERY prospect. Next year Andrew Luck will still have negatives.... Every prospect does. Tebow had a lot
more then most.

Throwing motion
release
accuracy
footwork
arm strength
spread offense
no under center experience

the only positives to Tebow as a prospect were his intanglibles.

Look at Gabbert's pro con list

ideal size
above average arm strength
quick release
good mechanics
great accuracy
high football iq
more mobile then you think
natural leader

for cons

below average numbers
bad footwork
tends to force throws
pocket awareness needs work
spread offense
no under center experience


You could also probably throw a few more on either side. But you can see why Gabbert is the #1 QB ofthe class... And some wanted Tebow to play TE

[Jay3]

Tom Brady is THE MAJOR EXCEPTION. Which is why his story is so amazing. That stuff nearly NEVER happens. Scouts are right mote often then not, which are why they have the jobs they have.

That's not right. The quarterback position is notoriously hard to evaluate, the hardest position of all.

They get it wrong on a lot of highly rated ones, and some good ones totally get underrated.

Malcolm Gladwell wrote an excellent article analyzing this phenomenon.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/12/15/081215fa_fact_gladwell

[bigtimebronco]

Tom Brady is THE MAJOR EXCEPTION. Which is why his story is so amazing. That stuff nearly NEVER happens. Scouts are right mote often then not, which are why they have the jobs they have.

Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun... Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws... Seems more comfortable in the short/intermediate passing attack...Does not possess the ideal height you look for in a pro passer, though his ability to scan the field helps him compensate in this area...Will improvise and run when the passing lanes are clogged, but tends to run through defenders rather than trying to avoid them to prevent unnecessary punishment.

Besides the size concerns he sounds a little like Tebow huh? That was said about Drew Brees

[Project KSL]

I agree, but someone who may appear 50x the passer of someone else prior to the draft doesnt mean they will be 50x the quarterback. Look at Tom Brady's scouting reports, they were downright awful.

Tom Brady is THE MAJOR EXCEPTION. Which is why his story is so amazing. That stuff nearly NEVER happens. Scouts are right mote often then not, which are why they have the jobs they have.

[bigtimebronco]

People also raved about the arms of Vick, Favre, Big Ben, McNabb, Cutler...... That could go both ways.

I agree, but someone who may appear 50x the passer of someone else prior to the draft doesnt mean they will be 50x the quarterback. Look at Tom Brady's scouting reports, they were downright awful.

[Project KSL]

People raved about the arms of Russell, Leaf, Smith, Clausen and so many others coming into the draft. Look where they ended up.

People also raved about the arms of Vick, Favre, Big Ben, McNabb, Cutler...... That could go both ways.

[Project KSL]

I beleive a few people actually did have a first round grade down. Not a high first but a 20-65 guy. Apparently if the broncos didnt trade up for him there were a few other teams that would of according to mark schlereth.

There was the rumor that the Bills were attempting to
move up an take him. Which I do believe. However taking a player in the 1st, and that player having a "1st round grade"
is entirely different. We were pressured to trade up to secure him. Anyone who covers the draft had him AT BEST a 2nd round prospect. This year any number of 2nd round QB's will go in the first. But they won't have a "first round grade" they'll just be chosen in the first,


Like I said, I'm not a Gabbert fan. He struggled a lot, in a lot of games. But he has what you can't coach, the size and the arm strength.